TSE community SVN?
by Pauliver · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 11/14/2006 (2:38 pm) · 7 replies
While the "can't control who has access" is a problem, there is the same risk that you will download your tse installer and give it to your buddy, as you will give your buddy your svn access.
Or do you mean GG themselves don't get to pick who has access to it?
*Edit*
While managing a community SVN for the TGE community would be impractical, the number of people active on these TSE forums who aren't like "OMG I DONT KNOW WHAT IM DOING MAKE IT WORK" is a more manageable number of users [probably 50ish maybe only 30] and would put the best minds in Torque together for faster bug fixes and less work for all involved.
Or do you mean GG themselves don't get to pick who has access to it?
*Edit*
While managing a community SVN for the TGE community would be impractical, the number of people active on these TSE forums who aren't like "OMG I DONT KNOW WHAT IM DOING MAKE IT WORK" is a more manageable number of users [probably 50ish maybe only 30] and would put the best minds in Torque together for faster bug fixes and less work for all involved.
#2
There are literally hundreds of resource-hours that have been spent discussing the entire deployment strategy for our product, both in the past and for the future, and the repository based distribution system has many more costs than it does benefits in the long run.
We are still looking at possible alternatives to make code merges easier, but as a primary (or even secondary) distribution mechanism, repository based access isn't in the Torque future.
11/14/2006 (2:46 pm)
I'd like to nip this in the bud--I am 99.9% certain this won't happen, so discussing various iterations isn't going to do much good except set everyone up for disapointment.There are literally hundreds of resource-hours that have been spent discussing the entire deployment strategy for our product, both in the past and for the future, and the repository based distribution system has many more costs than it does benefits in the long run.
We are still looking at possible alternatives to make code merges easier, but as a primary (or even secondary) distribution mechanism, repository based access isn't in the Torque future.
#3
My speculations on the reasons:
1. No security. This is probably number one. One less chance for someone able to pirate their code.
2. Since GG only allows installers, that means SVN will have the same stuff as the installer will have.
Why have a community SVN server with the same files as the installer has?
3. Less aggravation with all the people that complain about 'foo' feature that still being tested and worked on.
I personally like the installer method better. I can then upload it to my own SVN server. Though a weekly or by-weekly build would be nice.
Edit: Must have been typing my post when Stephen posted.
Disregard my rant!!
11/14/2006 (2:59 pm)
I highly doubt GG will let anyone set up a community SVN.My speculations on the reasons:
1. No security. This is probably number one. One less chance for someone able to pirate their code.
2. Since GG only allows installers, that means SVN will have the same stuff as the installer will have.
Why have a community SVN server with the same files as the installer has?
3. Less aggravation with all the people that complain about 'foo' feature that still being tested and worked on.
I personally like the installer method better. I can then upload it to my own SVN server. Though a weekly or by-weekly build would be nice.
Edit: Must have been typing my post when Stephen posted.
Disregard my rant!!
#4
In the past, before TSE, before TGB, way back when.. There were rolling updates (almost daily updates) which was awesome, but I could see how that was a bit costly bandwidth wise.
Then, there were updates, but not as often due to the integration of an Internal SVN where changes could be pushed to, and builds "checked" before things are pushed out (although there always seemed to be serious issues). In any case, you had a Quota per user to keep them from just whoring up the CVS Server bandwidth and kept people from just getting files from CVS all of the time...
Now, there is no CVS, but instead a downloadable Installer that may or may not get updated more/less frequently. A serious issues arises in a downloadable build and the chances of a new installer being pushed out have gone down drastically. If one is pushed out, its another 40-50mb download per user who wants to update to the latest, plus time taken to source diff and find any changes.
This raises the question, where is costs saved at? CVS was limited to a certain amount of Downloading, downloading an installer isn't... or if it is, there is no indication that this is the case. This would mean a person or many persons could just download the installer over and over and totally burn more bandwidth than having CVS/SVN would/does.
Something to think about....
11/14/2006 (5:43 pm)
I have a question about the "many more costs" response...In the past, before TSE, before TGB, way back when.. There were rolling updates (almost daily updates) which was awesome, but I could see how that was a bit costly bandwidth wise.
Then, there were updates, but not as often due to the integration of an Internal SVN where changes could be pushed to, and builds "checked" before things are pushed out (although there always seemed to be serious issues). In any case, you had a Quota per user to keep them from just whoring up the CVS Server bandwidth and kept people from just getting files from CVS all of the time...
Now, there is no CVS, but instead a downloadable Installer that may or may not get updated more/less frequently. A serious issues arises in a downloadable build and the chances of a new installer being pushed out have gone down drastically. If one is pushed out, its another 40-50mb download per user who wants to update to the latest, plus time taken to source diff and find any changes.
This raises the question, where is costs saved at? CVS was limited to a certain amount of Downloading, downloading an installer isn't... or if it is, there is no indication that this is the case. This would mean a person or many persons could just download the installer over and over and totally burn more bandwidth than having CVS/SVN would/does.
Something to think about....
#5
That's the cost, not bandwidth issues (although that is a small factor).
11/15/2006 (12:20 am)
Cost isn't money...it's time. It takes a LOT of work to grab a section of SVN, check it out, build it, test it, push it over to the CVS, build it, test it, check in.That's the cost, not bandwidth issues (although that is a small factor).
#6
We maintain 2 SVN repositories as well an internal and an external and when we want to push an update it's a simple right click and merge operation in tortoise. Seems to me that would be quicker, easier and cheaper than an installer based solution.
12/07/2006 (7:21 am)
Not to kick a dead horse further, but why use SVN internally and CVS externally?We maintain 2 SVN repositories as well an internal and an external and when we want to push an update it's a simple right click and merge operation in tortoise. Seems to me that would be quicker, easier and cheaper than an installer based solution.
#7
Is there a way to tell if you have the latest version of TGB/TGE/TSE/RTS etc? Or has GG now reached a point where they no longer offer fixes between major/minor revision numbers? I can deal (unhappily) with the fact I no longer have CVS to get bug fixes but as far as I can tell if GG does fix a bug in a current version I have no way to find out about it other than doing a complete new download and then a file comparison with a previous untouched version.
I know that there are postings of bugs that GG has fixed enhancements etc. over in Mantis, but there is no way to know if these have been migrated to a version I would get if I actually downloaded say, a new copy of TSE. There is also some feature discussion in TDN, but there is nothing to say, "TSE is now at version X.XX.XXX and you can get the latest one."
12/11/2006 (7:39 am)
On a related note.Is there a way to tell if you have the latest version of TGB/TGE/TSE/RTS etc? Or has GG now reached a point where they no longer offer fixes between major/minor revision numbers? I can deal (unhappily) with the fact I no longer have CVS to get bug fixes but as far as I can tell if GG does fix a bug in a current version I have no way to find out about it other than doing a complete new download and then a file comparison with a previous untouched version.
I know that there are postings of bugs that GG has fixed enhancements etc. over in Mantis, but there is no way to know if these have been migrated to a version I would get if I actually downloaded say, a new copy of TSE. There is also some feature discussion in TDN, but there is nothing to say, "TSE is now at version X.XX.XXX and you can get the latest one."
Torque 3D Owner Michael Cozzolino
Big Monk Games