3D Modeller looking for project
by Shubro Biswas · in Jobs · 07/26/2006 (2:18 am) · 18 replies
Hello GG Community,
I am looking for a MMO that is currently using TGE Or TSE. Please note that I will not apply tounachievable projects . If you need a proof of my work please do not hesitate to email me at manofpower1993@yahoo.co.nz . I am looking for realistic games similar to Adellion
(www.adellion.com) . I prefer games that are newly in developement or still in design phase.
Thanking you,
Jake Hofteman
I am looking for a MMO that is currently using TGE Or TSE. Please note that I will not apply tounachievable projects . If you need a proof of my work please do not hesitate to email me at manofpower1993@yahoo.co.nz . I am looking for realistic games similar to Adellion
(www.adellion.com) . I prefer games that are newly in developement or still in design phase.
Thanking you,
Jake Hofteman
#2
Lies
http://prairiegames.com
Look at minions of mirth, its an indie mmo, VERY acheivable. And my game im working on is an indie MMO, and its takeing progress. Maybe its just unachieveable to YOU, because your a slacker, You dont need thousonds of dollars to make a game. Ive only spent about $200 and its at professional quality.
@Jake:
I might need you to make some ranged weapons, I'll email you later.
07/26/2006 (3:20 am)
@Weston:Lies
http://prairiegames.com
Look at minions of mirth, its an indie mmo, VERY acheivable. And my game im working on is an indie MMO, and its takeing progress. Maybe its just unachieveable to YOU, because your a slacker, You dont need thousonds of dollars to make a game. Ive only spent about $200 and its at professional quality.
@Jake:
I might need you to make some ranged weapons, I'll email you later.
#3
The single biggest misconception among indies (and pros for that matter) in this industry, is how much time and energy it takes to create a quality game.
It's also one of the biggest indicators of experience level. The smaller the game someone is trying to start, the more experience they have. Just look at the GG in-house projects for a sense of achievable scale.
I know it's exciting to think about working on an indy MMO, but it will never be competitive (if it ever gets finished). If you want it that bad, apply for a job at Blizzard or Arena Net.
-Weston
07/26/2006 (4:42 am)
@MaxwellThe single biggest misconception among indies (and pros for that matter) in this industry, is how much time and energy it takes to create a quality game.
It's also one of the biggest indicators of experience level. The smaller the game someone is trying to start, the more experience they have. Just look at the GG in-house projects for a sense of achievable scale.
I know it's exciting to think about working on an indy MMO, but it will never be competitive (if it ever gets finished). If you want it that bad, apply for a job at Blizzard or Arena Net.
-Weston
#4
Now MoM team is made of experienced developpers. Josh also had enough money to contract some of the best artist in GG community. You could also consider is an alien that is never sleeping or eating and can achieve 5X more work than any of us. :)
MoM is good, but let's speak only on the art side, is it really competitive with Blizzard games or Arena or any actual MMORPG? Not really. It's not a matter of skill there, it's a matter of ressource. With a bigger team, or with the same and a few more years it could have looked as good as WoW. TGE has the power to do that, but an indie team can't because a MMORPG is such a huge project.
On a sidenote Maxwell, when you'll reach Weston skills and experience, your comment will surely evolve...
07/26/2006 (5:30 am)
MoM has both a positive and negative effect on the community. It's positive cause it proves you can make an MMO with TGE and negative because it proves you can make an MMO with TGE.Now MoM team is made of experienced developpers. Josh also had enough money to contract some of the best artist in GG community. You could also consider is an alien that is never sleeping or eating and can achieve 5X more work than any of us. :)
MoM is good, but let's speak only on the art side, is it really competitive with Blizzard games or Arena or any actual MMORPG? Not really. It's not a matter of skill there, it's a matter of ressource. With a bigger team, or with the same and a few more years it could have looked as good as WoW. TGE has the power to do that, but an indie team can't because a MMORPG is such a huge project.
On a sidenote Maxwell, when you'll reach Weston skills and experience, your comment will surely evolve...
#5
07/26/2006 (5:56 am)
I won't comment directly on the quality of MoM. But I would suggest that if the effort put into that project were put into a casual title, it would have at least the possibility of being competitive with top of the line casual games. An Indy MMO will never compete with top MMOs. I'm sure the guy(s) at Prairiegames would agree.
#6
The only difference between Indie and Commercial games are budgets, and fun. Indie games are more like hobbies, but that doesnt mean they cant make some money and compete with other MMO's. Commercial games are strictly for money, usually done by a big corperation. Just becauase someone has an Indie liscence does not mean their games wont be as good as Commercial games. It all has to do with Knowledge, and dedication.
07/26/2006 (7:23 am)
@Weston:The only difference between Indie and Commercial games are budgets, and fun. Indie games are more like hobbies, but that doesnt mean they cant make some money and compete with other MMO's. Commercial games are strictly for money, usually done by a big corperation. Just becauase someone has an Indie liscence does not mean their games wont be as good as Commercial games. It all has to do with Knowledge, and dedication.
#7
07/27/2006 (12:25 am)
Also another game that was mostly volunteer run is Adellion. It has been in developement for around 7 years and has accumalated over 2000 fans in its forums. 
#8
@Ben: "Now MoM team is made of experienced developers." - Actually, MoM is Lara's first game ever and she's 50% of the PG staff :) We contracted (and continue to contract) with some great talent and licensed some excellent content packs. We have also opened the game up for modding and received tremendous content submissions from our community.
@Weston: The concept of quality is extremely subjective and is related to the idea of value. For indies, I sense that you put a lot of weight on graphical quality and finely polished casual gameplay. That's not exactly our market. It's true that every aspect of our game isn't finely polished. Though, for the folks that like the game it's far more than the sum of it's parts. We offer a huge online and single player game world with loads and loads and loads of stuff to do in it. MoM is doing very well for us. I don't have any plans to apply at Blizzard or Arena.net ;)
MoM is very much a warm up for our company. We've learned a whole lot by creating it. The next game is going to be a lot of fun too! :)
-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games, Inc
07/27/2006 (1:06 am)
@Jake: It could be very difficult to find an achievable indie MMORPG to work on. They appear to be a pretty rare bird. I've produced, designed, and programmed one and even after that I really don't have much concrete advice to give for anyone outside of our situation. I can say is that if achievable is your main criteria, you may want to open up your genre requirements a bit?@Ben: "Now MoM team is made of experienced developers." - Actually, MoM is Lara's first game ever and she's 50% of the PG staff :) We contracted (and continue to contract) with some great talent and licensed some excellent content packs. We have also opened the game up for modding and received tremendous content submissions from our community.
@Weston: The concept of quality is extremely subjective and is related to the idea of value. For indies, I sense that you put a lot of weight on graphical quality and finely polished casual gameplay. That's not exactly our market. It's true that every aspect of our game isn't finely polished. Though, for the folks that like the game it's far more than the sum of it's parts. We offer a huge online and single player game world with loads and loads and loads of stuff to do in it. MoM is doing very well for us. I don't have any plans to apply at Blizzard or Arena.net ;)
MoM is very much a warm up for our company. We've learned a whole lot by creating it. The next game is going to be a lot of fun too! :)
-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games, Inc
#9
I have never bought a single casual game. They don't interest me. I bought MoM. I also bought WoW. It's BS to state that MoM has to somehow "compete" with WoW to be validated. As far as I can see, MoM really doesn't have any competition at all.
07/27/2006 (2:21 am)
I've been playing MoM since it launched. MoM is a very entertaining game. It's obvious to me the amount of thought and dedication that went into the game. That's quality. It's also important to note that MoM is updated constantly with new content and features. We're not talking about fluff and solely bug fixes either.I have never bought a single casual game. They don't interest me. I bought MoM. I also bought WoW. It's BS to state that MoM has to somehow "compete" with WoW to be validated. As far as I can see, MoM really doesn't have any competition at all.
#10
My point is simply this: As many of us know so well, being an Indy is defined by major constraints on time and resources. Given these constraints, why take on the single most complicated, time consuming, massive genre in gaming?
@Frank
I never said MoM has to be competitive with the top MMOs. I'm saying it can't compete. And that's not a dig on Josh or Prairie games. In fact I think what has happened over there is incredible. I have a lot of respect for MoM. There just seems to be a mass denial in the Indy community over what's practical.
My first post in this thread was intended to represent the word 'quality' as professionally competitive. As I re-read Jake's initial post, I see that he didn't set any qualifications for quality, just completion.
-Weston
07/27/2006 (2:45 am)
@JoshMy point is simply this: As many of us know so well, being an Indy is defined by major constraints on time and resources. Given these constraints, why take on the single most complicated, time consuming, massive genre in gaming?
@Frank
I never said MoM has to be competitive with the top MMOs. I'm saying it can't compete. And that's not a dig on Josh or Prairie games. In fact I think what has happened over there is incredible. I have a lot of respect for MoM. There just seems to be a mass denial in the Indy community over what's practical.
My first post in this thread was intended to represent the word 'quality' as professionally competitive. As I re-read Jake's initial post, I see that he didn't set any qualifications for quality, just completion.
-Weston
#11
-JR
07/27/2006 (3:30 am)
@Weston: "Given these constraints, why take on the single most complicated, time consuming, massive genre in gaming?" - I want to and I'm relatively good at it... There's a demand for these games... they're fun to create... it's challenging... I find it rewarding... the usual stuff.-JR
#12
And yes it looks like the classic MMO thread. I think, like me, lot of people would like to see more games finished in the indie world, and that's not what an MMO can offer easily.
I'm sure you can learn as much making a smaller game and let the world play with your work at the end :)
Don't you think it would looks cool to have a lot of 3d games coming from the community?
That would motivate a lot more the community than a few concept art for a MMO than will never born.
That's just my opinion, maybe not everyone share it. :)
(Josh I can see you pushing that edit button a lot :-D)
07/27/2006 (4:57 am)
I thought Lara was working on public relation and marketing :) Well then congrats to her on shipping a game at first try. But by experienced, I wasn't only thinking about having made a game before, it's also about maturity and life experience. You can't create if you haven't seen, heard, lived before IMO..And yes it looks like the classic MMO thread. I think, like me, lot of people would like to see more games finished in the indie world, and that's not what an MMO can offer easily.
I'm sure you can learn as much making a smaller game and let the world play with your work at the end :)
Don't you think it would looks cool to have a lot of 3d games coming from the community?
That would motivate a lot more the community than a few concept art for a MMO than will never born.
That's just my opinion, maybe not everyone share it. :)
(Josh I can see you pushing that edit button a lot :-D)
#13
In a way, though, its a valuable lesson. if you want to buld a huge game, go ahead and try. You wont finish it and you'll be smarter for it. It will show you the importance of scoping and prototyping and all the stuff that the vets write about all the time on these boards but very few people seem to take to heart. :)
07/27/2006 (7:16 am)
I have to agree with Weston here. I personally find what Prarie Games has done to be nothing short of incredible. But, at least in this community, there are a lot of people who show up and say "cool, i can make my own game!" and immediately set out to build a halo killer or something thats comparable. They love games, but they lack the time in the trenches to know that finishing a game people want to play is the hardest job you can have, regardless of size.In a way, though, its a valuable lesson. if you want to buld a huge game, go ahead and try. You wont finish it and you'll be smarter for it. It will show you the importance of scoping and prototyping and all the stuff that the vets write about all the time on these boards but very few people seem to take to heart. :)
#14
When deGrandis & Weston truely want to go to the next level of understanding the MMO market, and understand more about what the folks at www.prairiegames.com want to be when they grow up, they should look at Runescape. A mere handful of about 6 people who built a simple looking game (although it is the best designed game ever) that runs under Java in a browser. They have over 5 million registered users; and have had over 5 million registered users long before WoW was even conceptual art. They have over 673,000 users paying subscriptions of $5 per month, which equates to $40 million dollars per year, for 6 people and 40 servers.
For 15 wasted years the MMORPG industry chased Everquest. Those of us in the know are NOT going to chase WoW for the next 15. Not when there's Indie success like Runscape, right there in front of you. Think outside the box folks. There are over 10 million people out there now, comfortable with the idea of making a credit card relationship with online gaming. There are NO more rules. We can make and try ANYTHING.
Randel
07/27/2006 (9:02 am)
I've been working on online games for 20 years. Back in the day when we called the internet, "telecom." As a studio director at Sony I launched the Playstation 2 network adapter. I've built a currently live 3D social teen MMO that is downloadable from a Geffen Records fan site. I'm currently a consultant to Perpetual Entertainment, makers of Gods & Heroes and Star Trek Online MMORPGs. I'm also a consultant to Turbine, makers of Asheron's Call, Dungeon & Dragons Online, and Lord of the Rings MMORPGs.When deGrandis & Weston truely want to go to the next level of understanding the MMO market, and understand more about what the folks at www.prairiegames.com want to be when they grow up, they should look at Runescape. A mere handful of about 6 people who built a simple looking game (although it is the best designed game ever) that runs under Java in a browser. They have over 5 million registered users; and have had over 5 million registered users long before WoW was even conceptual art. They have over 673,000 users paying subscriptions of $5 per month, which equates to $40 million dollars per year, for 6 people and 40 servers.
For 15 wasted years the MMORPG industry chased Everquest. Those of us in the know are NOT going to chase WoW for the next 15. Not when there's Indie success like Runscape, right there in front of you. Think outside the box folks. There are over 10 million people out there now, comfortable with the idea of making a credit card relationship with online gaming. There are NO more rules. We can make and try ANYTHING.
Randel
#15
07/27/2006 (9:18 am)
Silly forum software double posted me for some reason.
#16
-JR
07/27/2006 (10:30 am)
@Ben: "I thought Lara was working on public relation and marketing" - She does that and is also a producer. Additionally,she laid out the game's 14 zones, did the bulk of the quests (including tne 2 main realm quests), and a whole bunch of other stuff. She even takes care of payroll. Did I mention we both work a LOT? ;)-JR
#17
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but some of your facts are quite misleading. First off there are a lot more than 6 people working on Runescape. Just on maintenance (according to their own credits list) there are about 200. Second, many of the people playing are playing on free accounts. In fact, the game was completely free until it was taken over recently by its current owner.
On a side note, in addition to laying down accurate facts, you'll want to avoid statements like "It is the best designed game ever" if you want people to take you seriously.
@Josh
I'd love to hear stats on MoM if you're comfortable sharing financial data. How many players, how fast has your membership grown etc.
-Weston
07/27/2006 (8:02 pm)
@RandelI appreciate your enthusiasm, but some of your facts are quite misleading. First off there are a lot more than 6 people working on Runescape. Just on maintenance (according to their own credits list) there are about 200. Second, many of the people playing are playing on free accounts. In fact, the game was completely free until it was taken over recently by its current owner.
On a side note, in addition to laying down accurate facts, you'll want to avoid statements like "It is the best designed game ever" if you want people to take you seriously.
@Josh
I'd love to hear stats on MoM if you're comfortable sharing financial data. How many players, how fast has your membership grown etc.
-Weston
#18
The average players online count has increased by around 25 players over the last couple months... so, it's more or less constant. Though, I have this feeling we're going to hit some kind of critical mass and be swamped. That wouldn't be a bad thing as our server system is setup so we can just throw boxes at it. It would kind of overload our 2 person company however.
We're running around a 15% conversion rate based on registrations vs. sales... Since we put more restrictions on our demo version and re-introduced some sales materials into the game, the sales have increased. Which is encouraging, because we're actually starting to see what works and what doesn't... One of the frustrating things is that we'll see a spike in registrations/sales and we'll have no idea why... like over the last 4 days, we have seen a 300% increase in registrations and have no idea where this is coming from... the last time that happened was our PC Gamer review...
We've had no marketing campaign to date for the game. We have also sold it solely through our website and no other portal. We've been able to manage all the support, sales, etc so far... We're picking up steam and we do have plans to actually market this sucker. My best projection is that we'll see something like a 10x increase in MoM players over the coming year. That would be 600 players online... we'll need to add some more people to handle this :)
We have another game warming up in the pen too... it should be pretty cool. :)
-JR
07/27/2006 (8:53 pm)
There are currently 60 players on our servers, another 20 connected to the chat system from single player, and I don't know how many are playing single player without the chat connection. So, at this moment there's probably something like 100 people playing MoM. It's quite surprising to me how many folks buy the game and either play single player or don't play at all. The online head count really doesn't reflect the sales data in any meaningful way. I don't want to share the numbers in this public forum. I will say that we're doing better than anticipated. We really do have our feet on the ground about all this :)The average players online count has increased by around 25 players over the last couple months... so, it's more or less constant. Though, I have this feeling we're going to hit some kind of critical mass and be swamped. That wouldn't be a bad thing as our server system is setup so we can just throw boxes at it. It would kind of overload our 2 person company however.
We're running around a 15% conversion rate based on registrations vs. sales... Since we put more restrictions on our demo version and re-introduced some sales materials into the game, the sales have increased. Which is encouraging, because we're actually starting to see what works and what doesn't... One of the frustrating things is that we'll see a spike in registrations/sales and we'll have no idea why... like over the last 4 days, we have seen a 300% increase in registrations and have no idea where this is coming from... the last time that happened was our PC Gamer review...
We've had no marketing campaign to date for the game. We have also sold it solely through our website and no other portal. We've been able to manage all the support, sales, etc so far... We're picking up steam and we do have plans to actually market this sucker. My best projection is that we'll see something like a 10x increase in MoM players over the coming year. That would be 600 players online... we'll need to add some more people to handle this :)
We have another game warming up in the pen too... it should be pretty cool. :)
-JR
Torque Owner Weston Tracy