An alternate TGB option for students?
by jydog · in Torque Game Builder · 08/03/2008 (12:25 pm) · 13 replies
I would like to start a game development users group here in western Michigan. It would be of general interest involving basically all aspects of game development. I believe TGB is the game engine platform to get started with as I own and like TGB Pro.
My son and his friend (in high school) and my daughter (in college) are very interested in joining in. I anticipate other students being interested as well.
But as GG does not appear to have a student friendly option, I feel the group would move away from TGB into more affordable albeit less capable engines.
Any thoughts?
Randy
My son and his friend (in high school) and my daughter (in college) are very interested in joining in. I anticipate other students being interested as well.
But as GG does not appear to have a student friendly option, I feel the group would move away from TGB into more affordable albeit less capable engines.
Any thoughts?
Randy
#2
$100 is the entry point for indie developers - those that want to make money on it [ me included. ; ) ].
Thoughts for GG?
08/03/2008 (2:29 pm)
Yes I want to use TGB. The point is GG needs a more student friendly option. They feel $100 is fine for students needs. I don't think so. How many high school ( or college ) students spend that on a game engine? Games, yes. Engines, ???$100 is the entry point for indie developers - those that want to make money on it [ me included. ; ) ].
Thoughts for GG?
#3
08/03/2008 (2:43 pm)
I know of a few schools using TGE (and possibly TGB, after some evangelising). In Norway, the $100 entry is less than most school books cost from high-school level and up. Even with the exchange rate from five years back.
#4
08/03/2008 (2:53 pm)
I believe its a fine price even for students. Honestly, if the students don't want to pay $100 for a game engine (and an awesome one at that) maybe they should choose something easier. The sooner they learn game development is hard work that actually will take an investment of time and money the better. 
#5
(541) 345-3040 ext#123."
from
www.garagegames.com/solutions/education/
08/03/2008 (8:41 pm)
"Special Educational Pricing available for schools purchasing 10 or more seats. For details on how to place orders contact our educational sales department at education@garagegames.com or call:(541) 345-3040 ext#123."
from
www.garagegames.com/solutions/education/
#6
I believe $100 is a super price, for anyone but high school students and possibly college. As I mentioned, my son and daughter are interested. I have bought lots of "tools" they need or I would like them to use. Many they have not felt a need to use. That would be $200 I would need to spend to see if they might be interested in continuing. Even I would be very hesitant to get them a license. And I own TGB Pro.
The TGB demo timeframe is 30 days, right? If it was 4-6 months that possibly could be long enough to get them interested long term.
Maybe a slightly crippled version for no charge? Or a watermark? An old version?
A $20 1 year license? With it applied to the full version?
The "Special Educational Pricing" is not designed for individual students.
Maybe it's been shown to not work, but I would think getting more people (students) working with your product would increase sales, thus benefitting GG too.
08/06/2008 (10:45 am)
I just don't agree. I believe $100 is a super price, for anyone but high school students and possibly college. As I mentioned, my son and daughter are interested. I have bought lots of "tools" they need or I would like them to use. Many they have not felt a need to use. That would be $200 I would need to spend to see if they might be interested in continuing. Even I would be very hesitant to get them a license. And I own TGB Pro.
The TGB demo timeframe is 30 days, right? If it was 4-6 months that possibly could be long enough to get them interested long term.
Maybe a slightly crippled version for no charge? Or a watermark? An old version?
A $20 1 year license? With it applied to the full version?
The "Special Educational Pricing" is not designed for individual students.
Maybe it's been shown to not work, but I would think getting more people (students) working with your product would increase sales, thus benefitting GG too.
#7
As mentioned there is some special student licensing for groups of students, I have known college students to band together to approach us with a group of them buying the educational licensing. Also keep in mind that there are many colleges and universities (and other programs) officially using Torque and have purchased bulk educational licensing. Our educational representatives will better state the numbers but I remember a while ago we were well past the 100 universities mark and we've been growing ever since.
I can relate because I first picked up Torque while in college. I was able to afford the $100, along with a few college "buddies" looking to learn it as well. $100 I think is a more than feasible price for college students. Sure it may take a bit of saving for some, but if one can save $50 then it means they just need twice the time to save $100 and I spent a lot of time playing around with the demos (this was long before TGB and it's trial) such as Realm Wars and learning the scripting language.
As far as possible strategies for cheap or free versions, we've definitely talked about it. In fact we have some pretty interesting ideas along those lines, ideas you probably would like. In the end we have to back it up with research and usability testing. Finding the right package setup with the right pricing structure for offering cheap and/or a free option while still being competitive at a higher price range and while still getting a decent return on our invested time and money is a challenge.
All feedback is welcomed though and I do share some of your sentiments, especially for students in High School and below.
08/06/2008 (10:57 am)
Hey jydog, some very good thoughts. As we can see there are a bunch of varied ideas on what a good price could and should be. As mentioned there is some special student licensing for groups of students, I have known college students to band together to approach us with a group of them buying the educational licensing. Also keep in mind that there are many colleges and universities (and other programs) officially using Torque and have purchased bulk educational licensing. Our educational representatives will better state the numbers but I remember a while ago we were well past the 100 universities mark and we've been growing ever since.
I can relate because I first picked up Torque while in college. I was able to afford the $100, along with a few college "buddies" looking to learn it as well. $100 I think is a more than feasible price for college students. Sure it may take a bit of saving for some, but if one can save $50 then it means they just need twice the time to save $100 and I spent a lot of time playing around with the demos (this was long before TGB and it's trial) such as Realm Wars and learning the scripting language.
As far as possible strategies for cheap or free versions, we've definitely talked about it. In fact we have some pretty interesting ideas along those lines, ideas you probably would like. In the end we have to back it up with research and usability testing. Finding the right package setup with the right pricing structure for offering cheap and/or a free option while still being competitive at a higher price range and while still getting a decent return on our invested time and money is a challenge.
All feedback is welcomed though and I do share some of your sentiments, especially for students in High School and below.
#8
08/06/2008 (11:33 am)
Quote:How many high school ( or college ) students spend that on a game engine? Games, yes. Engines, ???Why not prioritize and not buy two highly disposable games (as the vast majority of $59 priced titles for consoles are) and get an engine which allows you to make an unlimited number of titles without paying royalties?
#9
08/06/2008 (12:15 pm)
New console games are $120 here. You'll keep selling plenty to Europe :)
#10
Just kidding.
I understand all that has been said. I like their tools. I have the engines and much other "stuff". Top quality goods. I will continue in my Torque journey. I just feel a slightly different approach would have benefited GG and the younger community. This was one of a few test probes into GG to see if they were open to helping small groups to try to better get a grip on game development. They seam to be going a good but different direction.
Randy
08/06/2008 (4:52 pm)
I'll take one last parting shot as I let it go. ; ) Wrong.Just kidding.
I understand all that has been said. I like their tools. I have the engines and much other "stuff". Top quality goods. I will continue in my Torque journey. I just feel a slightly different approach would have benefited GG and the younger community. This was one of a few test probes into GG to see if they were open to helping small groups to try to better get a grip on game development. They seam to be going a good but different direction.
Randy
#11
My basic schedule was this:
Classes every Tuesday/Thursday for 3.5 months (Sept. - Dec.)
Each class was 2hours long. (first hour teaching, second hour lab)
Students would have 3 completed projects to turn in(one each month)
Last 2 weeks spent on starting your own project.
This class would teach you the basics of TGB. From using the program for basic games to scripting some more advanced techniques. I am a teacher and have also thought of doing a TGB club.
So my question is how much would you be willing to spend on a class like this?
08/08/2008 (3:41 am)
I have been toying with teaching a class with TGB. I have the first unit done and have next started. The more I thought about it, I realized that by the time a student bought TGB for $100 and then paid me for teaching the class, it was not cost effective for some studnets. I also know that I'd have to lock in some place to teach which would cost some amount. Set up each computer or have students bring laptops. My basic schedule was this:
Classes every Tuesday/Thursday for 3.5 months (Sept. - Dec.)
Each class was 2hours long. (first hour teaching, second hour lab)
Students would have 3 completed projects to turn in(one each month)
Last 2 weeks spent on starting your own project.
This class would teach you the basics of TGB. From using the program for basic games to scripting some more advanced techniques. I am a teacher and have also thought of doing a TGB club.
So my question is how much would you be willing to spend on a class like this?
#12
Valuable things in life has a cost and we should pay that cost in money, work, passion....
And, as I've said, I don't want to be rude, but in my opinion $100 for the TGB is not only a fair sum, is strongly cheap considering other options.
08/09/2008 (3:11 pm)
I live in Mexico and I bough the $250 indie license. I have bough an original copy of macromedia flash studio in $899 and I've spent thousands in books and other stuff just to see if I was capable of doing a game... I'm not a programmer, I'm a psychologist with true passion for games and I found that TGB is at $100, a real gift for everyone. So, I don't want to be rude in any way, but considering all the hard work and time/money investment in the creation of TGB and other GG technologies, I think that jydog's sons should seat near to him to see him working... if they fall in love with the engine so they must spent $200, that I'm sure they will easily spent in: cloths, music, videogames, movies, etc.Valuable things in life has a cost and we should pay that cost in money, work, passion....
And, as I've said, I don't want to be rude, but in my opinion $100 for the TGB is not only a fair sum, is strongly cheap considering other options.
#13
Anyway, I guess I see you point. If a student is very interested in programming games they will front the money for the engine. It's money well spent...
Thumbs up to the GG team! :)
08/09/2008 (4:31 pm)
I also think $100 for an indies is cheap. This engine is great for some one who doesn't want to spend hours learning how to just set up and window for DirectX or OpenGL. Almost everything is managed for you in graphics, sound, and menus. That's the major reason why I use this TGB. I've spent hours putting DirectX together only having to redo it to get some new things into a different game. I see that Dark GDK is out and you have to buy add-ins to get some of the functioinality that comes with TGB.Anyway, I guess I see you point. If a student is very interested in programming games they will front the money for the engine. It's money well spent...
Thumbs up to the GG team! :)
Torque Owner Deozaan
TGB in Education and TGB (Pro?) in Education