Why close the thread discussing TorqueScript?
by Derry Bryson · in General Discussion · 09/21/2007 (9:27 pm) · 45 replies
I understand that Derek might have gotten out of hand, but you modded that out and banned him (or whatever). So why can't the discussion continue? I was learning stuff about possible replacements, etc.
#3
My email is guarded by ChoiceMail One. So you will get a challenge/response email to which you have to respond before your email will be allowed through.
09/22/2007 (6:03 am)
It should be in my profile or at www.dereksmart.org. Anyway, its dsmart@3000ad.comMy email is guarded by ChoiceMail One. So you will get a challenge/response email to which you have to respond before your email will be allowed through.
#4
Anyways, I agree with a lot of what you said there (and some other places) so I am looking forward to your views (on your blog) on this subject.
09/22/2007 (7:09 am)
I have bookmarked your blog but waiting for content for some time now :PAnyways, I agree with a lot of what you said there (and some other places) so I am looking forward to your views (on your blog) on this subject.
#5
You stated you have your projects going on, you have your deals and IAC blows?
Yet you have all this time to troll the forums like some 10 year old kid pissing and moaning.
Garage Games has done nothing but good for everyone so far and they already stated.
IA is separate from GG. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Nothing has even been
released yet.
[mod snipped on side of being careful--could be considered personal attack]
I do get a good laugh from some of your posts though.
Talking about how torque script is ancient and this and that needs upgraded
or rewritten to new tech yet, you want to move in your old AI and this and that.
Just let it go.
Anyone that has taken 5 mins to read the press release and the various Garage Games posts
understand, if it's a mistake so be it. Nothing ever gets done posting on the forums bitching and moaning, but it does get done by those that try new things and hook up people that wanna try new things.
No one is forcing you to use IA or what not.
Your free to take your source and do whatever you like.
09/22/2007 (7:28 am)
Derek I don't get it.You stated you have your projects going on, you have your deals and IAC blows?
Yet you have all this time to troll the forums like some 10 year old kid pissing and moaning.
Garage Games has done nothing but good for everyone so far and they already stated.
IA is separate from GG. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Nothing has even been
released yet.
[mod snipped on side of being careful--could be considered personal attack]
I do get a good laugh from some of your posts though.
Talking about how torque script is ancient and this and that needs upgraded
or rewritten to new tech yet, you want to move in your old AI and this and that.
Just let it go.
Anyone that has taken 5 mins to read the press release and the various Garage Games posts
understand, if it's a mistake so be it. Nothing ever gets done posting on the forums bitching and moaning, but it does get done by those that try new things and hook up people that wanna try new things.
No one is forcing you to use IA or what not.
Your free to take your source and do whatever you like.
#6
09/22/2007 (8:01 am)
Well said, Jeremy. [mod snipped--personal attack] If the IAC deal does indeed blow up in everyone's face, as Jeremy said, bitching about it won't help at all. The deed is done. We have the source code. None of us have our life savings wrapped up in Torque, and if you aren't constantly looking to evaluate new middleware and\or create your own (whichever fits your need\time\budget) then you are in the wrong business to start with. There are several equivalents out there. Have you looked at c4 for instance? If you truly have a budget I would look at UNIGINE, its really top shelf though a bit pricey. FYI, I'm a professional developer with 10 years of flight simulation\defense contract 3D visualization experience. If you aren't moving forward you are dying in this business.
#7
Fact: I have never - ever - bad mouthed anyone here. Bad mouthing devs is just something I don't do.
Fact: In posts I've made - even in the now locked thread - I talked about the GG community, how professional those who are serious and studious are, hence the plethora of add-ons, content etc. That comes from respect. Look, respect is earned, not doled out like they were merit badges at a boy scout cookout.
Call me unprofessional all you want. The fact remains, I'm the multi-millionaire from doing what I do and I continues to ship games and through big names. It is my guess that nobody here can make the same claims. If you can't walk the walk, you should'nt be talking the talk. I got this far because I was focused and studious. I had a plan. I didn't ride on the wings of a whim hoping that it all works out. Just because I tend to be rather intolerant and am notoriously outspoken, doesn't make less of my accomplishments. Which, I might add, a lot of people made fun (some of your are still around) of me when I was first starting out.
My works, history and accomplishments speak volumes for themselves. As such, not only do I not need to prove myself to anyone, but I don't need to engage in self-defeating rhetoric that only ends up being a pissing match.
So please, give it a rest. If I'm wrong - which is very rarely as it pertains to this industry - then only time will tell. I don't - and never have - wished anyone ill, let alone the efforts of the GG crew. Having a difference of opinion doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water.
@ Jehsup
Lets see if your name calling gets you a warning, let alone a ban notice. Its people like you who make others look bad. When people resort to name calling, it is a clear sign that they are inferior in more ways than one. So, reverting to name calling and putting people down is a way to make themselves feel good. Carry on.
It is always fun to jump on the bashing bandwagon in which most people are reduced to just a notch above schoolyard bullies. Its the mob mentality. Then comes jealously. But thats something for a shrink.
While you may not have your life savings wrapped up in Torque, my guess is that (a) nobody gives a shit (b) there are LOTS of people here who have invested their time, effort and money (one email I got cites two years and $40K investment) into this and who are generally pissed at this turn of events. Especially them not knowing what the future holds. So, speak for yourself.
If you missed my posts about engine evaluations, then you're not paying attention. I have looked at several and they didn't suit my needs. I'm not some noob with a check book. I know what I'm looking for. So take your speculation and do something else with it.
[mod snipped, challenges not appropriate for the discussion]
09/22/2007 (8:40 am)
Guys, it is considered poor form to talk about someone behind their back. I'm not going to engage either of you in a pissing contest because it will end up being a lesson in futility.Fact: I have never - ever - bad mouthed anyone here. Bad mouthing devs is just something I don't do.
Fact: In posts I've made - even in the now locked thread - I talked about the GG community, how professional those who are serious and studious are, hence the plethora of add-ons, content etc. That comes from respect. Look, respect is earned, not doled out like they were merit badges at a boy scout cookout.
Call me unprofessional all you want. The fact remains, I'm the multi-millionaire from doing what I do and I continues to ship games and through big names. It is my guess that nobody here can make the same claims. If you can't walk the walk, you should'nt be talking the talk. I got this far because I was focused and studious. I had a plan. I didn't ride on the wings of a whim hoping that it all works out. Just because I tend to be rather intolerant and am notoriously outspoken, doesn't make less of my accomplishments. Which, I might add, a lot of people made fun (some of your are still around) of me when I was first starting out.
My works, history and accomplishments speak volumes for themselves. As such, not only do I not need to prove myself to anyone, but I don't need to engage in self-defeating rhetoric that only ends up being a pissing match.
So please, give it a rest. If I'm wrong - which is very rarely as it pertains to this industry - then only time will tell. I don't - and never have - wished anyone ill, let alone the efforts of the GG crew. Having a difference of opinion doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water.
@ Jehsup
Lets see if your name calling gets you a warning, let alone a ban notice. Its people like you who make others look bad. When people resort to name calling, it is a clear sign that they are inferior in more ways than one. So, reverting to name calling and putting people down is a way to make themselves feel good. Carry on.
It is always fun to jump on the bashing bandwagon in which most people are reduced to just a notch above schoolyard bullies. Its the mob mentality. Then comes jealously. But thats something for a shrink.
While you may not have your life savings wrapped up in Torque, my guess is that (a) nobody gives a shit (b) there are LOTS of people here who have invested their time, effort and money (one email I got cites two years and $40K investment) into this and who are generally pissed at this turn of events. Especially them not knowing what the future holds. So, speak for yourself.
If you missed my posts about engine evaluations, then you're not paying attention. I have looked at several and they didn't suit my needs. I'm not some noob with a check book. I know what I'm looking for. So take your speculation and do something else with it.
[mod snipped, challenges not appropriate for the discussion]
#8
Well he did say defense contract. Maybe his work is "confidential". If I had a dime for every time I've heard that from someone I'd be rich. Which brings me to my next blathering.
@Jeshup
You say Derek has too much time on his hands yet I don't consider being a large part of this community time "badly spent". Plus anyone doing indie development has "time" or they would be working for some corporation assisting in the commercialization of all games and entertainment.
No I'm not a Derek fanboi, I have my own mind. I think his points are well put and the other thread about IAC is being modded too hard. If the wrong question gets asked its a warning which is retarded.
I haven't contributed much to the community either, but, I'm a professional 3D artist not a programmer, which seems to be the most talked about things in the community, hence why I don't post much. But I won't go into that because I'm not big on waving my virtual muscles bragging about contracts and how much people want to suck up my skills or whatever clicks your remote.
09/22/2007 (10:48 am)
@DerekWell he did say defense contract. Maybe his work is "confidential". If I had a dime for every time I've heard that from someone I'd be rich. Which brings me to my next blathering.
@Jeshup
You say Derek has too much time on his hands yet I don't consider being a large part of this community time "badly spent". Plus anyone doing indie development has "time" or they would be working for some corporation assisting in the commercialization of all games and entertainment.
No I'm not a Derek fanboi, I have my own mind. I think his points are well put and the other thread about IAC is being modded too hard. If the wrong question gets asked its a warning which is retarded.
I haven't contributed much to the community either, but, I'm a professional 3D artist not a programmer, which seems to be the most talked about things in the community, hence why I don't post much. But I won't go into that because I'm not big on waving my virtual muscles bragging about contracts and how much people want to suck up my skills or whatever clicks your remote.
#9
--unprofessional forum posting. We do as much as we can to keep things on an emotional even keel, and anything that appears to me (yep, it's MY standard, and I honestly don't care if you think it was a personal attack or not, if I read it as aggressive or possible flame bait, I mod it) to be a potential to inflame a thread, I may mod it.
--off base to the thread at hand. Normally, we let things go their natural route, but since the original IAC announcement thread had a very specific purpose, if things went off base, I modded.
--Derek himself asked to be banned, so we did. We haven't banned anyone in so long (it's been years), that the person that implemented the ban forgot to do the first step, so Derek was informed of the change.
09/22/2007 (11:12 am)
All moderations of anyone in the primary thread were due to two reasons:--unprofessional forum posting. We do as much as we can to keep things on an emotional even keel, and anything that appears to me (yep, it's MY standard, and I honestly don't care if you think it was a personal attack or not, if I read it as aggressive or possible flame bait, I mod it) to be a potential to inflame a thread, I may mod it.
--off base to the thread at hand. Normally, we let things go their natural route, but since the original IAC announcement thread had a very specific purpose, if things went off base, I modded.
--Derek himself asked to be banned, so we did. We haven't banned anyone in so long (it's been years), that the person that implemented the ban forgot to do the first step, so Derek was informed of the change.
#10
It will be up early next week. We recently moved servers, overhauled our website etc and my blog is hosted on the same server. I don't use my blog because I just tend to post in the dev section of my forum. But I need to get started on that because the idea was to separate my personal blog at dereksmart.org from my dev blog on my 3000ad.com website.
Had I known that my GG blog about the IAC thing would have been deleted(!) I wouldn't have even bothered.
The good thing about the net is that nothing ever goes away. And as famous as I am, once I latch onto something, the search engines tend to stick them right up there. It is usually inevitable. Which is why, well, [industry] people don't mess with me.
I have worked with a LOT of industry people, licensed a lot of material and never had a problem (or I wouldn't be in business, nor working for that matter). Every thing you see about me on search sites, are from detracting individuals I've had a run-in with. You'd be hard pressed to find anything industry related in which DS has been known to behave badly, is hard to work with etc.
The fact is that once in a while you run into people who feel threatened and insecure. The only recourse for them is to jump on the bandwagon and engage someone they know nothing about, apart from what they read. Stupid people never cease to amaze me.
@ Stephen
As I said in the other thread, I have no problem with modding. God knows we all needed it at some point or another. But singling out someone is just plain poor form. At the end of the day, rules are rules. But you can't make up the rules as you go along!!
So, tell me, why did you not mod out Jehsup's post? If that was me, you would have modded it out and warned me for making personal attacks.
Again, that brings me to the whole preferential treatment thing.
@ Andrew
Give it a rest. My God. Some of you are acting like I've run off with your booze and women or something. Are you folks that insecure?
09/22/2007 (12:15 pm)
@NikhilIt will be up early next week. We recently moved servers, overhauled our website etc and my blog is hosted on the same server. I don't use my blog because I just tend to post in the dev section of my forum. But I need to get started on that because the idea was to separate my personal blog at dereksmart.org from my dev blog on my 3000ad.com website.
Had I known that my GG blog about the IAC thing would have been deleted(!) I wouldn't have even bothered.
The good thing about the net is that nothing ever goes away. And as famous as I am, once I latch onto something, the search engines tend to stick them right up there. It is usually inevitable. Which is why, well, [industry] people don't mess with me.
I have worked with a LOT of industry people, licensed a lot of material and never had a problem (or I wouldn't be in business, nor working for that matter). Every thing you see about me on search sites, are from detracting individuals I've had a run-in with. You'd be hard pressed to find anything industry related in which DS has been known to behave badly, is hard to work with etc.
The fact is that once in a while you run into people who feel threatened and insecure. The only recourse for them is to jump on the bandwagon and engage someone they know nothing about, apart from what they read. Stupid people never cease to amaze me.
@ Stephen
As I said in the other thread, I have no problem with modding. God knows we all needed it at some point or another. But singling out someone is just plain poor form. At the end of the day, rules are rules. But you can't make up the rules as you go along!!
So, tell me, why did you not mod out Jehsup's post? If that was me, you would have modded it out and warned me for making personal attacks.
Again, that brings me to the whole preferential treatment thing.
@ Andrew
Give it a rest. My God. Some of you are acting like I've run off with your booze and women or something. Are you folks that insecure?
#11
09/22/2007 (12:38 pm)
[mod snipped--just cutting left and right here, let it go folks, please.]
#12
Quiet honestly? Because it's the weekend and I have other things to do. Having re-read it instead of skimming it, you are in fact right--it needs to be moderated, and it will be.
09/22/2007 (12:41 pm)
Quote:
So, tell me, why did you not mod out Jehsup's post? If that was me, you would have modded it out and warned me for making personal attacks.
Quiet honestly? Because it's the weekend and I have other things to do. Having re-read it instead of skimming it, you are in fact right--it needs to be moderated, and it will be.
#13
Headache anyway, yes. 8-P
Because is
Edit: missing '?'
09/22/2007 (12:42 pm)
@Gareth: Quote:I'm sorry Stephan, I know this is causing you a headache.??? huh???
Headache anyway, yes. 8-P
Because is
Quote:Derek himself asked to be banned, so we did.and he continues posting here, someone here is lying.
Edit: missing '?'
#14
09/22/2007 (12:43 pm)
Whoops, I meant Stephen Zepp.
#15
No worries. I understand. No harm. No foul.
I'm sitting out back on the lake, using a laptop watching my neighbors transplant a tree and wonder if they are going to - once again - cut through my cable feed. So, yeah, I'm bored. My original plan was to go to the movies (Resident Evil opened this weekend).
09/22/2007 (12:45 pm)
@ StephenNo worries. I understand. No harm. No foul.
I'm sitting out back on the lake, using a laptop watching my neighbors transplant a tree and wonder if they are going to - once again - cut through my cable feed. So, yeah, I'm bored. My original plan was to go to the movies (Resident Evil opened this weekend).
#16
The GG community is not about proving "who's best, who's right, or who can be a better forum warrior". It's about polite, professional discourse on many (if not all) aspects of game development, from technology to business to learning, to teaching.
There are forums in the world who's primary modus operandi is to rip into each other, and beat others into submission via text. This is not one of them, so please just stop.
09/22/2007 (12:50 pm)
Look guys, I'm honestly getting sick and tired of this. Regardless of what people think about each other, who's done more where, why, and when, or what people think of each other's posting styles and the value of individual opinions, it's Saturday, I'm trying to get some work done on a personal project, and I'm wasting way too much time trying to get everyone to act like adults and respect each other's opinions.The GG community is not about proving "who's best, who's right, or who can be a better forum warrior". It's about polite, professional discourse on many (if not all) aspects of game development, from technology to business to learning, to teaching.
There are forums in the world who's primary modus operandi is to rip into each other, and beat others into submission via text. This is not one of them, so please just stop.
#17
As I said, it's been so long where we've had to ban someone that the person performing the "banning" forgot a step. Embarrassing, but true. So be it--but don't treat it as a writ grand mal to be unprofessional, anyone.
09/22/2007 (12:52 pm)
Quote:
Because is
Quote:
Derek himself asked to be banned, so we did.
and he continues posting here, someone here is lying.
Edit: missing '?'
As I said, it's been so long where we've had to ban someone that the person performing the "banning" forgot a step. Embarrassing, but true. So be it--but don't treat it as a writ grand mal to be unprofessional, anyone.
#18
That should be resolved through a Deathmatch on Starter.fps ;)
09/22/2007 (12:55 pm)
You are right Stephen, it's getting long and boring.That should be resolved through a Deathmatch on Starter.fps ;)
#19
09/22/2007 (1:04 pm)
This thread really kills the mood on these forums today. 
#20
09/22/2007 (1:06 pm)
I agree ^ 
Derek Smart
The bottomline is that they're pissed because of my outspoken comments toward this GG/IAC stuff thats going on. Sure, they can't just outright ban me without it being the obvious excuse. So they find a [rather poor] reason.
EVERY single one of my posts in that thread is archived because given my history here, I expect them to either be (a) taken out of context or (b) modded for no reason at all.
My point in the previous thread is that the mod comments made it look like I was consistently making personal attacks. Which is patently untrue. Even if you looked at my profile page and all my forum posts, you will find no evidence of this. None. Even my run-in with Jeff a few years back (to which I have all the emails and when I write my blog next week at dereksmart.org, I'm going to make public as I write about this GG/IAC business) had no evidence of such.
The fact that they even need mods around here - where a group of professionals are supposed to hang out - is suspect enough.
I try to help when I can. My posts (here and other dev sites) are 100% productive and helpful. But the fact is, when you don't like someone or you're gunning for that person, anything goes. Plus, since I'm notorious for not laying down and playing dead, it gets to go downhill when people think they can just poke me with a stick and get away with it.
I logged in last night to kill my profile, but found that I could no longer log-in. OK, I thought, maybe I forgot the password. My plan was to remove all my profile material and just leave GG to its inevitably demise. Its not like it has or is going to do anything for me either way. Anyway, when I punched in my email address and received the a/c reminder, the had changed my password to: garagegamesrules. So, I took a screen shot of it and archived it for my next blog entry.
When I logged in, they had removed my blog entry in which I was critical of the IAC buyout as well as my run in with Jeff a few years back. Bear in mind that I wrote that blog a few days ago and posted a link to it from the IAC discussion thread. They left it then because I had removed the entire post due to a mod saying that it was taking the thread off-topic. Now they just removed it now that they figured I was not coming back. I also took a screen shot of the resources page from my browser history and today's viewing to show the differences and the entire blog itself.
Anyway, I then proceeded to remove all my profile entries, except that I couldn't remove the photos, so I had to upload blank images.
I didn't come back here to get into a pissing match with Jeff and his band of merry men. Being one (no, I'm not the only one) of the most voca industry vetsl, I'm the fly they simply don't want in this proverbial ointment. But hey, I could care less. Its not like I lose anything by not being here. If anything, GG failed (or they won't be out looking for money, they'd be selling games etc no matter _how_ you spin it) before. It will - inevitably - fail again. I'll still be around doing what I do best: making and selling games. Just look around and ask yourself this: What was the last successful game that ever came out of GG? The answer? None. Zip. Zilch. It is a venture built on promises, missed opportunities and chest thumping. Now GG has been sold, its only going to get worse because now that the primaries (e.g. Jeff) have gotten some money out of it, there is no longer an incentive to give a shit. They can always come back and blame it on IAC.
g'bye everyone.