In-Game Advertising with Torque, huh?

#1 Haha. Interesting.

As a game player, I'm cool with in-game advertising if it lowers the price of the software, allows for more freebies, or just about anything but a blatant way to push up the profit. There's a fine line there, somewhere.

#2 Im cool with ads just as long as they aren't in the way and as logn as tehy are in certain types of games. I don't want to play a fantasy RPG and see McDonalds

#3 DragonSlayr3 drinks Powerade and receives 16 essential nutrients
DragonSlayr3 attacks BurgerKing. DragonSlayr3 is PermaBanned from Server Deep-Pan Pizza.

It wouldn't be too bad...

#4

Quote:I'm cool with in-game advertising if it lowers the price of the software

It won't. That's extra money in the developer's pockets. I wouldn't lower my prices because of that unless that was part of the deal with the advertiser.

@Mincetro Deadalus Slayer: lol I hope it doesn't end up like that. I don't mind it in games where it makes sense, like racing games and games in a city or populated modern and futuristic setting. Anywhere else would look really silly and ruin the mood of the game like in a fantasy or historical setting for instance. I don't think anyone who knows what they are doing would allow advertising where it doesn't fit. So now basically, there are only certain types of games that can benifit from in game advertising.
-Ajari-

#5 Ajari: It might not in your case, but I think in others it would. For instance I have a website I run and have ads on it, the ads cover just enough to run the site. It's not money in my pocket, but it keeps the site up which would otherwise not be able to survive. If I ever did advertising in a game it would be the same way, use the ad money to pay bills and hope you break even. Some people are here to make money on games, others are just here to make games, each party will obviously use ad revenue differently. Either way a smart business person keeps the price of there game as low as possible to get the most possible sales, because in the indie industry I would think that high sales are more important to long term survival than short term profits.

#6 Advertisments in my opinion, should only be used in 2 circumstances, 1) the advertiser pays for development and the end user plays for free (like on some cooparate websites) and 2) only to enhance the realism. For example a soccer game, with the advertisement hordings around the perimeter of the field of play. Throwing in advertisments for the sake of more money will ruin a game quite easily.

#7 I'm against the idea of advertisements in games, though I think fundemic's two exceptions are suitable reasons for having them.

#8 I actually work in the online advertising industry and in fact co-founded the company I work at, so filter my comments accordingly.

First off, advertising in-game is *likely* to reduce the cost to the player for one simple reason: Lower cost = more players. More players = more advertising revenue. A key component of the equation that advertisers follow in their ad spending is *volume*. How many people are going to see it? This is true of targeted, optimized advertising (the scale is just a bit different, but generally speaking more = better) as well as the carpet-bombing approach. Consider NeoPets. Their revenue model is entirely product-placement driven. Free for the players.

That said, even if it didn't directly reduce the price (I.E. was used just to push up margins), it's still not a bad thing. Some people seem to have the weird idea that high-margin = a few fatcats pocketing a lot of cash. It just doesn't work that way. Businesses tend to reinvest profits into *growing the business*. Higher margins on one product give them a bigger warchest for trying out riskier or more ambitious projects in the future. It also helps mitigate *risk*. Having some cash on hand is very handy when your game hits a lull, or unexpected growth, or that new content is taking longer to produce than you anticipated.

It's my opinion that in-game advertising is only a bad thing if it *compromises gameplay*, or otherwise substantially detracts from the experience (drinking Pepsi in a fantasy RPG would detract from the experience, but drinking Pepsi in a contemporary/sci-fi RPG does not). If they're hobbling the game in same way SOLELY for the purpose of supporting the ads, that's a bad thing. Beyond that, I see no problem with it -- it helps to ensure that the game will be around longer, and that I pay less to play it. I like paying less.

-JF

#9

Quote:
That said, even if it didn't directly reduce the price (I.E. was used just to push up margins), it's still not a bad thing

.

Just to clarify: I was speaking of my own limits as a consumer. For me, most advertising in games are turn-offs--including if they are added for "realism".

A telivision show character driving a Ford is generally fine by me, and I don't usually care if Ford paid to have their product placed there. A telivision show like the last episode I saw of "Alias" where it was blatantly pushing Ford trucks and the Focus is such a turn off it (along with other things) ruined the show for me.

Now, I also defend their (and your as game makers) right to do it. Doesn't mean that I have to support it. ;)

I haven't tested out the new version yet, but it seems that Josh's Minion's of Mirth advertiser-paid free game (even if a bit limited in character selection) is a fantastic idea.

#10 I'm actually in favor of in-game advertising. We experimented with it MANY years ago with a game for the Playstation called Jet Moto. I don't know that any money changed hands (we got a few free Butterfinger candy bars out of the deal, I guess), but we did some cross-promotion for each other. It was cool seeing the Jet Moto bikes printed on the wrapper of Butterfingers.

I think there are some games for which it's useful and cool (a racing or sports game, certainly, and The Matrix Online). Others, like a fantasy RPG... not so much. Unless it's advertising for a period-era company, like a small independent blacksmith that caters to the SCA or whatnot (but I don't see them providing many advertising dollars).

For advertising other games - I think that should be STANDARD in games. But you shouldn't require the player to wade through it (unless they are only playing a free or demo version). Your game should advertise your other games. Or work out an agreement with another game studio to cross-promote. SOMETHING. It could just be a blurb that appears as you exit the game. We should ALWAYS be looking for the opportunity to up-sell. So long as it doesn't detract from the experience for the paying customer.

#11 I remember Anarchy Online was doing in-game advertisements. I used to see small movie trailers and ads for fanta while playing. It didn't eliminate or reduce any monthly fees, but they had a lot of promos where they were giving away their expansion packs for free. I still get emails from them.

Of course, Anarchy Online also lost most of its player to World of Warcraft...

-Jase

#12 I wouldn't mind in-game ads as long as they didn't affect gameplay. Billboards with Coke ads on the highways and stuff. Driving actual car brands rather than fake brands.
I hated MIB2, though. It had P4 ads all over the place, even the aliens had them!

#13 Does anyone mind loading ads? I was wondering if anyone had seen this method before...

#14 Ads are evil. Once we let ads get into games and allow this to be considered the "normal way" we are doomed.

I prefer to pay for a game than have it low price of free with ads flashing all around the place.

Also as a game developer I will be very suspicious about this. Unless it's fixed ads that you include in your art work and that fit the game (football, racing, etc...) that's fine but if you have dynamic ads download (seem that it's the case with doublefusion) you are not certain that the ads you download fit the game color scheme, or your game rating (tobacco/alcool ads for example).

Also ads on art item is just the beginning, when will we start to see ads break between 2 levels ?.

No, realy I like to see the games ads free for as long as I can.

#15 I think ads are fine as long as they remain passive. Remember when ads first startd appearing on websites? It was maybe one or two at the bottom and top of a page and that was it. Look at what we have now. Some sites with their pop-up ads make navigating through sites a game in itself. Start-up ad pages before you get to the actual websites...when you have to have software installed to block ads, then its becomes a problem.

I think loading screen ads and appropriate in game advertising is cool, as long as it knows its place. God forbid it gets to a point where they are dictating whats in games.

#16 Oh, they already are. Advergaming, man.

I like how Minions of Mirth is doing it. You can pay for the game, or you can have free with ads. Best of both worlds.

I think the issue of choosing your advertisers as a developer is a big one. I would have a REAL problem advertising tobacco or alcoholic products in my games. Especially if I'm selling to a youth audience. But I don't drink or smoke, and would rather not advertise those kinds of products.

The true horror of it all (which has made me avoid even approaching the subject) has been adware. When you install something SEPARATE from the game that pushes ads onto people even when the game is not running. Those are evil, evil, evil, and will be the death of downloadable games if we don't do our best to eradicate it (or at least provide users with some level of confidence and feeling of safety that our games don't have them, so they can avoid those that do).

But I've got a game about evil cows I'm working on right now. I'd have no problem getting some additional funding from Chick-Fil-A or something to help offset development costs and help me pay for higher-quality art and content in exchange for some advertising space in the game.

#17

Quote:
I remember Anarchy Online was doing in-game advertisements. I used to see small movie trailers and ads for fanta while playing. It didn't eliminate or reduce any monthly fees, but they had a lot of promos where they were giving away their expansion packs for free.

The advertisements in AO were for the free players who didn't pay any subscription fees.
For the paying players, it was off by default. So I wouldn't agree with you that it didn't reduce any monthly fees.

Free is cheap.

#18 We're currently hooking up advertsing deals for the Free Edition of MoM. It's very cool to see additional cashflow with this... and it's working.

I will always remember the first $.05 I made in this manner. I screamed:

"Five Cents!!!!!!" - that's the most excited I have ever been about a nickel.

:)

-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games, Inc

#19 I'm working in London next week, which is co-incidently when one of the founders of Double Fusion is visiting. I plan on meeting him to get info from the horses mouth, so to speak.

I hate adware, even though in principle it's good, because its been abused. I also do not visit sites with intrusive advertising, like DevShed any more because of the way the link every damn keyword, which really breaks your flow when you try to read an article.

However. If I can use advertising to offset the cost of the development of my games, whithout them being intrusive, it becomes a usefull tool.

I was worried when Mickeysoft announced the new XBox would support advertising, thinking it would just be awfull, but I have not seen any evidence of it being abused.

I'll let people know how the visit turns out.

#20 Advertising such as product placement I don't have a problem with. Things like a Coke machine where a vending machine would normally be, drinking a Pepsi, wearing Nikes, etc. After all, many games already have us shooting Colt M-4's, Berettas, driving Porsches, etc. Those are brands.

What I don't want to see are "in-your-face" ads like trailers, tickers, flashy things on the side, etc. Now...if I'm playing a FREE version of the game with the understanding that those ads will be present, that's ok. By accepting the terms for FREE play, I accept that.

If I'm PAYING to play a game, the first time I see an "in-your-face" type of ad. I'm dropping that game in a heartbeat and telling everyone I know that it sucks and don't buy it.

I remember when satellite TV had ZERO ads. That's why we paid for it. Now I have over 500 channels that I never watch, because I hate commercial interruptions. I watch a movie channel with no ads, or I get a DVD. I watch my favorite TV series on DVDs just to avoid the commercials.

I understand the need for advertising, and I'm not against it. I just think that our [USA] society has gone overboard on ads. When I was in the military, I enjoyed seeing Europe. Many of the places I could travel without seeing any billboards. It was nice.

America has some beautiful landscape. We just can't see it, because McDonald's is at an exit 92 miles ahead and for some reason they just had to tell us that.

On another note....

If a game does have in-game advertising, one thing I think is of concern is how the advertiser controls the ad placement (if they do). I have a friend that worked on a game with advertisers. They eventually started to dictate how their product was used in the game to the point of affecting the gameplay. It got so bad that the game devs had to cancel the contract. It was interesting to watch that pan out. Sadly, the game never got finished.