Disabling console (and these forums)
by Tetraweb · in Torque Game Builder · 12/21/2006 (3:50 am) · 13 replies
Hi. I searched these forums, sort of (see below,) to find a method to disable the display of the console in packaged games and could not find it. I assume there must be a way to turn that off. What I ended up doing was putting an empty toggleConsole() function in my main.cs and that works, but I wonder if there is a more official way.
Searching these forums is frustrating. The google search method is too broad, it pulls results from forums I am not allowed to look at, so I get promising topics that I am not allowed to see, etc...
A more robust forum system with better searching would be great, something like vBulletin or PHPForums or any of the mature, secure forum systems. I am a web programmer in my real job, and would be happy to assist in setting it up and transferring all the posts over if anyone at GG is interested.
Thanks.
Greg
Searching these forums is frustrating. The google search method is too broad, it pulls results from forums I am not allowed to look at, so I get promising topics that I am not allowed to see, etc...
A more robust forum system with better searching would be great, something like vBulletin or PHPForums or any of the mature, secure forum systems. I am a web programmer in my real job, and would be happy to assist in setting it up and transferring all the posts over if anyone at GG is interested.
Thanks.
Greg
#2
12/21/2006 (8:12 am)
We are looking for web programmers. ricko at garagegames dot com if you are interested.
#3
12/21/2006 (8:34 am)
Just remove the keybind for the tilde key in your final game, or cut out the methods as mentioned above.
#4
12/21/2006 (5:16 pm)
Greg, I agree with you on the searching the forums issue for me as well, I feel google search works well and the forums are nice and clean and for the most part easy to navigate, there are some features I do like to havelike searching with in a thread for a keyword or limiting your search to specific forums. I have been using vBulletin for five years in January and other than not having a LDAP plugin I give it two thumbs way up in terms of ease of use and customization :)
#5
12/21/2006 (7:42 pm)
We do not want to have a separate log in for forums. I don't know how to have a better search mechanism than Google.
#6
12/21/2006 (8:56 pm)
I agree, a seperate login for the forums would be horrible and yes google is an excellent search engine, but it would be nice to have options like searching within a thread you have open or locking a search to a specific forum, not just using a keyword + TGB. Just little tools to help cut down on what a person has to sort through when they search would be great. :-)
#7
You're kidding, right?
To assume that a generic Google search is the best possible method out there is absurd. Admit it, you just don't want to go through the work required to convert to a better system. Frankly, it would be better to start a completely new forum, with proper search abilities, than to continue with the mess you currently have. There is a reason people continually ask the same questions over and over again.
As long as a stock response from GG is to "search the forums", you need to provide better searching.
12/22/2006 (10:58 am)
Quote:I don't know how to have a better search mechanism than Google.
You're kidding, right?
To assume that a generic Google search is the best possible method out there is absurd. Admit it, you just don't want to go through the work required to convert to a better system. Frankly, it would be better to start a completely new forum, with proper search abilities, than to continue with the mess you currently have. There is a reason people continually ask the same questions over and over again.
As long as a stock response from GG is to "search the forums", you need to provide better searching.
#8
Wow... that was very rude considering how considerately Jeff was responding. Plus thats very obviously not the case. Google is one of the most powerful (if not the most) search engines out there. Especially considering we are sporting a Google mini server. As you can imagine we definately aren't avoiding work by integrating such a powerful piece of technology.
Yes, sometimes because of the search, though personally when I look for things I typically find it fairly quick. Though many times people don't find the answer because they simply don't want to work to find the answer. They would rather someone tell them how to make their game or simply do it for them. In fact it's arguable that 90% of the time this is the case. The other 10% of the time it isn't and we happily respond to questions posted (as well as other helpful community members).
In any case, making rude comments is not the way to get results and get us to consider your suggestions. They are appreciated though the tone is definately not.
12/27/2006 (9:53 am)
Quote:Admit it, you just don't want to go through the work required to convert to a better system.
Wow... that was very rude considering how considerately Jeff was responding. Plus thats very obviously not the case. Google is one of the most powerful (if not the most) search engines out there. Especially considering we are sporting a Google mini server. As you can imagine we definately aren't avoiding work by integrating such a powerful piece of technology.
Quote:There is a reason people continually ask the same questions over and over again.
Yes, sometimes because of the search, though personally when I look for things I typically find it fairly quick. Though many times people don't find the answer because they simply don't want to work to find the answer. They would rather someone tell them how to make their game or simply do it for them. In fact it's arguable that 90% of the time this is the case. The other 10% of the time it isn't and we happily respond to questions posted (as well as other helpful community members).
In any case, making rude comments is not the way to get results and get us to consider your suggestions. They are appreciated though the tone is definately not.
#9
The Google web search api is a sledgehammer approach to searching, and forums are a very much a channeled, narrow source of information. A chainsaw is a great tool for cutting, but it's not the best way to mow your grass. Google finds everything, even things that are useless or irrelevant. So when I search, most of the results are either from some other document, mentioned briefly and unrelated, or from a forum to which I don't have access.
I promise I am not lazy, and I am not looking for someone to do any work for me. As a GG employee, you never get to experience the frustration of getting a forum search result with a teasing caption that sounds just like what you are looking for, only to be told when you click on it that you are not able to view it.
Greg
12/27/2006 (3:51 pm)
I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment. I am a seasoned web user, and I have been using and posting in forums for more than a decade. I have been using TGB for about six months, and I love it completely. However, when I search this site for answers to questions which must have been already asked a dozen times, it is usually a frustrating experience.The Google web search api is a sledgehammer approach to searching, and forums are a very much a channeled, narrow source of information. A chainsaw is a great tool for cutting, but it's not the best way to mow your grass. Google finds everything, even things that are useless or irrelevant. So when I search, most of the results are either from some other document, mentioned briefly and unrelated, or from a forum to which I don't have access.
I promise I am not lazy, and I am not looking for someone to do any work for me. As a GG employee, you never get to experience the frustration of getting a forum search result with a teasing caption that sounds just like what you are looking for, only to be told when you click on it that you are not able to view it.
Greg
#10
I somewhat agree with Don's point (that you are supporting). What I was disagreeing with was his approach and tone. ex.
I typically find the answers I want since I spend plenty of time looking them. I definately agree that it could be better, but it definately could be worse.
I wouldn't say you are :) I have over 3,000 posts. Not because I feel I should respond to lazy people, but because there are some very good questions with hard to find answers from great people.
This is the one point I will disagree with though. Before being a GG Employee I was a very active community member for 1 1/2+ years. Most of the time was before the Google search was added. Trust me when I say that the Google search is 100 times better than the previous search, without a doubt (any person here before them will definately have some sour words to share with the old system). Before working at GG I wrote 10 tutorials for TGB (called T2D back then), completely on my own time (the longest being 88 pages). The engine only had Melv and Josh W. working on it and came with only one tutorial. I spent a huge ammount of time compiling a lot of data into those tutorials (and a FAQ at the time) for the very reason you are posting about. I definately realize the issue, if anything, being on the other end and repeatedly answering questions that I know could be found with a better search makes me realize it all the more. You are effected by it when you look for something and post because you can't find it, I am effected by it everytime someone does that. Not going for sympathy, just a bit of understanding.
What I'm saying isn't that the present solution is the best one. What I am saying is it is very obvious we have put effort into finding a suitable solution. Also considering that until Sean and Jacob came on board it was just Rick running the entire site and doing all web work and updates. Right now we have more but we are also running GGE and have more on this web site going than it ever had before.
I understand the analogy and agree to a limited point. There may be further work that can be done using the Google mini to do much more fine tune searches. As it is you can specify resources, forums, etc. As a web dev I'm sure you realize this means that it could be more fine tuned.
To me Google is simply an engine with a whole lot of horsepower but a car with bad steering. Google itself is not the problem. The problem is the control of it to fine tune your searches. They both can co-exist so that is where I think your and Don's mindset is incorrect. It just will take a lot of work on the forums. In that case Don is right to an extent.
I'm basically just pointing out we aren't sitting here with our legs kicked up on the web server, drinking scotch and whiskey all day. Our web devs have been amazingly busy and productive and the rest of the site has undergone some major updates (as well as GGE being created). All that with a very small web crew (that not so long ago grew from 1 to 3).
The request and suggestion is valid, though demanding to travel in a car with no gas won't fill it's tank. You've stated your request in a very respectful manner. On the other hand Don was not. I was simply responding to his tone and attitude towards the issue. Unlike you, he failed to realize that getting someone to listen to you and take your suggestion is much better done through a respectful request.
12/27/2006 (4:41 pm)
@Greg:I somewhat agree with Don's point (that you are supporting). What I was disagreeing with was his approach and tone. ex.
Quote:Admit it, you just don't want to go through the work required to convert to a better system.
I typically find the answers I want since I spend plenty of time looking them. I definately agree that it could be better, but it definately could be worse.
Quote:I promise I am not lazy
I wouldn't say you are :) I have over 3,000 posts. Not because I feel I should respond to lazy people, but because there are some very good questions with hard to find answers from great people.
Quote:As a GG employee, you never get to experience the frustration of getting a forum search result with a teasing caption that sounds just like what you are looking for, only to be told when you click on it that you are not able to view it.
This is the one point I will disagree with though. Before being a GG Employee I was a very active community member for 1 1/2+ years. Most of the time was before the Google search was added. Trust me when I say that the Google search is 100 times better than the previous search, without a doubt (any person here before them will definately have some sour words to share with the old system). Before working at GG I wrote 10 tutorials for TGB (called T2D back then), completely on my own time (the longest being 88 pages). The engine only had Melv and Josh W. working on it and came with only one tutorial. I spent a huge ammount of time compiling a lot of data into those tutorials (and a FAQ at the time) for the very reason you are posting about. I definately realize the issue, if anything, being on the other end and repeatedly answering questions that I know could be found with a better search makes me realize it all the more. You are effected by it when you look for something and post because you can't find it, I am effected by it everytime someone does that. Not going for sympathy, just a bit of understanding.
What I'm saying isn't that the present solution is the best one. What I am saying is it is very obvious we have put effort into finding a suitable solution. Also considering that until Sean and Jacob came on board it was just Rick running the entire site and doing all web work and updates. Right now we have more but we are also running GGE and have more on this web site going than it ever had before.
Quote:The Google web search api is a sledgehammer approach to searching
I understand the analogy and agree to a limited point. There may be further work that can be done using the Google mini to do much more fine tune searches. As it is you can specify resources, forums, etc. As a web dev I'm sure you realize this means that it could be more fine tuned.
To me Google is simply an engine with a whole lot of horsepower but a car with bad steering. Google itself is not the problem. The problem is the control of it to fine tune your searches. They both can co-exist so that is where I think your and Don's mindset is incorrect. It just will take a lot of work on the forums. In that case Don is right to an extent.
I'm basically just pointing out we aren't sitting here with our legs kicked up on the web server, drinking scotch and whiskey all day. Our web devs have been amazingly busy and productive and the rest of the site has undergone some major updates (as well as GGE being created). All that with a very small web crew (that not so long ago grew from 1 to 3).
The request and suggestion is valid, though demanding to travel in a car with no gas won't fill it's tank. You've stated your request in a very respectful manner. On the other hand Don was not. I was simply responding to his tone and attitude towards the issue. Unlike you, he failed to realize that getting someone to listen to you and take your suggestion is much better done through a respectful request.
#11
Your hard work is appreciated, and your points are well taken. Quibbles about search methods are minor in the scheme of things. I have to get back to my tutorial now. Thanks.
Greg
12/28/2006 (5:37 am)
Well, what can I say when I have this thread open in one tab and in another tab I am going through the tutorial "Creating A Path Point System," and then I look at the author and it is you. Your hard work is appreciated, and your points are well taken. Quibbles about search methods are minor in the scheme of things. I have to get back to my tutorial now. Thanks.
Greg
#12
What I should have said...
Please give us the ability to limit our searches to a specific forum.
Short, sweet, to the point; and without needless commentary!
An aside... These forums were instrumental in helping me to take my first game to market. MahJong Tradition (released in late October) is experiencing modest success; and this would not have been possible so soon without the help of many of you kind folks.
12/28/2006 (9:40 am)
Thank you for the smack-down, Matthew. My comments were over the top. It's easy to get frustrated with the search abilities on these forums, and that colored my comments; but you are right that my tone was wrong. The problem with making acerbic comments is that it turns the discussion away from the issue itself. For this reason, you are quite correct that comments / suggestions should be offered in a respectful manner.What I should have said...
Please give us the ability to limit our searches to a specific forum.
Short, sweet, to the point; and without needless commentary!
An aside... These forums were instrumental in helping me to take my first game to market. MahJong Tradition (released in late October) is experiencing modest success; and this would not have been possible so soon without the help of many of you kind folks.
#13
The reason you get the "you don't have access to this content" is because it is in an area that is for another product -- i.e. you own TGB and it's a TGE-A post.
12/28/2006 (9:58 am)
For the record guys I've been pushing for the exact same things everyone has been asking for, but in truth the google mini is a closed appliance, and while you can tune the indexing, you can't limit it.The reason you get the "you don't have access to this content" is because it is in an area that is for another product -- i.e. you own TGB and it's a TGE-A post.
Torque Owner Matthew "Ashteth" Kee
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