Teacher: "We Don't use Normal maps" WTF?

#1 You're rarely going to be 100% satisfied with any teacher. I'd let it go.

There's plenty of other stuff to learn, anyway. Normal maps don't do you any good if your level design sucks.

#2 She is simply out of touch with the industry.

Learning the basics and how to work within tight limitations is a good thing, but ignoring something as wide spread as normal maps is foolish. If you plan to be an artist in the game industry you should be learning the differences between object space and tangent space normal maps, the different normal map compression formats, parallax maps, and tools like Zbrush and Crazybump.

If your paying for this education i would seriously challenge this issue with the school administration.

Also consider outing the school if they refuse to teach normal maps. It seems to me that a few schools are hiring a couple of people out of the industry for several years and start up a "game development program". Its criminal for people to be claiming an education in game art by just showing you around Photoshop and UnrealEd.

#3 No everyone teaches it. The teachers currently employed in the industry say hey let me show you this Zbrush stuff. She doesn't even know unreal ed I don't think.

Overall i've only had 3 not good teachers. Most of the teacher I have are great. They teach me industry standard stuff. That's why the things this one teacher says stand out even more. It's because everyone's philosophy is completely different than hers.

I asked her what she did outside of teaching. she told me she made t shirts. I'm still perplexed. I know she worked in the industry. But she keeps using words like We do this and We don't do that. when she's not a part of the we

#4 That's one of the main reasons I haven't paid for any game dev training (as far as college/school goes) right there. I've heard a few similar stories as well. That particular case with the normal maps is pretty messed up in my opinion.

Of course, I know there are good colleges out there, ones particularly aimed at being cutting edge at that. It seems to me, it's your normal run-of-the-mill kinda schools that do the sort of things Tom mentioned: show you basic texturing in Photoshop, and basic level editing in UnrealEd. Heck, even some of the "advanced" stuff they teach usually amounts to a primer on... not so advanced, and even more so outdated material.

So far common resources have taught me the most. Books and the net. That's the way to go in my opinion. The way I see it, if you don't have ability to find answers on the web, you probably aren't cut out for something as daunting as game design.

All in all though, I wouldn't pass up a good education in game dev if I had the opportunity, but at the same time I can see myself getting kicked out of school for doing something crazy because a teacher tries to teach that normal maps aren't an industry wide standard.

#5 No everyone teaches it. The teachers currently employed in the industry say hey let me show you this Zbrush stuff. She doesn't even know unreal ed I don't think.

Overall i've only had 3 not good teachers. Most of the teacher I have are great. They teach me industry standard stuff. That's why the things this one teacher says stand out even more. It's because everyone's philosophy is completely different than hers.

I asked her what she did outside of teaching. she told me she made t shirts. I'm still perplexed. I know she worked in the industry. But she keeps using words like We do this and We don't do that. when she's not a part of the we

#6 Dont worry it happens everywhere. Some colleges hire to fill a hole and they are not really concerned if the teacher knows all industry information, trust me i know. Ignorance is bliss they say. I have a teacher that doesnt like to use uv's because the procedurals in lightwave are easier, he also refuses to learn anything new until he is forced to. The same teacher didnt know what normal maps where until my bro and i showed him. Then he was like oh thats too complicated.

My suggestion to you is to just keep quiet (dont want to start crap) and basically be the top of your class, google is always been a good teacher. Thats what my brother and I had to do because our teacher wasnt teaching us the stuff we wanted to know, so we kept quiet, searched alot, and when our renders were taking a quarter of the time than the other students we got noticed.

Its good to be noticed for your work and not because you talked with the dean. Ok.

Edit: Spelling

#7 I totally DISAGREE. I am a college instructor. I teach 3D art and and interactive media design and it sounds to me like this particular teacher does not have a clue what he/she is doing. Part of my job is staying current with the latest technology and techniques and incorporating those into the classes. I suggest you go to the Dean and bring up your concerns. However, go prepared. Bring along articles and examples and show him/her the current trends and explain WHY learning a specific technology or technique is important in this highly fluid industry. Your paying for this education (well someone is anyway) you may as well get the best one possible.

#8 I need you to give my teacher a pep talk. :D

#9 "We don't use nomral maps in the industry. When the engine chugs we toss those out first."

Which industry is she talking about? Talk about out-of-touch.

#10 Yup.. way out of touch..

If you want changes try to make decisions as a class of pupils rather then an individual.

Be aware that rehiring tutors and things of that nature take a fairly long time and may not be in your interest (disruption to studies etc). Be aware that games in general are jargon to normal folk, try to spell it out.

#11 All I can say as an old man is, thank goodnesss you have these classes at all. My computer class in high school was on old Apple II e's and taught by the old typing teacher who knew very little about computers at all, let alone how to program one.

Just remember, no one is perfect. I do agree though that if you're going to teach a subject, you need to stay current on that subject, especially when it comes to things like comptuer graphics and programming.

#12 Just correct her - I correct teachers all the time, it's very satisfying. Lol

If you do feel it may jeopardized someone's learning, then yes - perhaps mention it.

#13 I give everyone who is interested in being a game artist the same advice: focus on art fundamentals, not tech. Normal maps and high poly counts and pixel shader 3.5.7.3 don't make art look good - artists make art look good. At the end of the day, if you can't make a model that looks good with 500 tris and a 256 x 256 map, then a few thousand more tris and much larger textures aren't going to allow you to make more detailed art, they are going to be a crutch you can't live without... and unless you don't mind being a grunt artist for the majority of your career, thats not a good thing.

So yeah, it sounds like your teacher may be slightly behind the times, but I'd also try to watch how "can you believe this chick?!" you get... graphics tech doesn't make a game inherently fun, it just makes it easier for the pushers in marketing to make bulleted feature lists. If you want to be an key asset to a development team, a deep knowledge of art fundamentals (color theory, composition, form and space, etc, etc) will go a lot further than knowing how to use zBrush.

Just my two cents.

#14 Adam: Yeah I understand that. That's why I have to make sure my final project looks good within her constraints otherwise my complaints are moot.

But seeing as how the school is trying to prepare us for working for Graphical Arms Race Minded Console Developers, its a fallacy that she won't even accept the fact that they're doing other things now. In fact its as if she doesn't care.

I actually showed her this article from cgsociety. The second sentence of the "constructing" the model" Section says: "We use Normal Maps on all of our models.

I showed her the article, and she simply said "hm" As to acknowledge: "Yes you're right, but I don't care in the least."

I asked her if she even did any 3d art outside of work: Her response: "No I only make the models the company wants me to. I'm not a gamer. I make doll clothes."

I'm all for individuality, and i'm not saying that everyone needs to only make game art all the time. However, she basically was saying she did not want to keep up with what was going on in the industry. It's just baffling is all.

But I understand my education is my own responsibility. But to a certain extent I'm paying 6k a class for something i'll just search for on google. Thank god this school has better teachers than her.

#15

Quote:But to a certain extent I'm paying 6k a class for something i'll just search for on google.

Higher education, summed up in a single sentence.

Learn everything you can from your education, just remember that the university has 0 responsibility to make sure you get a proper education. You can't return it for a refund; I tried once.

#16 I agree w/ Pat but w/ the caveat that in my experience, formal education can give you some stuff that's difficult to get from either google or even working in the industry, and that's stuff like a good understanding of Math, Statistics, and Physics. Even CS algorithms can be picked up along the way to a degree, but those hardcore topics are way harder to get competency with outside of a proper classroom/course.

#17 @Marvin - This all sounds kind of pretentious -- you're coming off like you're trying to prove your smarter or better, and this is exactly like what it would sound like to the dean if you complained to him/her. Just learn what you can, and let your ego go. If you want to have a discussion with your teacher about what you think might be better, don't go in with the "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude.

#18 Ok...going up to her or the dean and saying "You aren't teaching normal maps in this class and that's wrong" won't get you anywhere.

You should be going to the head of the department and asking when and where normal maps will be taught. Get a discussion started about what they are, how they're important in the industry, etc... Surely there is at least one person there that will be sympathetic...get that person involved. Make that the subject of an independent study if it's that important to you.

#19 When i went to school for computer science, our class was taught by a near retirement or passed retirement Professor. This Prof. was strictly TextBook, and had no real Wordly experience herself so she had nothing more to draw from when it came to Teaching.

Our class was full of broken english speaking Japanese People that came there to learn Computer Science.

Too late to keep this story short so.. Our project then was to Take her TextBook teaching method, and create a Loan Amortisation ( sp ) program.

Her concept then was:
Assume you get a Bank loan, Your program will Generate the time in years to repay the loan including Interest, based on the amount you choose to pay the bank on that loan.
The program will show you the answer.
Include your Hard Copy ( printed version ) of your source code.

I slacked off in college enough to fall behind. Was buying a house, had wife and kids,..etc.. So Learning Pascal was on the back burner for me.. I wanted to learn C ( the Language that birthed Pascal ).

Anyways, A Phone call from the Prof one night.. she told me i needed to have my program ready for her in 3 days since i was already behind. And amongst our conversation she said quote "Maybe computer programming isn't right for you.".. Well.. NOBODY tells me I can't learn something, and especially when I am paying that Prof to teach it.

I didn't sleep that Night. I opened the text book, and paraphrased the entire thing front to back.. skipped school the next day.. so I could sleep on my cramming session.. and that next night I sat down at the computer with a Real World Book.. about Loans and a simple amortisation math rule.
Looked at the math.. and decided Ok I can DO this.
I began writing my Program.

Uses CRT..
etc etc..
Compiled.. fixed some minor compile errors, Made the executable.. Printed the Hard Copy.. and the next Day..
I walked into her class late.. slapped the 5.25 Floppy and a 3 page print out on her desk.
I said simply.. "There".

She Failed me. Yep. I got an F grade.

She didn't like the fact that I wrote my program based on real life logic.. ( You simply don't take a loan and then tell the bank you'll pay 3 dollars a month for the rest of your life ).
Which is what her Task for this program would have lead to.
I corrected the program to work as professionals would have it work.. That was 1 mark against me..
The program was scrolling out all the answers for every payment until it finished at the end and the program stopped.. completed.
That was score 2 against me.
Score 3 and 4 against me was I told her off.. in the start of the Program..you had to read it before the program continued.. Basically saying.. Don't ever assume that I can not know something better then you and
This program is 100% accurate to Real Life..

Now here is the kicker.. a 17 year old genius in the class and all the rest of those student had Incomplete work, or division by Zero errors.. none of their Programs worked for her discussion..
I had the only working version but it didn't get written in the Month allowed, it was written in 1 day after learning Pascal for the first 2 days of 3 i was permitted.
And after receiving my F in that class i went to the Dean about her lack of Real World teaching.. She simply cannot teach.. His response Quote "Mrs. (name excluded).. is the only Computer Scince Professor we have".

My response quote "Thank you for your Time sir. I'll be taking my money elsewhere and won't waste another penny on a Professor that cannot teach me better then i can teach myself".

True story. Take it for what it's worth.

#20 LOL A nice object lesson on the cost of arrogance!

Seriously, we geeks have issues with that because when we're young we think we're smarter than everyone else. Usually this gets beaten out of you by real life experience, and this is a good thing.