Idea for a game design for a newbie
by Jody Robinson · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 12/22/2006 (3:57 pm) · 5 replies
Hey all, first time poster here. I'm a noob at game programming but have what I hope is a logical idea to learn the art and hopefully get somewhere with it.
First off, I'm a mmo lover, but I'm not here to ask "how to make a mmorpg game". I've read many post here and other places over the last few months and understand its a near impossible thing to do. I've seen all the advice to start with a couple simple games to learn the basics and slowly get into more complicate things. That being said here is my idea of progression that I'd like to get some advice/comments on.
As said, I'm a MMO lover but I have to say my 2 Fav games of all time are the original Legend of Zelda and the third one for Snes ( forgot the name, haven't played in years). What I would like to do is to slowly, and in baby steps, make a 2D game similar to the original Zelda, but to a much smaller scale and with bare boned features. Like maybe a couple screens and a couple mobs. Slowly progress to adding more screens, mobs and items. In another phase, add some more interesting stuff like scripted quests, vendors or variable loot tables as battle rewards. Next phase add more, maybe a slightly more involved combat script and a few "spells" or "combat arts", etc etc. All this would be done in baby steps, so that I would get the satisfaction of creating a basic, playable game with each step. With each small addition, the game play would be increased a bit, again giving the satisfaction of accomplishment, eliminating the frustration of trying to put some huge game together and never getting to see anything tangible, as it seems most noobs like myself try to do by jumping in way over their heads.
Eventually, as I get experience with design and scripting, I could add better features, such as a seamless environment, rather than the scrolling windows of a Zelda-esque game. Eventually with the goal of adding "zones" to other "Regions" Basically starting with a small world and building it up to much bigger world to immerse in. Maybe then add some more involved quests that would actually add in some "lore" and feel to flesh out the game.
OK, after getting to this point, try to dive into making it a multiplayer game, to allow a few friends to join in, nothing too large, something that could handle maybe 4 friends joining in to allow work on stuff like chatting trading and grouping. I understand this would be a HUGE step, but to this point I would have gained a ton of experience with some game design and may be up to the task.
So hopefully you can see where this is going, gaining vital programming and design skills to slowly make a very involved game. All the while having a basic playable game that I can learn more complicated things with, while still being able to get the satisfaction of accopmlishment.
And yes, eventually taking these skills to a 3D game and maybe eventually being able to slowly make it handle more and more players. Hopefully some of the work that was done with the 2D game could be carried over to a 3D game, such as quest, vendor, chat and combat scripting, for example.
Alot of that would rely on the scripting for TGB (which I would start with) to be similar or the same as TGE and or TSE, which I really hope to be true (please say yes!)
So, basically, I would be starting with a very basic playable 2D game that can slowly become more and more involved. All the while, playable to some extent after each step and then, eventually, taking some of it with me when I dive into 3D and maybe some day developing into a fairly involved 3D game.
Just wanna get any comments or advice on this idea. Sorry for such a long post!
First off, I'm a mmo lover, but I'm not here to ask "how to make a mmorpg game". I've read many post here and other places over the last few months and understand its a near impossible thing to do. I've seen all the advice to start with a couple simple games to learn the basics and slowly get into more complicate things. That being said here is my idea of progression that I'd like to get some advice/comments on.
As said, I'm a MMO lover but I have to say my 2 Fav games of all time are the original Legend of Zelda and the third one for Snes ( forgot the name, haven't played in years). What I would like to do is to slowly, and in baby steps, make a 2D game similar to the original Zelda, but to a much smaller scale and with bare boned features. Like maybe a couple screens and a couple mobs. Slowly progress to adding more screens, mobs and items. In another phase, add some more interesting stuff like scripted quests, vendors or variable loot tables as battle rewards. Next phase add more, maybe a slightly more involved combat script and a few "spells" or "combat arts", etc etc. All this would be done in baby steps, so that I would get the satisfaction of creating a basic, playable game with each step. With each small addition, the game play would be increased a bit, again giving the satisfaction of accomplishment, eliminating the frustration of trying to put some huge game together and never getting to see anything tangible, as it seems most noobs like myself try to do by jumping in way over their heads.
Eventually, as I get experience with design and scripting, I could add better features, such as a seamless environment, rather than the scrolling windows of a Zelda-esque game. Eventually with the goal of adding "zones" to other "Regions" Basically starting with a small world and building it up to much bigger world to immerse in. Maybe then add some more involved quests that would actually add in some "lore" and feel to flesh out the game.
OK, after getting to this point, try to dive into making it a multiplayer game, to allow a few friends to join in, nothing too large, something that could handle maybe 4 friends joining in to allow work on stuff like chatting trading and grouping. I understand this would be a HUGE step, but to this point I would have gained a ton of experience with some game design and may be up to the task.
So hopefully you can see where this is going, gaining vital programming and design skills to slowly make a very involved game. All the while having a basic playable game that I can learn more complicated things with, while still being able to get the satisfaction of accopmlishment.
And yes, eventually taking these skills to a 3D game and maybe eventually being able to slowly make it handle more and more players. Hopefully some of the work that was done with the 2D game could be carried over to a 3D game, such as quest, vendor, chat and combat scripting, for example.
Alot of that would rely on the scripting for TGB (which I would start with) to be similar or the same as TGE and or TSE, which I really hope to be true (please say yes!)
So, basically, I would be starting with a very basic playable 2D game that can slowly become more and more involved. All the while, playable to some extent after each step and then, eventually, taking some of it with me when I dive into 3D and maybe some day developing into a fairly involved 3D game.
Just wanna get any comments or advice on this idea. Sorry for such a long post!
#2
So, off I go to learn TGB!
12/22/2006 (4:28 pm)
Hey thanks for the vote of confidence! I have been scanning Torque and many other forums for months learning everything I could, and yeah, I realise the biggest step would be the transition from 2D to 3D. I have Maya and have been doing quite a bit of modeling, so I'm not too concerned about that part. I also have Realmcrater, so I have a basic understanding of whats involved in 3D. RC, as nice as it is, led me to realise that I really need to start with the basics, mainly 2D simple stuff first to get some basic experienc with design and scripting. I've been eyeing TGE for a while, as I like the script language better than RC, which uses a variation of Basic rather than C++. But I decided to be smart about it and get the trial of TGB first.So, off I go to learn TGB!
#3
Second of all no post is ever too long :)
I also have to agree that you seem to have done your homework which is great not many people read any documentation, resources or even search forums. I think I found one guy who started making the box art first thing without even having a game design, probably wasn't serious anyway but just saying there are many people who want to do something but never look at how to do it and jump right into some random step and assume it'll all go to plan. The only advice I can offer right now is definatly go at it alone at first. It's the best thing you can do (of course I'm not saying don't ask for help - you should always ask about things you're unsure of), you can work at your own learning pace without any pressure from team members or even trying to manage a team which btw is a full time job. If and when you decide to involve a team especially if you're into making an MMO let me make it perfectly clear that managing a team is a full time job if you don;t feel like managing then get someone to handle that end of it. There's also project schedules, asset lists and design documents once you decide to get really "involved".
So yes, you're on the right track I wish you the very best of luck with your project I think you're going to do just fine :)
12/23/2006 (3:55 am)
First Welcome!Second of all no post is ever too long :)
I also have to agree that you seem to have done your homework which is great not many people read any documentation, resources or even search forums. I think I found one guy who started making the box art first thing without even having a game design, probably wasn't serious anyway but just saying there are many people who want to do something but never look at how to do it and jump right into some random step and assume it'll all go to plan. The only advice I can offer right now is definatly go at it alone at first. It's the best thing you can do (of course I'm not saying don't ask for help - you should always ask about things you're unsure of), you can work at your own learning pace without any pressure from team members or even trying to manage a team which btw is a full time job. If and when you decide to involve a team especially if you're into making an MMO let me make it perfectly clear that managing a team is a full time job if you don;t feel like managing then get someone to handle that end of it. There's also project schedules, asset lists and design documents once you decide to get really "involved".
So yes, you're on the right track I wish you the very best of luck with your project I think you're going to do just fine :)
#4
as for me, i think that the main weapon of GD is IDEA, but idea based on knowledge of instruments...
p.s. i recommend u to read this Book
and also HERE the first gamemakers that can make even text games interesting
12/23/2006 (7:08 am)
2d and 3d is only the instruments for the game designer, the whole idea (IMHO of course) is to make game interesting to play... its hard, but possible to do so. Every game element must be interesting and fun for the player. Example, some companies uses small and simple games while u seeing loadscreen, i see that trick on consoles, but never see this on PC games. And even working with game menu can become fun. For exapmle: you can add some playable element or scene that interacts when user makes his choices, I remember in "carmageddon" there was funny cursor (cutted hand), that places blooddrops on the screen while moving.. And so on, there is many trick, tips and other things that we can use to make our games more interesting and playable... as for me, i think that the main weapon of GD is IDEA, but idea based on knowledge of instruments...
p.s. i recommend u to read this Book
and also HERE the first gamemakers that can make even text games interesting
#5
If you think about the progression in a Legend of Zelda game, you start out with very little in the way of abilities. As you gain new abilities, new areas of the map become accessible to you. You have a very clear progress track. Gain Ability -> Enter New area - > Gain ability -> Enter New Area -> Repeat until end boss.
If you think about it, you could pretty easily build your game that way. Start by designing one area with one ability to get. Then when you're done with that, add some new exits that are only accessible with your new ability. Maybe sprinkle some collectible items in that area that can also only be gained with the new ability. So then design your next area and add another new ability to get. You can repeat this as long as you want and at every step, you have something resembling a complete game that gets expanded with each iteration.
When you get to small multiplayer, you can add a four swords type of approach with certain tasks requiring all four to join in at once.
I'd actually advise against an eventual switch to 3D though. There is this notion among many people that 3D is better than 2D and that simply isn't true. 2D isn't better than 3D. 3D isn't better than 2D. The amount of steps required to get a 3D model into a game is enormous (concept -> model -> UV - > Texture -> Rig -> Animate -> Prepare for Game Engine) in comparison to 2D games. (concept -> Draw - > Animate -> Put into sprite sheet or separate each image to a frame.)
If you want to work on 3D art, I suggest you do that separate from your own game because it will probably be the bottleneck in your process that keeps you from progressing steadily in game development.
12/23/2006 (10:22 am)
Creating a Zelda-style game actually seems like the best way to modularly create a game. If you think about the progression in a Legend of Zelda game, you start out with very little in the way of abilities. As you gain new abilities, new areas of the map become accessible to you. You have a very clear progress track. Gain Ability -> Enter New area - > Gain ability -> Enter New Area -> Repeat until end boss.
If you think about it, you could pretty easily build your game that way. Start by designing one area with one ability to get. Then when you're done with that, add some new exits that are only accessible with your new ability. Maybe sprinkle some collectible items in that area that can also only be gained with the new ability. So then design your next area and add another new ability to get. You can repeat this as long as you want and at every step, you have something resembling a complete game that gets expanded with each iteration.
When you get to small multiplayer, you can add a four swords type of approach with certain tasks requiring all four to join in at once.
I'd actually advise against an eventual switch to 3D though. There is this notion among many people that 3D is better than 2D and that simply isn't true. 2D isn't better than 3D. 3D isn't better than 2D. The amount of steps required to get a 3D model into a game is enormous (concept -> model -> UV - > Texture -> Rig -> Animate -> Prepare for Game Engine) in comparison to 2D games. (concept -> Draw - > Animate -> Put into sprite sheet or separate each image to a frame.)
If you want to work on 3D art, I suggest you do that separate from your own game because it will probably be the bottleneck in your process that keeps you from progressing steadily in game development.
Torque Owner Shiraz