Dsq: Blends & 'root-pose
by Rex · in Torque Game Engine · 07/29/2005 (8:04 am) · 14 replies
I'm having some difficulities with Blend type animations and something I can't figure out is this:
I understand the 'root' pose is needed for referencing the dts shape and the sequences for Blend sequences. I'm working on a new look* series of them to get new weapons' looks included with the default player to extend it beyond the default rifle posture[replacing lookms,sn,nw]. As I understand it, this new look sequence[lookpk]-the extreme up/down arm movement associated with the mouse pitch/yaw control, even though not anything like the 'root' pose[this would also pertain to any other item needing mounting and a look] should contain a keyframe of the root pose to reference, and this becomes the Blend Reference Frame. Is this true? What I notice happening with my blend sequences is this: if exported as a blend with this 'root' reference frame in the center of the sequence, as seems the doctrine, I get the rifle reference frame when pointing forward and I get the newly added weapon pose at either end. up/down. I tried this with a Blend Reference Frame at the beginning, declared it, and got the 'root' pose at the very extreme up pose! Hmm.......the 'root' pose keeps appearing even though I want something blended ontop of it, referencing this frame. If I export this sequence as a non-blended, I can get my new weapon pose in all directions, up/middle/down, but it seems to conflict with code somewhere, because; in first person, I don't view the animation happening, I get the eye moving but arms/hands remain poised in the new pose; while if I enter 3rd Person, I can see the animation happening???!
Then, if I go and examine a stock SDK player and load the looksn, lookms, & looknw sequences into the player and run them with the scrubber, I never see the Blend Reference Frame of the 'root' pose inside these sequences at any point during the sequence[unlike mine, which appeared at center, and the beginning]? Is it there being overwritten, is it culled, is it not being played by code with some flag engaged?? I'm wondering where/when/how this reference frame actually gets overwritten[during export or by the engine]; or am I missing a fundamental axiom of the system. I'm using the DTSPlus! exporter and Milkshape and would really like to get this figured out to help myself and those following this pipeline along. If I don't include the root pose keyframed anywhere within the file and export as Blend, I get the up/down rotational values, but NOT the newer weapon's keys...I know I should include the 'root' as a reference...just seem to be lost on where/how it doesn't show with the defaults.
Thanks
Rex
...is it that for me to do this, I'd need a new player_root.dsq[with this new weapon pose], to have my player reference?? Kinda like the Hand to Hand in Realm Wars??
...and when I read the documents on Setting up Animation; there is a chart of the default sequences and the Nodes that they control/are controled by them and it lists the Lower Body Only sequences[forward, backward, side,fall, land, all jumps] as having the lower body Nodes isolated during the sequence, yet when I view these in TSTpro, I see the sequence contains the entire Spine up to the Head also!! In the same manner, during that outline I am reading two different statements about the validation script: at first, they're referenced by name, further down, they're referenced by index number??? That confuses me.
I understand the 'root' pose is needed for referencing the dts shape and the sequences for Blend sequences. I'm working on a new look* series of them to get new weapons' looks included with the default player to extend it beyond the default rifle posture[replacing lookms,sn,nw]. As I understand it, this new look sequence[lookpk]-the extreme up/down arm movement associated with the mouse pitch/yaw control, even though not anything like the 'root' pose[this would also pertain to any other item needing mounting and a look] should contain a keyframe of the root pose to reference, and this becomes the Blend Reference Frame. Is this true? What I notice happening with my blend sequences is this: if exported as a blend with this 'root' reference frame in the center of the sequence, as seems the doctrine, I get the rifle reference frame when pointing forward and I get the newly added weapon pose at either end. up/down. I tried this with a Blend Reference Frame at the beginning, declared it, and got the 'root' pose at the very extreme up pose! Hmm.......the 'root' pose keeps appearing even though I want something blended ontop of it, referencing this frame. If I export this sequence as a non-blended, I can get my new weapon pose in all directions, up/middle/down, but it seems to conflict with code somewhere, because; in first person, I don't view the animation happening, I get the eye moving but arms/hands remain poised in the new pose; while if I enter 3rd Person, I can see the animation happening???!
Then, if I go and examine a stock SDK player and load the looksn, lookms, & looknw sequences into the player and run them with the scrubber, I never see the Blend Reference Frame of the 'root' pose inside these sequences at any point during the sequence[unlike mine, which appeared at center, and the beginning]? Is it there being overwritten, is it culled, is it not being played by code with some flag engaged?? I'm wondering where/when/how this reference frame actually gets overwritten[during export or by the engine]; or am I missing a fundamental axiom of the system. I'm using the DTSPlus! exporter and Milkshape and would really like to get this figured out to help myself and those following this pipeline along. If I don't include the root pose keyframed anywhere within the file and export as Blend, I get the up/down rotational values, but NOT the newer weapon's keys...I know I should include the 'root' as a reference...just seem to be lost on where/how it doesn't show with the defaults.
Thanks
Rex
...is it that for me to do this, I'd need a new player_root.dsq[with this new weapon pose], to have my player reference?? Kinda like the Hand to Hand in Realm Wars??
...and when I read the documents on Setting up Animation; there is a chart of the default sequences and the Nodes that they control/are controled by them and it lists the Lower Body Only sequences[forward, backward, side,fall, land, all jumps] as having the lower body Nodes isolated during the sequence, yet when I view these in TSTpro, I see the sequence contains the entire Spine up to the Head also!! In the same manner, during that outline I am reading two different statements about the validation script: at first, they're referenced by name, further down, they're referenced by index number??? That confuses me.
About the author
Rex does all his 3D graphics through BrokeAssGames and is currently working on DSQTweaker, Ecstasy Motion, and other interesting projects yet to be revealed. Just ask him about anything DTS/DSQ related, he's happy to help.
#2
11/04/2009 (10:28 am)
In the weapon datablock, datablock ShapeBaseImageData(CrossbowImage)
{
// Basic Item properties
shapeFile = "~/data/shapes/crossbow/weapon.dts";
emap = true;
// Specify mount point & offset for 3rd person, and eye offset
// for first person rendering.
mountPoint = 0;
//eyeOffset = "0.1 0.4 -0.6";, find the 'eyeOffset =' assignment and comment it out, or give it NULL value "0,0,0", see if you then 'see' the weapon in the Player's hands[unglued from the GUI]. 
#3
Seeing that your original thread is 4 years old ... I guess you found a solution then. :)
11/04/2009 (12:23 pm)
@RexSeeing that your original thread is 4 years old ... I guess you found a solution then. :)
#5
In FPS the gun seems to be mounted to the camera in the middle of the player.
I should mention that we are using AFX which isn't a FPS by nature and required some script changes to use FPS.
11/06/2009 (10:03 am)
I commented out the eyeoffset and could see the gun but in the air by itself. I can see that the blend is active in third person view but its not active in first person.In FPS the gun seems to be mounted to the camera in the middle of the player.
I should mention that we are using AFX which isn't a FPS by nature and required some script changes to use FPS.
#6
11/06/2009 (11:22 am)
ah...gun moving, no body; now in this player's datablock try looking for renderFirstPerson = false;. Change that to 'true' and run the new script[delete DSO file too!], see what happens then. If this is already 'true', not sure why the body isn't rendering....??!
#7
The camera is located in the center of the body now. I can look up and see the arm with the pistol in hand. If I move the crosshairs the arm is not moving.
11/07/2009 (12:05 am)
Thanks Rex,The camera is located in the center of the body now. I can look up and see the arm with the pistol in hand. If I move the crosshairs the arm is not moving.
#9
11/07/2009 (1:29 pm)
I fixed the eye node name and now the camera is located at the eye level. The pistol is mounted to camera and the hand is empty. When I pan around the pistol angles up and down but the arm blend doesn't move.
#10
However, have a look at the various docs and links for animation under the support->documentation->artists section
11/07/2009 (2:21 pm)
Arms need to be part of a look animation. But that's not going to couple well with using eyeoffset, they'll never synch together, which is why alot of people use fake arms as part of the weapon in First Person games, and disable the body from rendering.However, have a look at the various docs and links for animation under the support->documentation->artists section
#11
I've never really had any issue with rendering the body, weapon shapeImage mounted, etal...Blends shows how I did it in Milkshape3D. The weapon stayed exactly where I animated it throughout the entire look* sequence and you see the body.
I don't animate the weapon at all..?? I don't get how the weapon image[standard weapon code] is mounting to the camera/eye?? Depending upon the mountPoint in the weapon script, it 'should' mount to "mount0".
Sounds like a combination of art and scripting errors; you'll have to lay out more of the details of what you are doing, Chad.
11/07/2009 (7:23 pm)
Might be some oddity with the AFX system??I've never really had any issue with rendering the body, weapon shapeImage mounted, etal...Blends shows how I did it in Milkshape3D. The weapon stayed exactly where I animated it throughout the entire look* sequence and you see the body.
I don't animate the weapon at all..?? I don't get how the weapon image[standard weapon code] is mounting to the camera/eye?? Depending upon the mountPoint in the weapon script, it 'should' mount to "mount0".
Sounds like a combination of art and scripting errors; you'll have to lay out more of the details of what you are doing, Chad.
#12
What you describe is for the most part what is happening. I don't like the idea of using fake arms because I wonder how it will work/look in a multi player network senario.
Rex,
There was a art error. Your Blend example for MilkShape is excellent and that is what I followed to create my Blended look animation.
The game we are creating has melee and ranged combat. I will be trying an example melee combat code that uses blended animation. Hopefully this will help me solve this problem.
11/07/2009 (11:51 pm)
Steve,What you describe is for the most part what is happening. I don't like the idea of using fake arms because I wonder how it will work/look in a multi player network senario.
Rex,
There was a art error. Your Blend example for MilkShape is excellent and that is what I followed to create my Blended look animation.
The game we are creating has melee and ranged combat. I will be trying an example melee combat code that uses blended animation. Hopefully this will help me solve this problem.
#13
Good luck!
11/08/2009 (9:40 am)
Ah, yes, this is exactly what we had to work around with RUIN Online...it will probably need Source code changes to get it working together; standard weapon and hand to hand type combat.Good luck!
#14
Thanks Rex!
Now my Look animation is working properly. Which is a big step forward for me.
I tried the "server-side melee system" by "Josh Moore" which worked great as well.
11/08/2009 (4:35 pm)
My Look blend animation had a problem. I used the default pose instead to the root animation pose for frame one.Thanks Rex!
Now my Look animation is working properly. Which is a big step forward for me.
I tried the "server-side melee system" by "Josh Moore" which worked great as well.
Torque Owner Chadster
I followed your MilkShabe blend example and the blend animation is working but the arm still don't show with the weapon. The weapon is mounted to the camera it looks like and the arms just stay at the player side.