My idea currently in the infancy of implimentation
by Pat Wilson · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 12/06/2000 (9:33 pm) · 10 replies
I'm planning a game that is tennativly titled, "Code of Ethics," about industrial espionage. I'm basing it sort of like a "Metal Gear: Solid" or "Thief: The Dark Project" type game, where stealth is valued. First person, I haven't decided if I'll do a 3rd person camera. My goal in making this game is to expand what a user is able to do in a game. You will be given a task, for example, "There is a programer from going to COMDEX on United flight 432 out of Ottowa, he's carrying a beta release of fingerprint recognition software (or whatever software) on his laptop, get it." There are so many things you could do to get this. Steal his luggage at the security checkpoint. Get on the plane, put laxative in his softdrink, then copy the software while he's...indisposed. Hold him at gunpoint on the plane, demand the laptop, set a C4 charge and blow the tail off the plane then parachute to safty...whatever, just get that code.
The equipment you'd expect would be state of the art spy gear supplied by your hiring company, right? No, sorry. You are an anonymous freelancer known to the company only by an IRC handle 'Racoon' and you get...whatever you can pick up at the local hardware store, build via Anarchists Cookbook, or whatever. Duct tape, Swiss army knife, ball point pen (MacGiver fans unite!) and what not. I'd really like people to be able to get creative playing this, and think their way out of things. Not a lot of shoot-em up, not a lot of, "Oh I have to time moving so the security camera doesn't sweep in my direction." I'd like someone to think, "Allright, I have to break into this building but I don't have a time limit, so I'll go on a tour, and open a window in the bathroom so there's just a screen, then tonight I'll rapell down from the roof and come in the bathroom."
The name "Code of Ethics" is attempting to be a play on words, where the project name of the company you are working for is called 'Ethics' and is actually an attempt to beat out the rival by developing a software suite for the FBI before they do. Missions would range from tapping network communications by getting into the crawlspaces and shave a CAT 5 cable and then splice wires and setting up a wireless LAN transmitter (Where'd you get that? Best Buy of course.) and sending the communications to a laptop in a white van across the street; to doing things like stealing a prototype wireless PDA system that would let investigators access an information network...and if you happen to pick up more then one...well you got yourself a new toy.
You'll be paid in cash, and you can buy stuff. I'm sure that I'll come up with more mission ideas. And since you are a freelancer, other companies could hire you. The IRC room could be either that, or I could do a web board, where companies post what they want done, and then if you do something like, "Turn off the streetlight at 34th and oak," you'll accept the job. And you can pick missions that way, which would allow more job opportunities from different companies. Heck, AMD could hire you to sabotage Intel by helping them design the Pentium 4 ;-)
The only problem here is can be summed up in a quote from Han Solo, "...delusions of grandure." The AI and engine work for this is way beyond my current reach. (one day, though...) I really have a lot of ideas for this, but I've got to write the engine first...and if someone beats me to it, grrrrrrrrrr.
-KB
The equipment you'd expect would be state of the art spy gear supplied by your hiring company, right? No, sorry. You are an anonymous freelancer known to the company only by an IRC handle 'Racoon' and you get...whatever you can pick up at the local hardware store, build via Anarchists Cookbook, or whatever. Duct tape, Swiss army knife, ball point pen (MacGiver fans unite!) and what not. I'd really like people to be able to get creative playing this, and think their way out of things. Not a lot of shoot-em up, not a lot of, "Oh I have to time moving so the security camera doesn't sweep in my direction." I'd like someone to think, "Allright, I have to break into this building but I don't have a time limit, so I'll go on a tour, and open a window in the bathroom so there's just a screen, then tonight I'll rapell down from the roof and come in the bathroom."
The name "Code of Ethics" is attempting to be a play on words, where the project name of the company you are working for is called 'Ethics' and is actually an attempt to beat out the rival by developing a software suite for the FBI before they do. Missions would range from tapping network communications by getting into the crawlspaces and shave a CAT 5 cable and then splice wires and setting up a wireless LAN transmitter (Where'd you get that? Best Buy of course.) and sending the communications to a laptop in a white van across the street; to doing things like stealing a prototype wireless PDA system that would let investigators access an information network...and if you happen to pick up more then one...well you got yourself a new toy.
You'll be paid in cash, and you can buy stuff. I'm sure that I'll come up with more mission ideas. And since you are a freelancer, other companies could hire you. The IRC room could be either that, or I could do a web board, where companies post what they want done, and then if you do something like, "Turn off the streetlight at 34th and oak," you'll accept the job. And you can pick missions that way, which would allow more job opportunities from different companies. Heck, AMD could hire you to sabotage Intel by helping them design the Pentium 4 ;-)
The only problem here is can be summed up in a quote from Han Solo, "...delusions of grandure." The AI and engine work for this is way beyond my current reach. (one day, though...) I really have a lot of ideas for this, but I've got to write the engine first...and if someone beats me to it, grrrrrrrrrr.
-KB
About the author
#2
I think that there are lots of games out there that suffer from the technology thing. The wrong way to design a game is to ask "what can I do with the technology?".
The much better question is "how I do this (awesome game) justice on a computer"?
I still have civilisation 2 installed on my comp. I still play it. The reason is that graphics and and the effects and so on don't really matter, since the gameplay is so damn good.
I think that small game developers like us really need to rely on good ideas, implemented quite simply. You need to be able to get something up and running and basically fun to play in a couple of months, otherwise you'll lose interest and never get the project past the planning stages.
Of course, from there it may grow over 2 years into something magical, but starting small is definately the way to go.
12/07/2000 (6:00 pm)
Designing a paper-based game first is an excellent idea. That way you can focus 100% on the gameplay and forget about the technical issues.I think that there are lots of games out there that suffer from the technology thing. The wrong way to design a game is to ask "what can I do with the technology?".
The much better question is "how I do this (awesome game) justice on a computer"?
I still have civilisation 2 installed on my comp. I still play it. The reason is that graphics and and the effects and so on don't really matter, since the gameplay is so damn good.
I think that small game developers like us really need to rely on good ideas, implemented quite simply. You need to be able to get something up and running and basically fun to play in a couple of months, otherwise you'll lose interest and never get the project past the planning stages.
Of course, from there it may grow over 2 years into something magical, but starting small is definately the way to go.
#3
12/08/2000 (4:09 pm)
Well keep in mind here the goal is not to create the next best selling game. The main goal is to learn how to write a 3d engine, the secondary goal is to make a game out of it. This is not an incredibly feasable game for my first attempt, and I realize this...but nobody ever got ahead in life aiming low. Unless you're a sniper in a midget war or something.
#4
12/19/2000 (12:07 pm)
I've been looking for truly original games and what you mentioned was to me like the light out of a Pandora's box. So far the most original games I've played have been Chrono Cross for its story and FF9 for its environments. But, the one thing they both lacked was interactivity within the actual levels. This I believe, is what would make your game stand out. It's not often you find a game that actually forces you to think beyond button tapping or answering yes or no to questions. When you create something like what you mentioned you'll have to allow the player to interact with everything as well. Maybe for that you could reverse-engineer the Bouncer engine and then enhance it to fit your game. When you finish your game I hope it brings two things back to the gaming industry: interactivity and originality
#5
I agree 100% with Jeff on this...the whole spy thing with McGiver overtones is very cool...but, I think, you will need to scale things back to make it playable...even, dare I say, fun...
Giveing the player the job of choseing from the entire (or even partial) catalog of the contents of a modern hardware/software/electroncs store for the needed inventory of "spy gear"...well it may sound like fun...like it would open up many creative doors for gameplay...but I think most players would find it more than a bit frustraiting if say they purchased the right wireless LAN device...but got the wrong cable...
Instead you may want to use 007 type spy devices...er, I know you didn't have this in mind...but please hear me out:
...create a LIMIT number of devices that can be used together in dynamic creative ways...ink pen + roll of tape + on site phone = modem (or some such thing)...and let the player in on what "some" of them are and how to construct them...thus the player carries these "gadgets" around from mission to mission like a spy version of the swiss army knife...as the player completes each missions they can get "upgraded" versions of some of these gadgets allowing them to be combined in new ways...
Doing something like this would still allow the player to be creative with each mission while still not overwhelming them with ultimatly useless items found in the store(s)...it is also something that is much easyer to implament gamedesign wise...think of this as haveing a deck of cards...there are only so many...but the number of games you can play with them is enormass...
Also don't woory about the graphics engine untill you have more of the game design down...else you may find that your engine may need rework to support some future game feature down the road... :)
03/21/2001 (11:09 pm)
I just found this post...forgive me I've been away for a while :(I agree 100% with Jeff on this...the whole spy thing with McGiver overtones is very cool...but, I think, you will need to scale things back to make it playable...even, dare I say, fun...
Giveing the player the job of choseing from the entire (or even partial) catalog of the contents of a modern hardware/software/electroncs store for the needed inventory of "spy gear"...well it may sound like fun...like it would open up many creative doors for gameplay...but I think most players would find it more than a bit frustraiting if say they purchased the right wireless LAN device...but got the wrong cable...
Instead you may want to use 007 type spy devices...er, I know you didn't have this in mind...but please hear me out:
...create a LIMIT number of devices that can be used together in dynamic creative ways...ink pen + roll of tape + on site phone = modem (or some such thing)...and let the player in on what "some" of them are and how to construct them...thus the player carries these "gadgets" around from mission to mission like a spy version of the swiss army knife...as the player completes each missions they can get "upgraded" versions of some of these gadgets allowing them to be combined in new ways...
Doing something like this would still allow the player to be creative with each mission while still not overwhelming them with ultimatly useless items found in the store(s)...it is also something that is much easyer to implament gamedesign wise...think of this as haveing a deck of cards...there are only so many...but the number of games you can play with them is enormass...
Also don't woory about the graphics engine untill you have more of the game design down...else you may find that your engine may need rework to support some future game feature down the road... :)
#6
Basically it works like this:
Do something.
Try it.
Repeat.
:) sounds simple, but it goes against the whole "lets do this huge thing" mentality. If you make it as simple as "lets try this mechanic" then it works great, for instance, get a guy running around a landscape. Think about what this can do, would it be fun to just do this? how can we make this action more appealing?
Once you get that so it feels "nice", then think about what else you could do. Perhaps he could jump. Hmm.. that gives you the opportunity for jumping onto things, off of things, over things. Ok.. now that you can jump, how about crouch.
See what I mean? make the individual "mechanics" of the thing right, make every single thing work well, and be prepared to scrap it if it doesnt work with the other things.
I really think overdesign is a plague.
note: this is NOT against planning code etc. You can quite easily play a lot of the mechanics in your head.
Phil.
03/23/2001 (5:52 am)
One thing Ive personally got a real buzz about right now, is the idea of incremental development.Basically it works like this:
Do something.
Try it.
Repeat.
:) sounds simple, but it goes against the whole "lets do this huge thing" mentality. If you make it as simple as "lets try this mechanic" then it works great, for instance, get a guy running around a landscape. Think about what this can do, would it be fun to just do this? how can we make this action more appealing?
Once you get that so it feels "nice", then think about what else you could do. Perhaps he could jump. Hmm.. that gives you the opportunity for jumping onto things, off of things, over things. Ok.. now that you can jump, how about crouch.
See what I mean? make the individual "mechanics" of the thing right, make every single thing work well, and be prepared to scrap it if it doesnt work with the other things.
I really think overdesign is a plague.
note: this is NOT against planning code etc. You can quite easily play a lot of the mechanics in your head.
Phil.
#7
"but nobody ever got ahead in life aiming low. Unless you're a sniper in a midget war or something"
That killed me. But it's true. Don't forget about this game.
01/20/2005 (7:55 am)
Nearly 4 years since this thread died and back then this game was way ahead of the technology and tools as Jeff said. But here we are 4 years later, and to me now, this feels close. Dare I say that in less than 4 years this could go beta on TSE? It's gotta happen sooner or later and you know the old saying...."but nobody ever got ahead in life aiming low. Unless you're a sniper in a midget war or something"
That killed me. But it's true. Don't forget about this game.
#8
01/20/2005 (11:31 am)
The scope is huge, even if it was AAA produced. I could see just one mission taking 6mo-1yr to do. But with T2d on the other hand...
#9
01/20/2005 (11:47 am)
Holy ... yeah now Pat Wilson is an employee I was like why are he and Jeff talking about this on the forums lol ... don't they work in the same office!
#10
I still think it'd be cool though...
01/20/2005 (12:26 pm)
Heh, wow. Hmm, four years later, I think Jeff is right. I wouldn't want to touch it at the level I had envisioned it. I could get a 10-man team, work on it for 5 months, then realize it wasn't feasable, it'd get scaled back, lameified, and end up being a hacked-together game. I still think it'd be cool though...
Torque Owner Jeff Tunnell
This is why I always say taht ideas are cheap. It is easy to come up with a hundred ideas taht would make a good computer game, but implementation is the key.
I don't want to discourage you, but think WAY smaller. Think about how you could implement an interesting espionage game with no graphics, or simple sprite graphics. Make sure the game mechanic is solid, maybe play it in temporary form on paper or as a role playing game. If you want it to be an adventure game (which is what you described), then write up a script and play act out a couple of scenes with your friends.
You will never hae enough resources to make the game you described. Even if you had the technology, think about how much art would be involved in doing just the one airplane scene you described, and you want many, many scenes.
Think smaller. Think implementation.
Jeff