Does Steam get on your nerves?

#1 Kind of a bad place to vent. There are quite a few better places (e.g. CS forums) that you could visit.

#2 I stopped playing Half-Life, TFC and CS when they took won down and made you use steam, and I don't play Half-Life 2 or CS:Source because of Steam. So yes I am extremly frustrated with it.

#3 I really fail to see why everyone gets all fussy with it. I've never had a problem with steam. I heard people complain that installing HL2 through CD doesnt work; worked fine. It's slow; never had problems. It always updates; that's bad?
Also, in the 5 minutes that you wait for an update, you could do other stuff, like fetch a drink, get some snacks, whatever, or just sit and wait, because untill the update's done, you cant play, so i fail to see why you'd sit and complain about something that's an awsome feature when there are other things you could do in the meantime to make better use of the extra time you've been given before being sucked into the game.

Also, as for weekly updates, this wouldnt fix your problem. If you're walking into this with a mindset of "i wanna play now, not in 5 minutes" you'd be pretty pissed when you have a 2 1/2 hour critical update the time you try to play on a weekend. Steam doesnt nessicarily update RIGHT when you thing it's safe to play, it keeps the updates in a stack that updates the next time you run steam anyways, so weekly updates dont solve anything because you'd just be hammered with bigger, less frequent mandatory updates. As is works pretty well.

#4 Im very fond of Steam. I think it is going to be the delivery system of the future (that or something similar). Why travel to a store to purchase a game when you can download one? Its also very handy if you use multiple PCs or reformat often (like I do).

#5 I'm currently in the Anti-steam camp. Although I really like the idea as far as an online delivery network the implementation just leaves a lot to be desired.

Aside from the "I'll have a quick game, oh wait forgot to go into offline mode so steam is now updating my game even though I was happy to play the slightly out of date version in single player..."

The random updates are also very annoying for multiplayer games. We used to have fixed times to play a clan match and if steam dumped out an updated 5 minutes before hand some players would be in the server playing others would be updating and might end up missing the start of the game (update size depending that is)

But one of the main reasons is the trouble steam causes at lans. We all know to do an update the day before the lan and then go into offline mode, but they'll always be a few that play the day of the lan before heading over, updates at that point mean they're incompatible with the rest of the lan. Where as with old style patches they'd just not bother installing them.

Last lan I was at, I didn't have the game installed and decided to have a play, I'd brough the install disks and my key, but then remembered "steam" and the decryption process. With no internet at the lan lets just say that I wasn't getting HL installed any time soon. Even copying other installs without the ability to login and get the offline tracker wasn't going to work. Maybe theres a trick to get it working, but I shouldn't have to spend so much time messing just to get a game installed to play.

Another player at the lan had been playing for the first day no probs, then he needed to reinstall after his computer died on him. 10 minutes later he had re-ghosted his previous install and was ready to play again, only his HL2 install was out of date, since the latest patches were rolled out on steam he had to mess around copying from other installs and forcing offline mode. All in all a very frustrating experience.

Most other games at the lan were a snap to play. If you were patched too far ahead as I was with quake4, I just reinstalled it and grabbed the Patch off the lan server to get to the same patch level as the servers/rest of the players.

Theres also the frequent crashes I had with steam, but I'm assuming in the 6-12months since I last used it those will have been resolved. Either way my experience with it doesn't make me want to buy another game that uses steam (at least not until there are 0 alternatives).

I quite liked playing CS-S but the experience is a little too frustrating at times, I tend to play Quake4, COD and BF2 (despite the looooong load times in BF2 :P)

I hope someone comes up with a steam like delivery system that doesn't have all the frustrating update/decryption problems.

#6 The day after I installed HL2 I emailed anyone with a logo attached that I could find an email for, told them how unhappy I was with Steam. I did play it all the way through, and it was a great game, but I'll never buy another game that uses Steam. It's a shame, because I had bought all the HL series and really enjoyed them. I had pre-ordered HL2 far in advance.

Another problem that wasn't mentioned was - what happens if I decide to dust it off in a few years (as I often do with games) and the install server isn't there anymore?

I agree that online delivery is a nice option, but not like this. I see a lot of people seem to like it, or at least don't have a problem with it, but I really do think after the frustrations many experienced with HL2 it has to have cost them some sales.

As Gary mentioned, we also have a lot of lan parties and it's hard enough just to make sure everyone has the same updates and maps without worrying about Steam. Glad to see CoD2 and Quake haven't gone that way yet, but I'd go back to CoD1 (and United Offensive) and Quake II before I put up with Steam again. I'm sure someday they'll make it better, but I was so frustrated with that first experience I promised myself that no matter how good a game looked, if Steam is on the package or it says "internet connection required" I wouldn't buy it. If I'm paying $50-$70 I want to have fun.

What bothered me the most was the fact that the hackers were setting up DVD images that could be installed and played without internet connection, no fuss no muss, so the pirates were enjoying the game much more than I was as a paying customer.

#7 I love steam, it's the best online game delivery system available.
"what happens if I decide to dust it off in a few years (as I often do with games) and the install server isn't there anymore?"
Have you noticed how EA and Valve are behind it? Two of the biggest in the industry? I think they'd be smart enough to at least release a patch, don't you?
I'm really sick of people saying from that 'From day 1 they never want to use it again'. Well, Day 1 was when it was released, two and a half years and revisions ago. It's like saying "The new restraunt was a bad experience when they didn't have a good Chef - I'll never go there, ever, even after they've not only renovated, got a new chef, but changed ownership, because of that one bad first experience". Everyones acting like such a child over the whole thing. Especially on the CS forums.
"I hope someone comes up with a steam like delivery system that doesn't have all the frustrating update/decryption problems."
So, updates are fustrating now, are they? So VTM:Bloodlines would have been Better with the major bugs that prevented malkavians from completing the game? Morrowind would have been Great with the Vampirism bugs?

#8 Hi guys,

I suppose I will be categorized with the whining kids over this. But I hate Steam. Like many others, I bought HL2 shortly after it came out. I played it only for a few days and was so annoyed with the infrastructure/deployment of the game that I uninstalled it and haven't had any desire to ever re-install it.

In my opinion, forcing me to use Steam to play games makes me feel like I'm a child again. Basically, with Steam, I have to ask permission and get a lecture every time I want to do anything. I hated asking permission for stuff as a kid and it bugs me even more now that I'm all "growed up". As an adult, when I buy something, I want to have full rights and access to it any time and anywhere.

Just imagine if, in 2007, federal mandates required that every new car be equipped with a Steam-like authorization/updating system that forced 'users' to wait a few minutes before starting their cars up and driving them anywhere. Sure, it's just checking to see that the licence is valid and sure, it's updating the onboard computer with current weather, map and traffic data. But the point is, if I want to make a quick visit to the convenience store, with Steam-like authorization/updating system, I would still have to wait . . . just to drive my car.

I'm pretty sure almost everyone would balk at that kind of system for transportation. So why should we accept it with other products, like games? Oh, nevermind, they're not products anymore, they're called services now. And that changes everything.

Let's just think about what life would be like if everything we bought and used in the real world was managed by a wireless-enabled Steam clone.

At the heart of all of this is -- CONTROL. Consumers who shell out collective big bucks, don't want to be held back by the companies they fund with their dollars, yen and euros.

By the way, the fact that EA is supporting the Steam concept gives me another reason not to embrace it.

Later,

Aaron E.

#9 Not to sound argumentative, Mincetro, but bigger companies than EA and Valve have either gone by the wayside or simply stopped supporting a product because it's life span had "run it's course". The point is, the ability to play the game I purchased (leased, rented, was granted a license to use, etc.) is completely dependent on the provider. I'm just not comfortable with that scenario.

And as far as updates go, I've been completely happy downloading and installing updates at my leisure for the (literally) hundreds of games I've purchased over the years. When I wanted to, not when I was told I must.

I'm sure this is a workable, even likable scenario for many people, but not for me. From what I've seen over the last couple of years, I don't think I'm alone. Guess it just comes down to preference. I don't think Afrim's post was meant to instigate controversy, I think he was just stating his displeasure with Steam.

#10 Micetro: Please try to not take what is written to extreams, I never said "updates" themselves are a problem, just the steam method of getting them is.

Granted steam may have changed since I used it, so what I'm about to say may already be how it now works, in which case thats one of my complaints down and a few to go.

If steam downloaded updates as it does now in the background when you're net connection isn't really been used (much like WinXP updates does) but then when you reconnect to steam rather than installing the updates automatically it should give you the option to update to version XX yes/no. (Or an option to disable automatic installation of updates like XP allows.)

That way not only will the game fully work whilst updates are been downloaded, but even when they've finished downloading you can remain on an older version if you just want a quick game or know you're going to be using several servers not yet patched (eg at a lan). The kicker though is the need to be able to download specific patches to apply manually. Auto patching is great when you have a net connection but a number of the lans I go to do not.

I'd like to re-itterate that I don't really "hate steam", I'm just frustrated enough by its current implementation to choose not to use it. I've not played HL2 since about 3 months after it shipped. I did put up with the then steam problems to get my moneys worth out of the game, but wouldn't want to purchase another steam game in the future. At least not until I read enough information to convince me that the current problems I have with steam are resolved.

I'm sure steam works great for thousands of gamers, but for me its more of a hinderance than an aid.

Anyhow, thats my current opinion on steam :)

#11 I have never had a problem with Steam, and think it's a very good thing for indies that many more people are now comfortable buying games online.

I've heard good and bad reasons why other people dislike Steam. Long load times is a good reason, whining about not owning a physical copy is a bad reason. Soon enough we won't own a physical copy of *anything*.

Ian

#12 @Ian

I think that the Garage Games Ignition system is a well-balanced method for distributing and authorizing software. Using Ignition when we install for the first time or after a hard drive reformat is a very good way of handling it. And since it's from Garage Games, it's very indie friendly. :)

As for content/mission/game updating, I think the current built-in Torque tools are great for informing users without forcing content. Built-in RSS can let the user know what's needed/available and they can choose to download and install or not. If they want to keep the old version of something and run it locally, they have that freedom. And if they try to connect to a mission/session they are not updated to run, Torque tells them that they're missing vital content.

#13 Yikes! I didn't mean to start this guys... I was just trying to play a quick game of Counter Strike Source before going to sleep and the 5 minute waiting time took away from my playing time.

But to elaborate on my first post... How selfish of them to think that their updates are the most important way to spend my time. I would be perfectly happy to play counter strike the way it was the first day I got it. After the million updates that I have downloaded from them, I still do not like it any better than the first day I played it. For example last nights update did not make my game experience any better than the night before. The only thing I noticed is HDR in de_dust which i thought looked like crap and i would prefer to play the non HDR version. It would make more sense if the updates were applied on a weekly basis or even monthly. These are not life or death situations where i need the update now or my life machine stops working!

The other day, me and a colleague decided to play a quick game after work before going home. Guess what, mine was ready his had to update. 30 minutes later still updating and thus the urge to go home overcame the desire to play. I barely have time to play the game much less to wait for it to update.

How about when you are one of the first people to have the game updated then you log on and try to find a server. Guess what? There are only about 2 servers which are updated and full of players so you can't play until the rest of the world catches up!

The updates are not free at all there are several costs involved one of them being opportunity cost...

#14 Afrim,
If you right-click on Counter Strike in your My Games tab and choose Properties you can go over to the Updates tab and select "Always keep this game up to date". As long as you keep Steam running in the background it will automatically patch CS whenever you reboot your computer (or Steam) and you won't have to wait on updates every time you go to play (you'll still catch the occaissional update but less frequently). The reason that Valve is doing constant updates is to help fight cheating. It isn't a 100% effective but it has helped to cut down on it since they have started doing frequent updates. Trust me when I say that waiting 5 mins to play is far preferrable to playing on server after server filled with cheaters (remember 1.6?).

Gary,
You can go to the same option I mentioned above and choose "Do not automatically update this game" and you will have the control to manually update when you want/need to. This is an ideal setting for people concerned about playing at a LAN in the near future. As far as worrying about the Steam servers going away "one day", you can right-click on your games and choose "Backup game files..." and save all of your data off to another folder (which you can burn to DVD if you are worried). Once you have done that then reinstalling is a simple matter of copying the files back into the Steam directory. If you combine this with Offline mode then you never need to talk to the Steam servers again.

Personally, I had a great experience with Steam with the HL2 launch. I had the game pre-installed weeks in advance and at midnight I had to wait 5 mins for it to decrypt my data and I was in and playing. When I compare this to having to snag a copy at a game store at midnight (and wait in line), drive home, and *then* sit through a 30 min install it is no contest. I have been using Steam since its very first public beta and it has been rough at times and some parts of it still aren't working properly (the Friends network) but I think it is a great initiative (the Xbox Live Arcade/Marketplace feels very much like MS took Steam and learned from it).

#15 I don't like it how they try to have control over your playing experience, like you are expected to break the law so they have to take measures against you.

#16 Matt: The problem with that option is that its still too difficult to ensure everyone is at the same patch level on LAN day. With games that also have manual patches you can simply tell everyone to either

1) Be at this patch level for the LAN
2) Bring your installation disks and we'll patch you up to the correct level.

With steam however people turn up at slightly different patch levels. Some may have not had chance to get the days before updates, others will. Even if everyone had "disabled" the auto updates, people will still be at different levels.

afaik when we tried to copy between files between different pc's in order to bring everyones gcf's up to date it failed with a token error. I'm sure there will be ways around this but it was an extra hurdle we were just not prepared to spend time solving.

As for backing up the files, I've not tried it although something tells me even if I install of the backup dvd I'll need to authorise something via a net connection and then there is still the problem of getting up to the same patch level as everyone else. But like I say I havn't tried that so maybe its not the case.

Either way all of this feels like hoop jumping at least compared to other games.

IF you always have an internet connection then steam is great. Lets take an alternative, I have windows XP which requires you to activate it via an internet connection but there is also a phone option in case you don't have access to the internet for whatever reason. Steam could probably benefit from this, if I had been able to phone up a local rate number swap a few hashes and then be authorised for offline/multiplay lan play it would be great. Again though patching will be a problem. If steam could provide a telephone activation option + say a monthly downloadable FULL manual patch installer then that would probably resolve all our issues, even without a phone we all have mobiles.

Regarding launch day, I had a very very bad experience with steam along with many of my friends. Not due to it crashing but due to the complete overload in people requesting their installation be decrypted. I'm pretty sure this problem has been resolved since (especially since you're never going to see that many people logging in on the same day until at least another major game releases over steam). But it did leave a sour taste in my mouth that yet another hurdle was put in the way of playing the game I'd just bought.

To put figures on it, I bought the game then waited for the installation/decryption which took nearly 7 hours. That was on the shorter side compared to a few friends.

I'm all for online delivery but each extra hurdle put in the way of getting to play the game makes me choose alternatives. Its funny how out of the last 4 lans I've been to, halflife2 has been played at some stage over the weekend by nearly everyone at the lan, at those lan centers that had internet access. With many of the same people going to the the lan without internet access the number playing HL2 had dropped to about 4 out of 30+ people. The reason, incompatible game installations, or inability to get into offline mode.

Perhaps the issues could have been worked around with more time and effort or maybe we were just totally ignorant of the available solutions, but when people would rather be gaming and have other games to play that will just work, then its easy to see why we didn't spend more than a few minutes trying to resolve the problem. Instead we played Quake4/BF2/Trackmania etc

I do accept though that my circumstances will not be a problem for the vast majority of steam users. Anyhow, thats all I've really got to say on the steam issue, anything more will probably be just recovering things I've already said and I'd rather not rant too much :P

#17 Every lan party I've been to has had a high-bandwidth Internet Connection, It's not the times of DWANGO, so I've always had the oppertunity to update all my games on the day. Why wouldn't you have an internet connection? Hell, I even have a free completely unlimited 56k connection with my broadband specifically for that type of situation, alot of providers do nowa-days.

EDIT: The only games we play with steam are Opposing Force CTF and CSCZ, so my experience is probably different.

#18 As Gary said, anything from here on out would be beating a dead horse, but in closing it has to be said that there are people who love a Chevy because they've had great luck with them. And there are people who hate a Chevy because they've had no luck at all with them.

My work schedule is such that I don't get much time to play, and when I do I want to play. I live in a rural community where my phone line service gives me, at best, a glitchy 24k connection. I've used Starband (2 years), DirecWay (3 years), and am now on WildBlue satellite service. The satellite is nice (for the options I have), but I just don't have the type of internet service people have in city/urban areas. Many people are in my situation.

The only point to this post is that we can't really say someone should be satisfied with something based on our own experience with it. Not everyone is in the same situation. Not everyone buys software (a game) with the same expectations. I get to have a LAN party maybe twice a year now, and I won't let another one fizzle because it took over 3 hours just to get started. And if I need a 15 minute break from work I want to jump in, blow some things up, and get back to work. Guess that makes me a hybrid hardcore/casual gamer.

In any case, this shouldn't become an argumentative thread, it really is just a Chevy thing...