Level Editor for Torque
by Tim Newell · in Artist Corner · 04/02/2002 (2:31 pm) · 29 replies
Due to the recent announcement by Valve, how about we start an OpenSource project to make a level editor for torque. I would suggest releasing this level editor under the GPL. This would be a great resource for indie developers so no heavy licensing fees have to be payed.
If you wanted to make it a charging model then you could charge a small one time fee to publish a commercial game with it...maybe something like 40 bucks. This money could go towards the project and maybe even pay some of the biggest contributers to the project. Also these big contributers would get a free license of the editor to publish a game.
What are everyone's thoughts on this?
On a side note I think a similiar OpenSource GPLed project for a modeller would be good. If both of these opensource projects were free then it would be great for indies as the costs would be way down...they could even use a free compiler and use The GIMP for 2d art and maybe have to pay nothing for dev tools (sound and music is all thats left)
Note: Im not volunteering to lead these projects just suggesting them.
-Tim aka Spock
If you wanted to make it a charging model then you could charge a small one time fee to publish a commercial game with it...maybe something like 40 bucks. This money could go towards the project and maybe even pay some of the biggest contributers to the project. Also these big contributers would get a free license of the editor to publish a game.
What are everyone's thoughts on this?
On a side note I think a similiar OpenSource GPLed project for a modeller would be good. If both of these opensource projects were free then it would be great for indies as the costs would be way down...they could even use a free compiler and use The GIMP for 2d art and maybe have to pay nothing for dev tools (sound and music is all thats left)
Note: Im not volunteering to lead these projects just suggesting them.
-Tim aka Spock
#2
04/02/2002 (3:38 pm)
Does Quark run on Mac and Linux?
#3
04/02/2002 (4:00 pm)
whats wrong with 'art of illusion' as a basis for a torque open source modeler?
#4
A modelling program we do need. I think it should be something in the way of Milkshape, so not with all the fancy features of 3D max.
04/02/2002 (4:07 pm)
John, you are right, one of the downsides about Quark is that its made for Windows... other then that there's nothing wrong with it... so if you are going to make something new, make a it like Quark, powerfull,userfriendly and easy to configure for use with other games (Quark supports any game you want if you can write the right compiler tool)... I'll stick to Quark tough ;)A modelling program we do need. I think it should be something in the way of Milkshape, so not with all the fancy features of 3D max.
#5
Like John said, to do level editing with torque you are forced to run windows.....what about the lone mac users who dont have a PC, and the linux nerds who wont install windows? :)
The project could poll the community for interface features for this editor...Ive heard that quark is odd to use.
-Tim aka Spock
04/02/2002 (4:26 pm)
Im probably just paranoid but I was fearing that someone might come along and stop quark from being free also.Like John said, to do level editing with torque you are forced to run windows.....what about the lone mac users who dont have a PC, and the linux nerds who wont install windows? :)
The project could poll the community for interface features for this editor...Ive heard that quark is odd to use.
-Tim aka Spock
#6
It seems like a good tool but it would be worth getting some real modellers in the torque community to download and review it. Volunteers?
04/02/2002 (4:33 pm)
I tried art of illusion and I like it. Despite being written in Java it doesn't seem too slow (Use the IBM VM on linux though), and I was able to work through the hourglass tutorial without being befuddled by its UI or having it blow chunks on me (which is more than I can say for some of the other open source programs I tried). It seems like a good tool but it would be worth getting some real modellers in the torque community to download and review it. Volunteers?
#7
I would be partial to starting with Quark since it already works with the Torque and it isn't written in Java. Since it is open source, one part of the project could be to move it over to wxWindows so it would be multi-platform.
However this happens, I love the idea. Having the GG community be more in control of the editing tools is always a good thing.
Jeff Tunnell GG
04/02/2002 (4:40 pm)
Since Quark is already GPL, it would be hard to take away anything that we would do. If we start from Quark and they decided to "un-GPL" their code, they could only do that with code moving forward. We could keep what we have and move forward.I would be partial to starting with Quark since it already works with the Torque and it isn't written in Java. Since it is open source, one part of the project could be to move it over to wxWindows so it would be multi-platform.
However this happens, I love the idea. Having the GG community be more in control of the editing tools is always a good thing.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#8
Is quark quarky? How well does it work with torque? Maybe instead of starting from scratch instead checkout a release of quark put it on a GG CVS and make it GG Quark and modify it from there to work best with torque.....thats legal under the GPL.
We can call it Tuark! ...ok maybe not :)
-Tim aka Spock
04/02/2002 (5:00 pm)
They may not be able to change the license for quark but couldnt they remove it from their site? As long as it isnt mirrored anywhere that could cause problems. Thats not really a big issue I agree...Im just paranoid. :)Is quark quarky? How well does it work with torque? Maybe instead of starting from scratch instead checkout a release of quark put it on a GG CVS and make it GG Quark and modify it from there to work best with torque.....thats legal under the GPL.
We can call it Tuark! ...ok maybe not :)
-Tim aka Spock
#9
Would it be worth wild to port it to C++? then have someone with Mac knowledge tweak it to compile and run?
I could take a stab at the Linux side of the house, with some help from a linux coding guru ;)
-Ron
04/02/2002 (5:18 pm)
I would be willing to toss my .02$ in to help out where I can.I am not the worlds greatest coder (only been doing C++ for about 6 months), but would be willing to dive in head first etc.Would it be worth wild to port it to C++? then have someone with Mac knowledge tweak it to compile and run?
I could take a stab at the Linux side of the house, with some help from a linux coding guru ;)
-Ron
#10
Does anyone know of a less expensive or free version of Delphi/Kylix that runs on all three torque platforms?
Its possible to port the delphi stuff to a more standard language. That would probably require forking quark unless they are already planning to do it themselves.
They have python support; maybe they will rewrite it in python. :)
04/02/2002 (5:19 pm)
It looks like the core of Quark is written in Delphi/Kylix. The borland version of this tool is $250. (They do have an "Open Edition" but I'm not sure if they charge for it.) As far as I can tell Delphi/Kylix runs on linux and windows, but not Mac.Does anyone know of a less expensive or free version of Delphi/Kylix that runs on all three torque platforms?
Its possible to port the delphi stuff to a more standard language. That would probably require forking quark unless they are already planning to do it themselves.
They have python support; maybe they will rewrite it in python. :)
#11
So why not take one GPLed app that's already out there and modify or extend it as necessary to create an integrated interior/shape modeling program for Torque (and other games, hopefully)? I've actually been looking at one that's been mentioned before here, called Aztec. It would need work, of course, but it would be a damn good start. The team has apparently begun porting it to wxWindows before continuing development, and have moved to a private CVS. =(
04/02/2002 (5:37 pm)
Something I've been wondering for a while (and I'm probably not the only one): aside from the special entities like lights or dummy nodes, isn't it reasonable to say that interiors and shapes differ only by the way they're stored on disk? You use different tools to make them, but different geometric tools could be made as plugins for a good app.So why not take one GPLed app that's already out there and modify or extend it as necessary to create an integrated interior/shape modeling program for Torque (and other games, hopefully)? I've actually been looking at one that's been mentioned before here, called Aztec. It would need work, of course, but it would be a damn good start. The team has apparently begun porting it to wxWindows before continuing development, and have moved to a private CVS. =(
#14
If we could then torque would be almost self contained and be perfect for indie developers.
-Tim aka Spock
04/02/2002 (5:56 pm)
Anyone know what it would take to modify torque into a modelling program that we could then write internal exporters to export to dif(the exporter would handle the bsp stuff) and dts and could have instant viewing in torque? We have been talking about all of this in IRC, anyone know the difficulty in adding code to torque to do this? I was thinking maybe have extra libraries that dont get loaded unless you startup the modeller that way to cutdown on bulk in the engine for standard play.If we could then torque would be almost self contained and be perfect for indie developers.
-Tim aka Spock
#15
FYI. There is a project that has started on SourceForge to convert QuArk (delphi) into QuArK++ (for windows and mac). Haven't heard about Linux, but I would like to see a QuArK for all three. Their intention is to write this primarily as the editor for CrystalSpace: "This is an Open Source C++ port/rewrite of the Quake Army Knife by Armin Rigo, using the Crystal Space graphics engine/sdk."
sourceforge.net/projects/quarkplusplus/
In the meantime, I am in the process of integrating the current Quark4Torque into the "official" release of QuArK.
04/04/2002 (5:50 am)
@Tim, a modified version of QuArK is already posted in the resources as Quark4Torque. And the capabilities of QuArK far exceed that of any of the editors I have used IMHO :) One of the major issues (for me anyway) is making Torque/map2dif floating point capable. It was quite a step backwards from HL/Q3 mapping in this regard. We're not even using a fraction of the potential that QuArK has.FYI. There is a project that has started on SourceForge to convert QuArk (delphi) into QuArK++ (for windows and mac). Haven't heard about Linux, but I would like to see a QuArK for all three. Their intention is to write this primarily as the editor for CrystalSpace: "This is an Open Source C++ port/rewrite of the Quake Army Knife by Armin Rigo, using the Crystal Space graphics engine/sdk."
sourceforge.net/projects/quarkplusplus/
In the meantime, I am in the process of integrating the current Quark4Torque into the "official" release of QuArK.
#17
04/07/2004 (8:23 pm)
Wow, a response to a 2 year old post. That's gotta be some sorta record :D
#18
04/07/2004 (8:48 pm)
I'd take a look at tread 3D, thats what i'm building my map editor on, dispite its bad coding (My opinon) it seems ok, when you get down to the bare bones of it. ;)
#19
04/07/2004 (8:54 pm)
Yeah its so old I dont even agree with myself anymore!!! :P
#20
I've been waiting for a linux friendly level editor a very long time myself, I hope someday soon it will become a reality.
04/08/2004 (11:09 pm)
Another possible solution for us linux and mac users is Blender. If someone were to make a script for it, I know I'd be set :) I knew of a script once opon a time that exported .blender to quake .map. I've long since lost the page for it though =/I've been waiting for a linux friendly level editor a very long time myself, I hope someday soon it will become a reality.
Torque Owner Shawn