TGEA (1.7.1 / 1.8.0) not working on Vista64
by Marc Dreamora Schaerer · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 01/22/2009 (11:49 pm) · 15 replies
I'm having some serious problems with TGEA here on my main machine.
I can compile all the sources and also can start the applications without any problem but the visuals never appear. I must kill them through the process manager.
My System Specs:
CPU: Core i7 920
GPU: GTX 280 1GB + 8800GTS 640MB SC assigned as PhysX processor through NVIDIA 181.2 drivers
RAM: 6GB
OS: Vista64 Business
DX SDK: Nov 08
My assumption is that TGEA is having some serious problems detecting the right GPU and especially the correct screen to render to. The physX support in the current driver generates virtual screens which are used as physx calculation targets but can not be used for rendering.
The setup works, all other 3D engines I own do not have a problem, nor do games have a problem. Even TGB / iTGB works.
Its only TGEA 1.7.1 and 1.8.0
I would have tested if it has to do with the DX9 driver, but for that, the annoying bug with "I am the coolest and smartest engine, who cares what driver you set, I will use DX9 - you have no right to see how it would look for others" that was introduced together with the D3D8 GFX driver, would have been fixed for 1.8.0 ...
EDIT: Just in case thats of interest: no it does also not play any sound.
It happens with my built ones and the ones that come prebuilt.
Debug does not bring up any error
I can compile all the sources and also can start the applications without any problem but the visuals never appear. I must kill them through the process manager.
My System Specs:
CPU: Core i7 920
GPU: GTX 280 1GB + 8800GTS 640MB SC assigned as PhysX processor through NVIDIA 181.2 drivers
RAM: 6GB
OS: Vista64 Business
DX SDK: Nov 08
My assumption is that TGEA is having some serious problems detecting the right GPU and especially the correct screen to render to. The physX support in the current driver generates virtual screens which are used as physx calculation targets but can not be used for rendering.
The setup works, all other 3D engines I own do not have a problem, nor do games have a problem. Even TGB / iTGB works.
Its only TGEA 1.7.1 and 1.8.0
I would have tested if it has to do with the DX9 driver, but for that, the annoying bug with "I am the coolest and smartest engine, who cares what driver you set, I will use DX9 - you have no right to see how it would look for others" that was introduced together with the D3D8 GFX driver, would have been fixed for 1.8.0 ...
EDIT: Just in case thats of interest: no it does also not play any sound.
It happens with my built ones and the ones that come prebuilt.
Debug does not bring up any error
About the author
#2
Edit: Although as Caylo notes, you should check the console.log and see if there's anything in there that would explain the issue.
01/23/2009 (1:21 am)
Are you using Torsion? Torsion inserts a line into one of the .cs files in order to connect with the telnet debugger. Sometimes this gets jacked up and left in there and can cause this problem (Torque never really starts, process opens and just stalls forever). I may be misremembering the details, though. I *think* the line it inserts is in the root main.cs, but I'm not sure. If you're using Torsion though, check that file or search for dbgTorsion or something like that (can't recall the command it uses).Edit: Although as Caylo notes, you should check the console.log and see if there's anything in there that would explain the issue.
#3
There is no log to check, as the executables deadlocks at the beginning.
if I had a log I likely wouldn't need to ask here ...
took card out and disabled hyperthreading on my i7, still does not show any visuals
Any further idea why TGEA is dead but no other games?
01/23/2009 (2:06 am)
I am not using torsion, for that the game exe on its own first would have to run at all.There is no log to check, as the executables deadlocks at the beginning.
if I had a log I likely wouldn't need to ask here ...
took card out and disabled hyperthreading on my i7, still does not show any visuals
Any further idea why TGEA is dead but no other games?
#4
01/23/2009 (3:03 am)
Could this be related to the fix Rene posted for me? I did get a crash and not an endless-loop, though. Check my post history.
#5
Its the OpenAL stuff thats freezing it.
The check
if( ALFunction.alcIsExtensionPresent(NULL; "ALC_ENUMERATION_EXT")) ind aldlist.cpp, ALDeviceList::ALDeviceList never returns
And for all those looking for the solution:
Go to c:windowssyswow64 and replace that OpenAL32.dll there with the current one!
Do the same for the OpenAL32.dll that Torque is providing
the interesting part: It locks Torque before it even is working, as a breakpoint right before StandardMainLoop::Init is never reached
I hope this helps others and I REALLY EXPECT that the 1.8.1 installer takes 64Bit OS finally into consideration and perhaps starts using the current versions of DLL as well :)
Just putting it into the same folder is not cutting it till there is a 64bit version
01/23/2009 (10:12 am)
That fix did not make a difference.Its the OpenAL stuff thats freezing it.
The check
if( ALFunction.alcIsExtensionPresent(NULL; "ALC_ENUMERATION_EXT")) ind aldlist.cpp, ALDeviceList::ALDeviceList never returns
And for all those looking for the solution:
Go to c:windowssyswow64 and replace that OpenAL32.dll there with the current one!
Do the same for the OpenAL32.dll that Torque is providing
the interesting part: It locks Torque before it even is working, as a breakpoint right before StandardMainLoop::Init is never reached
I hope this helps others and I REALLY EXPECT that the 1.8.1 installer takes 64Bit OS finally into consideration and perhaps starts using the current versions of DLL as well :)
Just putting it into the same folder is not cutting it till there is a 64bit version
#6
01/29/2009 (3:46 pm)
So I looked into this, and TGEA 1.8.0 is using the most recent OpenAL32.dll (6.14.357.22). This leaves me at a bit of a loss as to what exactly should be updated.
#7
But the size of the two isn't.
The one I'm using (straight from oalinst's installation in c:\windows\system32) is 130kb, while the one that is distributed with TGEA 1.8 is only 108kb
So whatever happened / was done to it, it affected the DLL in a hacky way as it seems and actually broke it.
01/30/2009 (6:11 am)
You are right, the version of the two actually is the same.But the size of the two isn't.
The one I'm using (straight from oalinst's installation in c:\windows\system32) is 130kb, while the one that is distributed with TGEA 1.8 is only 108kb
So whatever happened / was done to it, it affected the DLL in a hacky way as it seems and actually broke it.
#8
01/30/2009 (9:30 am)
I bet we UPX'd it.
#9
01/30/2009 (1:45 pm)
Actually, the OpenAL32.dll that came straight from my oalinst installation is also 108kb. Can you upload yours so I can take a look at it and make sure it works fine on 32bit XP/Vista?
#10
edit: and it is the same dll that came with my installtion of TGEa
01/30/2009 (2:34 pm)
Quote:the OpenAL32.dll that came straight from my oalinst installation is also 108kbSo was mine, I had to update the old dll for TGE + CSK (which was 84kb) due to a sound bug with it (the CSK) & Vista computers. Has OpenAl been updated since Summer 2007?
edit: and it is the same dll that came with my installtion of TGEa
#11
The problem is a two part problem:
1. The DLL that comes with TGEA is too small. Likely not Windows 64bit compatible (or at least Vista64 )
I've reinstalled it now several times, the outcome is always the same: The installer creates a file of size 130kb, size on disk 132kb (just to ensure that this is not missinterpreted)
2. Without manual copy, the DLL in WindowsSySWOW64 (does not exist on 32bit logically) is not there / the wrong one.
It is needed that this one replaced with the 130kb file from the installer (the installer will place it into WindowsSystem32)
PS: No, I've no idea what is really going wrong there, but without the replacement, the Torque will not even reach the StandardMainLoop Init call as OpenAL gets into an endlessloop when trying to detect the device
01/30/2009 (3:55 pm)
OKThe problem is a two part problem:
1. The DLL that comes with TGEA is too small. Likely not Windows 64bit compatible (or at least Vista64 )
I've reinstalled it now several times, the outcome is always the same: The installer creates a file of size 130kb, size on disk 132kb (just to ensure that this is not missinterpreted)
2. Without manual copy, the DLL in WindowsSySWOW64 (does not exist on 32bit logically) is not there / the wrong one.
It is needed that this one replaced with the 130kb file from the installer (the installer will place it into WindowsSystem32)
PS: No, I've no idea what is really going wrong there, but without the replacement, the Torque will not even reach the StandardMainLoop Init call as OpenAL gets into an endlessloop when trying to detect the device
#12
Further, in our own testing we didn't run into the issues you described on Vista64. I suspect there is something more going on, but we're not going to be able to address it in 1.8.1.
01/30/2009 (3:58 pm)
Unfortunately the OpenAL32.dll created by the installer on Vista64 is not compatible with 32 bit systems. Besides, TGEA is a 32 bit process, so it shouldn't have any issues loading the 32 bit dll, even if its running on a 64 bit system.Further, in our own testing we didn't run into the issues you described on Vista64. I suspect there is something more going on, but we're not going to be able to address it in 1.8.1.
#13
Shouldn't be much of work, should it?
This here is Vista64 Business, Admin Account UAC Disabled, DEP restricted to the important components if this makes any difference on a Core i7 Board, Intel X58 Chipset with Realtek HD 8 Channel Audio and the 5.1 output connected to my graphic card which hands it out over HDMI.
I for one have the solution and as long as this thread is somewhere included in the final changelog for the minority experiencing the problems, I don't see a problem there.
I fully understand that not everything can be adressed and as main programmer of a game tech I even more understand it with non reproducable problems.
Its the only realistic thing.
Thank you for trying it. Very appreciated
01/30/2009 (4:21 pm)
I didn't expect it to be compatible. But I don't see the problem there, as the installer can just install the right one for the OS.Shouldn't be much of work, should it?
This here is Vista64 Business, Admin Account UAC Disabled, DEP restricted to the important components if this makes any difference on a Core i7 Board, Intel X58 Chipset with Realtek HD 8 Channel Audio and the 5.1 output connected to my graphic card which hands it out over HDMI.
I for one have the solution and as long as this thread is somewhere included in the final changelog for the minority experiencing the problems, I don't see a problem there.
I fully understand that not everything can be adressed and as main programmer of a game tech I even more understand it with non reproducable problems.
Its the only realistic thing.
Thank you for trying it. Very appreciated
#14
01/30/2009 (4:25 pm)
For Torque 3D we'll probably have the installer try and address it. As it stands now our "installer" is little more than a glorified zip file, and without significant changes isn't going to handle it. We'll look into putting some information in the download for people experience this issue though.
#15
I've been having the same issue as you. I've contacted the devsupport at creatives openal website and I've been trying to figure this out with him. According to him, the 2 openal files are different sizes because one is for the 32 bit and the other is for 64 bit even though they install in the reverse directories aka the 64 bit is installed into System32 and the 32 bit one is installed into SysWoW64.
The problem with this technique is you are getting rid of the one dll file and then other programs have issues, while Torque is fixed.
I've been having a similar issue while trying to get an openal plugin installed for winamp. But I haven't been able to solve it by following this process.
So either it's something about our computers or something bigger than that.
03/15/2009 (1:34 pm)
Hi Marc,I've been having the same issue as you. I've contacted the devsupport at creatives openal website and I've been trying to figure this out with him. According to him, the 2 openal files are different sizes because one is for the 32 bit and the other is for 64 bit even though they install in the reverse directories aka the 64 bit is installed into System32 and the 32 bit one is installed into SysWoW64.
The problem with this technique is you are getting rid of the one dll file and then other programs have issues, while Torque is fixed.
I've been having a similar issue while trying to get an openal plugin installed for winamp. But I haven't been able to solve it by following this process.
So either it's something about our computers or something bigger than that.
Torque 3D Owner Caylo Gypsyblood
My system have three video cards, two GF8500's and one GF8200. I have 2 screens on both the 8200 and one of the 8500 card, and one screen (my primary render device) on the other 8500. This configuration works fine with each TGEA version- who one see the primary video card. I dont have PhysX.
What do your Console.log report as finding for render device?
mine for comparison if that a help:
Also for sound:
Hope that can help.