How do I get funded?
by Bhargav P · in General Discussion · 04/11/2009 (12:20 pm) · 40 replies
Me and my friend are starting a gaming studio. I cannot guarentee that our game will be the next hit... Then why would anyone fund me? What If I cannot make enough money? I heard about sponsoring.. Where I advertise for them and I don't pay them a penny. How can I get sponsors, who will pay me to start my small company to pay all the costs of programmers, modelers etc? Should I learn programming and just get the art part done by others since it will save allot of money? I really need a high budget for an MMO.
About the author
#22
makeitbigingames.com/2006/06/five-realistic-steps-to-starting-a-game-development...
-Jeff Tunnell, Co-Founder of GarageGames
Now at pushbuttonlabs.com
04/14/2009 (10:19 am)
Bhargav- On my blog, Make It Big In Games, I have written a lot about how to get into the game business. Here is one article to get you started:makeitbigingames.com/2006/06/five-realistic-steps-to-starting-a-game-development...
-Jeff Tunnell, Co-Founder of GarageGames
Now at pushbuttonlabs.com
#23
Good call. It seems to be easier for artists to find programmer partners than the other way around.
04/14/2009 (6:31 pm)
>I am learning Maya and Zbrush. Good call. It seems to be easier for artists to find programmer partners than the other way around.
#24
50 Million is a lot of money!
Chris
EDIT: I didn't realize that Jeff was at Dynamix prior to co-founding GG. That makes sense as to the whole licensing the engine and how that all came about.
04/14/2009 (7:32 pm)
I would like to know how GG got funded 50 Mil to be able to buy an engine and it's license that allowed them to go on creating newer versions of TGE, which then became TGEA and now heading towards T3D.50 Million is a lot of money!
Chris
EDIT: I didn't realize that Jeff was at Dynamix prior to co-founding GG. That makes sense as to the whole licensing the engine and how that all came about.
#25
Not a good call...
With Maya running around $4000.00, and zbrush running.. what.. $600.00.. why would you, who is struggling to even buy the engine pay that? I won't even ask the most obvious question.. how (I don't want to know).
There are several low cost alternatives that will do pretty much anything you would want. Houdini, Blender, wings3d, milkshape, and several more should all be somewhat in your price range.
With this engine, you can create difs. You can use contructor, or Radiant.. or other similar programs.. most of which are free.
Also.. You can use gimpshop for textures/etc and thats free as well.
There are alot of alternatives to you if you look hard enough. If I can be of any assistance helping you track things down, or provide information let me know.
good luck.
04/14/2009 (10:38 pm)
Quote:I am learning Maya and Zbrush
Not a good call...
With Maya running around $4000.00, and zbrush running.. what.. $600.00.. why would you, who is struggling to even buy the engine pay that? I won't even ask the most obvious question.. how (I don't want to know).
There are several low cost alternatives that will do pretty much anything you would want. Houdini, Blender, wings3d, milkshape, and several more should all be somewhat in your price range.
With this engine, you can create difs. You can use contructor, or Radiant.. or other similar programs.. most of which are free.
Also.. You can use gimpshop for textures/etc and thats free as well.
There are alot of alternatives to you if you look hard enough. If I can be of any assistance helping you track things down, or provide information let me know.
good luck.
#26
04/15/2009 (5:39 am)
I am using trial maya. Zbrush, is far away. I am going with Maya because I have lots of tutorials lying around since I was doing VFX before in after effects. I needed to learn some 3d. I am going to freelance to make up the money for all the software and engine costs.
#27
My advise would be to use something free or cheaper and learn. It will allow you to spread your money around better in the interum. After you have the skills, then go and try out some of the higher end tools, since once you know how, you can use most any tool with little disruption.
good luck
04/15/2009 (9:33 am)
understood.. all I'm saying is that if, like most of us you are on a limited budget, there are other options that are either free or very cheap that will do the exact same thing. My advise would be to use something free or cheaper and learn. It will allow you to spread your money around better in the interum. After you have the skills, then go and try out some of the higher end tools, since once you know how, you can use most any tool with little disruption.
good luck
#28
When developing a game solo or with a small team, most of your money goes into tools and resources. Tools -> Programs. Resources -> books.
As a teen, you'll never have more disposable income. You can't afford to pay a programmer or other artist, so it's not like that's even an option, So where else can you spend your money? You might as well get a good art tool. and like someone above said, you've got time as an abundant resource.
If you save that money and use it on other things - SFX, voice acting, BGM, you end up with a 1 time resource. Some places require you to purchase additional copies if you want to use their sounds etc. for a different project.
If you buy a modelling app or other 3d tool, you'll have it forever and can use it to build any art assets for any number of games you decide to make. It's like buying a cow instead of 4 gallons of milk - Yes it costs more, but you get a lot more out of it and it's not a single shot deal. Adults don't buy cows because of the time and money investment :)
That's my opinion at least.
04/15/2009 (10:34 am)
I think Andrew is wrong on the "learn a cheap free program".When developing a game solo or with a small team, most of your money goes into tools and resources. Tools -> Programs. Resources -> books.
As a teen, you'll never have more disposable income. You can't afford to pay a programmer or other artist, so it's not like that's even an option, So where else can you spend your money? You might as well get a good art tool. and like someone above said, you've got time as an abundant resource.
If you save that money and use it on other things - SFX, voice acting, BGM, you end up with a 1 time resource. Some places require you to purchase additional copies if you want to use their sounds etc. for a different project.
If you buy a modelling app or other 3d tool, you'll have it forever and can use it to build any art assets for any number of games you decide to make. It's like buying a cow instead of 4 gallons of milk - Yes it costs more, but you get a lot more out of it and it's not a single shot deal. Adults don't buy cows because of the time and money investment :)
That's my opinion at least.
#29
So.. he should wait 6 months to a year (based on minimum wage, and based on him not spending any of it on anything else) to buy Maya and since the trial for maya is for 30 days.. wait to learn modeling instead of using a free or cheaper app?
Once you know how to model, you can model in most any app. I guess it boils down to how valuable your time is. If your willing to wait that long to learn so you can use a specific app, thats fine. But to me it seems like a huge waste of time where you could be learning with something cheap (thats does the exact same thing needed) gaining valuable knowledge while you sock away money for a more expensive tool.. or engine.. or.. whatever you may need.
But hey.. I have no stake in this. Like Daniel, this is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.
04/15/2009 (10:52 am)
@DanielSo.. he should wait 6 months to a year (based on minimum wage, and based on him not spending any of it on anything else) to buy Maya and since the trial for maya is for 30 days.. wait to learn modeling instead of using a free or cheaper app?
Once you know how to model, you can model in most any app. I guess it boils down to how valuable your time is. If your willing to wait that long to learn so you can use a specific app, thats fine. But to me it seems like a huge waste of time where you could be learning with something cheap (thats does the exact same thing needed) gaining valuable knowledge while you sock away money for a more expensive tool.. or engine.. or.. whatever you may need.
But hey.. I have no stake in this. Like Daniel, this is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.
#30
...and yet, as plentiful as they may be, another opinion.
P.S.
...and why don't these 3d modeling apps come in packages or with an option to install certain features? I mean c'mon, if I download Blender to use for TGE, do I really need the Blender game engine? Or If I'm a 3d modeler, do I really need the Blender game engine or the animation features (yes, I'm using Blender)?
04/15/2009 (11:37 am)
I'd suggest using a cheap/free modeler to start with (Blender, MilkShape, Anim8tor, etc) just to learn what tools you will and will not use for this type of 3d modeling. After that, if you feel you need ALL the tools in the more expensive modelers, spend away. I think you'll find that with the more expensive modelers, you get alot more than you need for modeling/animating game meshes and if you're a beginner using one of those feature-rich apps, you'll sort of feel like the guy/gal that had to search the haystack just to find out what a needle was....and yet, as plentiful as they may be, another opinion.
P.S.
...and why don't these 3d modeling apps come in packages or with an option to install certain features? I mean c'mon, if I download Blender to use for TGE, do I really need the Blender game engine? Or If I'm a 3d modeler, do I really need the Blender game engine or the animation features (yes, I'm using Blender)?
#31
Personally I think this is a pretty raw deal since you are talking about a low risk with potential big return with regards to Indie games, but that's how the market is going now.
04/15/2009 (12:04 pm)
One of the big changes we have seen lately is that in order to get any sort of funding now you pretty much need to complete a functional game prototype. With the stock market volatility making their virtual wealth fluctuate, you are pretty hard pressed to find a single publisher or investor to fund game's anymore solely from the concept or idea alone. They want to see it playable and in front of them.Personally I think this is a pretty raw deal since you are talking about a low risk with potential big return with regards to Indie games, but that's how the market is going now.
#32
And in comparison to other industries, the start costs ain't bad at all...unless its an MMO.
04/15/2009 (1:28 pm)
Quote:Agreed.
...low risk with potential big return with regards to Indie games...
And in comparison to other industries, the start costs ain't bad at all...unless its an MMO.
#33
04/15/2009 (1:28 pm)
@Logan : Yeah I know what you mean. Thats the first thing I learned. I won't get any funding if I go with a 400 page binder and show how the game "will" be. I shall go with a prototype and show them how it looks and works. If they like it, they fund it. That pretty much sucks. Because making a prototype will take up allot of resources. And that prototype will be discarded afterwards (Unless you make it one of the levels). Thats really not my cup of tea! But I guess thats the way the world spins now.
#34
Go to your investors with a business plan which details how you plan to market the game, how it fits into the market and what your expenses will be monthly. Are you gonna do XBOX 360? Thats a whole other game right their cause Dev kits are not free. Studios have to be secure locations so that makes it to where you have to lease a building if you wanna make console titles. Theres insurance and unemployment insurance and utilities and tons of hidden expenses that will come your way. Not to mention the cost of software, hardware and paying your staff! Holy crap! I have done the research and thought this through... I plan to start my own and I am starting very small. I plan to start with about 5 people and some very simple games. I am hoping to take advantage of some financial incentives that my state offers to investors. Look into things like that, it will help you. DL out.
04/15/2009 (2:05 pm)
This is the best advice I can give you. Money talks and everything else walks. Now I know that sounds simple but let me explain. When you approach an investor no matter who they are or what they did to become rich enough to have surplus cash, they are only interested in one thing, "How am I going to make money from this?" Now with that in mind you need to do some research and find out everything you can about Game Design and that type of business. You may be a great artist, but can you run a business? One thing is not the other. You can hold out your arms, stand on the runway and make really Loud noises but Im sure that you wont magically become a 747. Learn all you can thats industry standard, which would include Max, Maya, zbrush, Mudbox, Photoshop and in some cases XSI. Its comming on so why not. I wouldnt suggest free stuff because companies dont care that you can model they want you to be able to model in those packages..Oh yeah it would be real smart to either get a internship or a job at a studio before you start your own. Its a great learning experience that you can get from sitting at your job or at home in front of your PC. It will teach you exactly what not to do in this business, trust me I have learned from some really nice people who made horrible business choices. Go to your investors with a business plan which details how you plan to market the game, how it fits into the market and what your expenses will be monthly. Are you gonna do XBOX 360? Thats a whole other game right their cause Dev kits are not free. Studios have to be secure locations so that makes it to where you have to lease a building if you wanna make console titles. Theres insurance and unemployment insurance and utilities and tons of hidden expenses that will come your way. Not to mention the cost of software, hardware and paying your staff! Holy crap! I have done the research and thought this through... I plan to start my own and I am starting very small. I plan to start with about 5 people and some very simple games. I am hoping to take advantage of some financial incentives that my state offers to investors. Look into things like that, it will help you. DL out.
#35
As far as Maya goes, it is a great 3D modeling/animating program, but it has one of the steepest learning curves. You also probably wouldn't use half the features in it for game art production.
3DS Max is an easier tool to learn for beginners and is still a very high-end product (IMHO at least).
zBrush is a different beast all together, as it is more of a 3D sculpting program than a traditional 3D modeler (it's like working with digital clay).
I personally have never used Blender for more than 10 minutes. Since I didn't learn on it, it always seemed backwards to me, lol.
Milkshape is a good cheap alternative. Obviously not as powerful as the high-end tools but well worth the price.
Luxology Modo I've also heard is a good 3D tool, but I have not personally used it (cost in the mid to upper hundreds... better than thousands at least).
The 3D tool offered here, Houdini, is suppose to be good as well and probably a very capable learning platform for beginners.
Like DarqueLord stated, learn as much as you can, but take it one step at a time.
One last thing... game producers hear hundreds of pitches. If you can't sum up your game in one or two sentences, they probably don't want to hear it. That's not to say you need to explain everything, but the main premise of your game that makes it different or unique should be able to be summed up in those 2 sentences. Classic example would be something like Tomb Raider... A busty female archeologist, armed with guns and a grappling hook, goes exploring for treasure in ancient cities and locations.
04/15/2009 (2:37 pm)
Don't forget that most high-end applications, including Maya and the entire Adobe catalog, offer student pricing for people like Bhargav. The theory is that if students learn their products, they'll purchase, or encourage companies to purchase, them when they graduate.As far as Maya goes, it is a great 3D modeling/animating program, but it has one of the steepest learning curves. You also probably wouldn't use half the features in it for game art production.
3DS Max is an easier tool to learn for beginners and is still a very high-end product (IMHO at least).
zBrush is a different beast all together, as it is more of a 3D sculpting program than a traditional 3D modeler (it's like working with digital clay).
I personally have never used Blender for more than 10 minutes. Since I didn't learn on it, it always seemed backwards to me, lol.
Milkshape is a good cheap alternative. Obviously not as powerful as the high-end tools but well worth the price.
Luxology Modo I've also heard is a good 3D tool, but I have not personally used it (cost in the mid to upper hundreds... better than thousands at least).
The 3D tool offered here, Houdini, is suppose to be good as well and probably a very capable learning platform for beginners.
Like DarqueLord stated, learn as much as you can, but take it one step at a time.
One last thing... game producers hear hundreds of pitches. If you can't sum up your game in one or two sentences, they probably don't want to hear it. That's not to say you need to explain everything, but the main premise of your game that makes it different or unique should be able to be summed up in those 2 sentences. Classic example would be something like Tomb Raider... A busty female archeologist, armed with guns and a grappling hook, goes exploring for treasure in ancient cities and locations.
#36
04/16/2009 (1:01 pm)
Wow thanks darkloard and D.L. You guys helped me out. I knew some of the stuff you told me. The business side, I am really well aware of. We'll the part when I goto a publisher and show them what we are going to do. They don't have time to hear this kind of crap, they don't care if its your huge dream. They care about the money they get. And we have to show that. I will plan everything out. There is just too much to condense for me. I need a job, have to focus, exercise, Learn Maya, Play games, do homework, play sports outside to stay healthy (and have fun most of all). Too much coming at me. 
#37
I have made a couple dozen games, each much better than the last. I have not published them because I do not feel that you need money to make a good game. I am making my first published game at the moment for the iPhone/iPod Touch.
I have a dream MMO too. Infact, I bet everyone on this site has some kind of dream game. I know I will not be able to create my dream game for another 15+ years, but everytime I make a new idea, I right it on another piece of paper, plan out how to execute my idea through script/code (not the entire code), and I place it in my Big Binder of my Dream MMO that I will create Someday (BBOMDMTIWCS).
I am currently 14, and even though I have had 5 years of programming experience, I know I am most likely not as talented as someone who went to college for one year. So yes, it is difficult. But if you are 15 or 16, you will not be able to finish this MMO for a long time. Even if you start it now.
I also know that if you are a teen, you will not get sponsors or investors or any source of income. They will laugh, they will mock, and they will tease. But they will not if you get that first game out and create a prototype.
04/23/2009 (5:13 pm)
Look, I don't want to be rude, but if your a teen? Suck it up... I started learning C++ when I was eight. Eight!. I still haven't developed the skills needed to make a AAA game, and I do not expect to get them until I finish college. And I am not even in highschool yet...I have made a couple dozen games, each much better than the last. I have not published them because I do not feel that you need money to make a good game. I am making my first published game at the moment for the iPhone/iPod Touch.
I have a dream MMO too. Infact, I bet everyone on this site has some kind of dream game. I know I will not be able to create my dream game for another 15+ years, but everytime I make a new idea, I right it on another piece of paper, plan out how to execute my idea through script/code (not the entire code), and I place it in my Big Binder of my Dream MMO that I will create Someday (BBOMDMTIWCS).
I am currently 14, and even though I have had 5 years of programming experience, I know I am most likely not as talented as someone who went to college for one year. So yes, it is difficult. But if you are 15 or 16, you will not be able to finish this MMO for a long time. Even if you start it now.
I also know that if you are a teen, you will not get sponsors or investors or any source of income. They will laugh, they will mock, and they will tease. But they will not if you get that first game out and create a prototype.
#38
04/23/2009 (7:50 pm)
@Tyler : Don't want to sound mean or anything. But you are a programmer. Im interested in the graphics field. I've already started learning. And I am swiftly learning everything. Did not get stuck in this. I've used Maya before. I've made my own next-gen character last year aswell. Not hard to learn. I agree when you said that sponsors will "laugh". But their jaws will drop if you bang out a game of your own. What I would do is, make an okay game and release it online for download. DO NOT PUBLISH IT! This will allow you to stay out of all the legals and rights and all that bullsh*t. Releasing it online will also get you some online Hype. I know some marketing techniques. I also have some friends in the industry who will help me get more hype from their 33,000 plus subscribers. That's just one of my tactic. xD 
#39
Im not saying you shoulding give it away for free, just that it doesn't free you from getting involved in commercial licensing. You still need to understand the licensing for any products/libraries you use.
Also, licensing isn't 'bullsh*t', its what allows most of us to get paid.
04/27/2009 (2:59 pm)
Releasing a game online for free download is essentially the same as publishing it and charging $0.00, you still need to be concerned with the legals. Im not saying you shoulding give it away for free, just that it doesn't free you from getting involved in commercial licensing. You still need to understand the licensing for any products/libraries you use.
Also, licensing isn't 'bullsh*t', its what allows most of us to get paid.
#40
If you have more credibility, you will get through allot of problems indie's have. This is what I learned from readying some business books. Also, don't go ahead with a 400 page 'Whats in my game' book to show the publishers. They want to see the work you can do in a game demo to get the feel of how the game is.
04/28/2009 (4:55 am)
Matthew, I agree with you. I am not saying licensing is Bullsh*t. I mean going through all the publishers and showing them all your stuff is bullsh*t. There are allot of chances for us to get rejected. Thats why, we should advertise via youtube (gameplay etc) and then have download on internet via your site. This will get you allot of hits since the users are using OUR site to download off of. This will increase the amount of $$ one gets via ads. Most developer sites do not use ads. But they will get them started pretty nicely. That is, if they blend their ads properly. If one has game online, they don't always have to give downloads for free. They can charge $5-$10. Thats what I've been noticing most indie's do. Once thats going well, you should be going to the publishers' doors for your next project. If you have more credibility, you will get through allot of problems indie's have. This is what I learned from readying some business books. Also, don't go ahead with a 400 page 'Whats in my game' book to show the publishers. They want to see the work you can do in a game demo to get the feel of how the game is.
Bhargav P