Are programmers more generous than artists?
by Afrim Kacaj · in General Discussion · 04/26/2007 (10:47 pm) · 85 replies
Flame me if I am wrong but there are a ton of free code resources here on GG but every time I need some sort of art related material I find myself paying for it. And when I do find good free art there is always strings attached to it.
Is a detailed how to make a normal map tutorial equivalent in value to a detailed camera resource which includes the source code? In my opinion it is equivalent to a programmer writing a resource without posting a single line of code. No pun intended to the authors of the above mentioned resources.
I am probably not the right person to complain about this considering that I have only posted one resource myself. But I would certainly be willing to post more resources if I didnt have to waste so much time trying to design a shack that 10,000 other people have designed before and most deffinetly look better than mine! And dont even get me started on textures because there has got to be a zillion stone wall textures out there!
I would also like to point out that a recent animation pack currently being sold on GG would be worth nothing if it werent for all the free code resources referenced by it!
:)
Is a detailed how to make a normal map tutorial equivalent in value to a detailed camera resource which includes the source code? In my opinion it is equivalent to a programmer writing a resource without posting a single line of code. No pun intended to the authors of the above mentioned resources.
I am probably not the right person to complain about this considering that I have only posted one resource myself. But I would certainly be willing to post more resources if I didnt have to waste so much time trying to design a shack that 10,000 other people have designed before and most deffinetly look better than mine! And dont even get me started on textures because there has got to be a zillion stone wall textures out there!
I would also like to point out that a recent animation pack currently being sold on GG would be worth nothing if it werent for all the free code resources referenced by it!
:)
#82
08/22/2007 (11:48 pm)
Huh? This thread is still around? It must be a valuable one, I guess.
#83
The question of which discipline is more valuable is interesting though. One could argue that programmer time is more valuable because the bottleneck on the vast majority of games is the technology development. If you look at the large AAA game projects in development, you'll see high ratios of artists to programmers. This is because next-gen content requires far more assets, but it's also because, unlike programmers, you can throw more artists at a project and still get good productivity out of it.
Art development is a linear, predictable development process. It is relatively easy to predict and manage. This is why outsourcing and contracting are growing for art development. Artists are easier to replace for the same reason.
Programming requires R&D, problem solving, and serious analytic and organizational skills. It is difficult to predict and manage. It is difficult to oursource because it requires intricate knowledge of a large complicated process (codebase). What's more, engines have many overlapping systems, and thus make it difficult for many programmers to work on at once without breaking each other's stuff.
Programming requires constantly updated knowledge of the latest hardware (CPU, GPU), software (compilers, tools), and languages.
Artists need to learn a few new buttons on their latest modeling software revision. Every few years artists need to learn new techniques such as recently with high poly modeling and normal maps. They are mostly learning new tools though, which is significantly easier than writing the tools and other architecture to support the new pipelines.
Does this mean that art development is easy? Hell no, it's not. But it is easier than programming.
08/23/2007 (4:27 pm)
The question of whether artists or programmers are more generous is kind of silly in a general sense. How generous one is depends on the person, not the discipline. Sure coders trade code all the time, but artists also trade knowledge and technique all the time. Not on GarageGames, but in more artist based websites. I have seen some artists like Joe Marushak contribute tons of knowledge and docs to this community.The question of which discipline is more valuable is interesting though. One could argue that programmer time is more valuable because the bottleneck on the vast majority of games is the technology development. If you look at the large AAA game projects in development, you'll see high ratios of artists to programmers. This is because next-gen content requires far more assets, but it's also because, unlike programmers, you can throw more artists at a project and still get good productivity out of it.
Art development is a linear, predictable development process. It is relatively easy to predict and manage. This is why outsourcing and contracting are growing for art development. Artists are easier to replace for the same reason.
Programming requires R&D, problem solving, and serious analytic and organizational skills. It is difficult to predict and manage. It is difficult to oursource because it requires intricate knowledge of a large complicated process (codebase). What's more, engines have many overlapping systems, and thus make it difficult for many programmers to work on at once without breaking each other's stuff.
Programming requires constantly updated knowledge of the latest hardware (CPU, GPU), software (compilers, tools), and languages.
Artists need to learn a few new buttons on their latest modeling software revision. Every few years artists need to learn new techniques such as recently with high poly modeling and normal maps. They are mostly learning new tools though, which is significantly easier than writing the tools and other architecture to support the new pipelines.
Does this mean that art development is easy? Hell no, it's not. But it is easier than programming.
#84
You're forgetting that the home shapes the child.
And sometimes you'll see the complete opposite, such as with God of War.
Linear? What artists are you working with? Have they ever heard of iterative design?
Or the ability to read a manual. or ... !!! gasp !!! ... source code comments.
-----------------------------
My two cents.
Artists require the approval of others.
Coders don't really care about anything but the code.
But it is a largely individual thing to degrees and in the end, you're better off consulting your pineal gland.
09/04/2007 (10:36 am)
Quote:The question of whether artists or programmers are more generous is kind of silly in a general sense. How generous one is depends on the person, not the discipline.
You're forgetting that the home shapes the child.
Quote:large AAA game projects in development, you'll see high ratios of artists to programmers.
And sometimes you'll see the complete opposite, such as with God of War.
Quote:Art development is a linear, predictable development process.
Linear? What artists are you working with? Have they ever heard of iterative design?
Quote:Programming requires constantly updated knowledge of the latest hardware (CPU, GPU), software (compilers, tools), and languages.
Or the ability to read a manual. or ... !!! gasp !!! ... source code comments.
-----------------------------
My two cents.
Artists require the approval of others.
Coders don't really care about anything but the code.
But it is a largely individual thing to degrees and in the end, you're better off consulting your pineal gland.
#85
(Personally, my favorite line was Lee Latham's admonition: "Try begging." Wow. Taken out of context, it looks even better.)
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that art is a right-brain activity and coding is a left-brain activity. I'm sure that has something to do with it. Now if I could just use my brain stem to figure out what that correlation might be...
09/07/2007 (9:26 am)
I wouldn't call this a "dumb" thread. It's actually one of the more interesting non-technical threads in the forums right now.(Personally, my favorite line was Lee Latham's admonition: "Try begging." Wow. Taken out of context, it looks even better.)
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that art is a right-brain activity and coding is a left-brain activity. I'm sure that has something to do with it. Now if I could just use my brain stem to figure out what that correlation might be...
Torque Owner Lee Latham
Default Studio Name
I do actually think artists tend to have an overdeveloped sense of being special peeple, BUT, one only has to look at turbosquid.com to see TONS of free or very very cheap art, much of it of astonishing quality. The F-22 in my game was like ten bucks, and the texture work on it is simply outstanding, and I could never, ever, ever, have done it myself.
So thanks, cheap F-22 guy!
One of the reasons I started on my game was because I felt the art and technology resources are finally "there"--I couldn't do it without turbosquid and torque.
(and yes, I intend to credit all the artwork I got from the squid, despite having no contractual obligation to do so).