Blu-ray, do we need the extra storage space?
by Don Martin · in General Discussion · 07/08/2006 (9:34 am) · 12 replies
Data storage. BR does contain signifagently more stoare space the DVD5, DVD9 ect. But will developers actually use the extra space? Now dont get me wrong - more space is always good. But have DVD formats already become to small? Sony, for one, seems to beleive so as they are building their next gen system around this. A system that enters this gen as the current console leader. I guess it helps that Sony has a steak in Blu-rays success but...
Developing a top game for established dev's usually costs a ton of money and takes a long time (2+ years from start to finish). ANd this is just in DVD format with DVD space limitations. SO now that devs have more space to use - will they use it? Bigger game = longer development, bigger expenses, and likely tighter deadlines from stockholders.
Larger development companies love using the line "we would have loved to include feature 'X' but we just didn't have the space". Now with BR they will have the extra space - its time to find out how much of this is true and how much really meant "we would have loved to do this but the programmers were at each others throats, we were all burnt on looking at the code, and the stockholders said if it didn't make a X-mas release we were going to be fired". LOL
Seriously, how often will the extra storage space of a blu-ray diskl be used? Is it the future? WIll it only be used to create 10 hours of cinima screens?
What are your thoughts?
Developing a top game for established dev's usually costs a ton of money and takes a long time (2+ years from start to finish). ANd this is just in DVD format with DVD space limitations. SO now that devs have more space to use - will they use it? Bigger game = longer development, bigger expenses, and likely tighter deadlines from stockholders.
Larger development companies love using the line "we would have loved to include feature 'X' but we just didn't have the space". Now with BR they will have the extra space - its time to find out how much of this is true and how much really meant "we would have loved to do this but the programmers were at each others throats, we were all burnt on looking at the code, and the stockholders said if it didn't make a X-mas release we were going to be fired". LOL
Seriously, how often will the extra storage space of a blu-ray diskl be used? Is it the future? WIll it only be used to create 10 hours of cinima screens?
What are your thoughts?
#2
i think the size of game assets such as textures is limited by texture memory, not media capacity.
if you're using video in your game, then yes, sure,
but for traditional textures and geometry, i don't see increased media capacity as remotely relevant.
07/08/2006 (10:09 am)
?i think the size of game assets such as textures is limited by texture memory, not media capacity.
if you're using video in your game, then yes, sure,
but for traditional textures and geometry, i don't see increased media capacity as remotely relevant.
#3
But back to movies.. there are also some damn nice looking divx HD movies I have seen that fit on a DVD. They dont look quite as good as something like HD-DVD, but its so much better than standard DVD.
07/08/2006 (11:34 am)
I think higher storage capacity is severely needed for movies, not necessarily games. So many games barely take up half a DVD let alone 9 gigs! Orion is correct, the limitation with ultra high res textures is a performance issue, not really space.But back to movies.. there are also some damn nice looking divx HD movies I have seen that fit on a DVD. They dont look quite as good as something like HD-DVD, but its so much better than standard DVD.
#4
Whether that space actually gets used is up to the developer, but it's always nice to have the option available.
-- JohnDopp
07/08/2006 (1:59 pm)
@Orion: Sure, texture memory limits what you can load in at one time, but what about content that's paged or zoned? Wouldn't it be nice to have the option to include hours of high-quality ambient sound, dialogue, and music on one disc? What about video and interstitials, cut scenes, etc? Level editors? Wallpaper?Whether that space actually gets used is up to the developer, but it's always nice to have the option available.
-- JohnDopp
#5
But the main non-consumer use will be backup. Right now I desperaty nee to back up me server, so I'm stuck with either buyng another 500gb hdd or burning it all to DVD5's. If I had a blu-ray recorder, It would all fit on one, two discs max. Games won't switch media until it's nessesary, movies and backups will though.
But beyond the BRD there'll be variations of the Holographic Versatile Disk that hold up to 1TB, probably more as they develop. 4GB just isn't much anymore, as assets are taking up a larger amount of space as games become more detailed and longer (not nessesaraly in a linear way).
07/08/2006 (5:49 pm)
Extra space = Same Game with Better Sound, Uncompressed textures and more genreal detail. That means that you could have higher-quality and more accurate Normal/Paralax maps as alot of games I've seen have been very sloppy in that area.But the main non-consumer use will be backup. Right now I desperaty nee to back up me server, so I'm stuck with either buyng another 500gb hdd or burning it all to DVD5's. If I had a blu-ray recorder, It would all fit on one, two discs max. Games won't switch media until it's nessesary, movies and backups will though.
But beyond the BRD there'll be variations of the Holographic Versatile Disk that hold up to 1TB, probably more as they develop. 4GB just isn't much anymore, as assets are taking up a larger amount of space as games become more detailed and longer (not nessesaraly in a linear way).
#6
07/08/2006 (6:30 pm)
I don't think the need for all of that space is currently needed. Games are taking large studios tons of time to create all of the games assets and are still able to fill everything on a standard DVD. Plus it was mentioned that texture size is going to be limited by video card memory. I don't see the need atleast until the console generation after 360 and PS3. I really don't see the need for a fomat change in movies either. I mean did we really need the PSP format. I think 90% are Sony made movies anyway. Thats a whole other topic though since I hate how Sony tries to shoehorn it's proprietary stuff onto the world.
#7
I reall dont like the idea of Sony pushing formats either, they will jack prices like there is no tomorrow if their format wins.
07/08/2006 (7:12 pm)
@Michael - Ya but UMD was a TOTALLY different issue.. it was just a new format only for PSP.. No one wants to buy a movie twice to watch it on both your TV and PSP so it failed.. (thank gawd). I dont really want a new format really, just higher res movies. I lean more towards HD DVD caues its cheaper by $500, and right now looks better... Source: www.dvdtown.com/article/toshibavs.samsung-hd-dvdvs.blu/3595/ I reall dont like the idea of Sony pushing formats either, they will jack prices like there is no tomorrow if their format wins.
#8
07/08/2006 (10:11 pm)
Quote:they will jack prices like there is no tomorrow if their format wins.Yeah, because there totally won't be more than one brand of BRD.
#9
Fujifilm
JVC
LG
Maxell
Memorex
Optodisc
Panasonic
Philips
Ricoh
Ritek
Sony
TDK
Verbatim
etc
www.blu-ray.com/media/
Sony is just one of a few major companies funding this format.
Set Top Players....
LG
Mitsubishi
Panasonic
Philips
Pioneer
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Blu-ray Recorders
Hitachi
JVC
LG
Mitsubishi
Panasonic
Philips
Pioneer
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Yamaha
Zenith
07/08/2006 (10:24 pm)
Hmm there's going to be many many brands of BRD.....Fujifilm
JVC
LG
Maxell
Memorex
Optodisc
Panasonic
Philips
Ricoh
Ritek
Sony
TDK
Verbatim
etc
www.blu-ray.com/media/
Sony is just one of a few major companies funding this format.
Set Top Players....
LG
Mitsubishi
Panasonic
Philips
Pioneer
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Blu-ray Recorders
Hitachi
JVC
LG
Mitsubishi
Panasonic
Philips
Pioneer
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Yamaha
Zenith
#10
Until of course everything is done via internet.
07/12/2006 (12:27 pm)
I see Blu-Ray as the final step in distribution via retail stores.Until of course everything is done via internet.
#11
Broadband distribution doesn't work unless you have %100 unmetered unlimited bandwidth with no catches, slowdowns, etc. That'll take a whail in Australia, we're about 5 years behind, unless you work for Soul or HKTelecom.
07/12/2006 (3:51 pm)
I ain't wasting half of my 60gb bandwidth each month on something I could get on a f*cking disc for $5.Broadband distribution doesn't work unless you have %100 unmetered unlimited bandwidth with no catches, slowdowns, etc. That'll take a whail in Australia, we're about 5 years behind, unless you work for Soul or HKTelecom.
#12
08/15/2006 (11:51 am)
1/2 of the DVDs I rent (and when I did netflix, 80%) have scratches that make playback a pain in the ass, and I cant help but to wonder with a higher density disc if this will make scratched discs play worse or better... I guess they could have error correction/redundancy, but will they? I've pretty much gone back to renting VHS for popular titles just because I dont want to have to deal with it. And like I want to pay for a blu-ray player anyways!! Its just been these last 4 years or so that older DVD titles are around $10, wonder what the price point will be on blu-ray discs... I would love to see higher res, but its soooo not worth it if the damn discs dont play... And I think it will be a while until consoles have enough video memory to really make use of multiple uncompressed textures. I do love seeing paralax mapping these days though! I dont know for sure, but I think blu-ray will mostly be a dud... 
Torque Owner Cinder Games
So right there if you have a standard 4.5 gig, dvd, you'll neead 18 gigs just for that movie. However most dvd movies are dual layer, and around 7-9 gigs being used. so.... now you're looking at 28-36 gigs for the movie.
As far as developers go... we'll be able to use much higher resolution textures, now and in the future. it probably will not be uncommon to have 1024x1024 textures for all objects...... each object having a color texture, normal maps. and many others..... all in an uncompressed image format. This will add to the total size of the game quickly. Plus any ingame movies, if need be, will probably also be in a high resolution format.
But there's already far superior media formats in the works that will easilly support 1 TB or more of storage