Off Topic - DRM and Sony grrrr
by FruitBatInShades · in General Discussion · 11/02/2005 (10:11 am) · 11 replies
Sony have crossed the line and have put spyware on their audio cds! This stuff installs, changes your IDE access and cannot be removed without special knowledge.
blogs.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2005/11/sony_raids_hack.html
When will the music industry open its eyes and actually ask people who don't live in ivory towers how to get round the problem! Heres my questions and opinion, which also apply to software:-
I think most people are under the impression that when you purchase a cd you are buying the right to listen to that music how you please. Therefore, it would seem that you actually buying the 'right' to listen to the songs on the album.
This would be a eutopian ideal and truely fair. Unfortunately it would seem you are only buying the right to listen to THAT cd. Otherwise when vinyl was replaced by cd, we'd have got an upgrade for the cost of the cd production ;) I personally bought a particular album once on vinyl and 3 times on cd because its one of those albums that gets 'borrowed'. I would never buy it again (4 times is enough) but I do have mp3's of it. Is that justified?
The problem with all DRM approaches so far, is that they are draconian! Yes you can buy an mp3 from a tune broker as long as you don't transfer it to an mp3 player, off your ipod, to a different machine, to an audio cd, to an mp3 cd.
So what have you bought? A time lease to listen to the track? Another format version (think vinyl, tape, cd)?
All in all its a bit confusing and stupid! The music industry needs to define clearly what you are purchasing. At the moment it just seems that if you legitimately download music, you are just buying another format that will expire when you get a new player, pc or hard drive.
What I want
I want to buy a track/album and do WHAT I WANT WITH IT. I want to put it on my mp3 player, I want to put it on an MP3 cd for my car player and put it on my fileserver so I can listen to it anywhere in my house. Is that too much to ask? How much does the music industry actually think music is worth?
Taking that album I bought too many times cost me the equivalent of
blogs.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2005/11/sony_raids_hack.html
When will the music industry open its eyes and actually ask people who don't live in ivory towers how to get round the problem! Heres my questions and opinion, which also apply to software:-
I think most people are under the impression that when you purchase a cd you are buying the right to listen to that music how you please. Therefore, it would seem that you actually buying the 'right' to listen to the songs on the album.
This would be a eutopian ideal and truely fair. Unfortunately it would seem you are only buying the right to listen to THAT cd. Otherwise when vinyl was replaced by cd, we'd have got an upgrade for the cost of the cd production ;) I personally bought a particular album once on vinyl and 3 times on cd because its one of those albums that gets 'borrowed'. I would never buy it again (4 times is enough) but I do have mp3's of it. Is that justified?
The problem with all DRM approaches so far, is that they are draconian! Yes you can buy an mp3 from a tune broker as long as you don't transfer it to an mp3 player, off your ipod, to a different machine, to an audio cd, to an mp3 cd.
So what have you bought? A time lease to listen to the track? Another format version (think vinyl, tape, cd)?
All in all its a bit confusing and stupid! The music industry needs to define clearly what you are purchasing. At the moment it just seems that if you legitimately download music, you are just buying another format that will expire when you get a new player, pc or hard drive.
What I want
I want to buy a track/album and do WHAT I WANT WITH IT. I want to put it on my mp3 player, I want to put it on an MP3 cd for my car player and put it on my fileserver so I can listen to it anywhere in my house. Is that too much to ask? How much does the music industry actually think music is worth?
Taking that album I bought too many times cost me the equivalent of
#2
11/02/2005 (10:26 am)
This is what a lot of people are worried about with PS3. Where Sony wants to control hardware and media with very tight DRM control. I think thats the main reason for Bill Gates support for the HDDVD over Blue Ray and less centralized control of the media. Understandable from a MS perspective.
#3
11/02/2005 (10:27 am)
@ScottQuote:
Sony seems to have gotten the message, a little late...
http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/updates.html
SOFTWARE UPDATES/ PLUG-INS
November 2, 2005 - This Service Pack removes the cloaking technology component that has been recently discussed in a number of articles published regarding the XCP Technology used on SONY BMG content protected CDs. This component is not malicious and does not compromise security. However to alleviate any concerns that users may have about the program posing potential security vulnerabilities, this update has been released to enable users to remove this component from their computers.
http://updates.xcp-aurora.com/
#4
11/02/2005 (10:34 am)
Wow, they really haven't a clue what's going on. They're so afraid of people stealling their music and not buying their music cds.... even if they were to complain that sales have been going down or whatever, look at the MUSIC they're releasing. Personally i don't like any of it! SO maybe the fact their music is crap is the reason sales might be slumping. 
#5
Thanks again, I must have completely missed that in the article. Oh wait, I see, it was in the comments, I didn't read those.
11/02/2005 (10:38 am)
@FruitBatThanks again, I must have completely missed that in the article. Oh wait, I see, it was in the comments, I didn't read those.
#6
Most people I know still buy albums even after downloading them as mp3s. What happens is that if the album is good, the band deserve the money so people buy. If not, the mp3s are deleted. I've bought over 80 albums (and they are expensive here £ 16) since I've become aware of mp3s and lots of my friends do the same. You'll always get people that just download and never give back, but they've also got pirated films, games, software and probably drive round untaxed and un-insured too :)
EDIT
£ Should be an english sterling sign :(
11/02/2005 (10:41 am)
I think they should commission a website and let the world know about it. Get everyones opinions on what people think about music, how they buy, how much they pirate etc. Actually get the info because from where I stand what they think is just plain wrong.Most people I know still buy albums even after downloading them as mp3s. What happens is that if the album is good, the band deserve the money so people buy. If not, the mp3s are deleted. I've bought over 80 albums (and they are expensive here £ 16) since I've become aware of mp3s and lots of my friends do the same. You'll always get people that just download and never give back, but they've also got pirated films, games, software and probably drive round untaxed and un-insured too :)
EDIT
£ Should be an english sterling sign :(
#8
Apple is almost as bad. I'm still hesitent to buy a Mac because I know if a piece of hardware gets fried I have to go through their BS and higher cost to get it fixed. I can't as far as I know buy a new motherboard and replace the bad one by myself.
11/02/2005 (1:13 pm)
Big suprise. Sony loves to control the marketplace. Why do you think everything the sell is propietary. What was the point of the PSP UMD's or whatever there called. To line their pockets some more and control more. I think the only movies on UMD's are from Sony so far but hey I don't buy Sony products for the reason that they have to control everything. Apple is almost as bad. I'm still hesitent to buy a Mac because I know if a piece of hardware gets fried I have to go through their BS and higher cost to get it fixed. I can't as far as I know buy a new motherboard and replace the bad one by myself.
#9
They always try to force there own non open format.
11/02/2005 (2:13 pm)
Sony never wanted CD, DVD, Compact Flash etc.. any industry standard.. they resisted..They always try to force there own non open format.
#10
Sure, all the record company products like, Brittany Spears, 50 cent and all the other really good publicity machines but bad music won't go down this path, but I think this is a good thing.
What we need is something like GG to provide a central hub for indie music artists to make their songs available for sale, with minimum cost overhead in the retail price and no DRM stuff.
With the coming of age of internet radio, I've found many new tastes in music that I didn't know I had. Why shouldn't this flexibility work to the advantage of the music industry that isn't owned by Sony etc to topple the big boys.
(Hopefully one day all the rap stars that are made by sony et al and pimped on MTV to produce so much noise will meet the demise they deserve, bankruptcy, for them and Sony et al)
11/02/2005 (2:59 pm)
It would seem the solution would be to remove the middle man and have artists sell their music directly to consumers via the Internet.Sure, all the record company products like, Brittany Spears, 50 cent and all the other really good publicity machines but bad music won't go down this path, but I think this is a good thing.
What we need is something like GG to provide a central hub for indie music artists to make their songs available for sale, with minimum cost overhead in the retail price and no DRM stuff.
With the coming of age of internet radio, I've found many new tastes in music that I didn't know I had. Why shouldn't this flexibility work to the advantage of the music industry that isn't owned by Sony etc to topple the big boys.
(Hopefully one day all the rap stars that are made by sony et al and pimped on MTV to produce so much noise will meet the demise they deserve, bankruptcy, for them and Sony et al)
#11
Sony, Rootkits and Digital Rights Management Gone Too Far
www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html
11/02/2005 (5:15 pm)
Found a lengthy article on the Sony DRM thing, with a lot of detailed system stuff.Sony, Rootkits and Digital Rights Management Gone Too Far
www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html
Associate Scott Burns
GG Alumni