In-Game Ads - A Great Opportunity if Indies Stay Away?

#21

Quote:Catch is though who will want to advertise with an indie game?

Actually Logan the answer to that question might surprise you. There are many companies out there with millions of dollars earmarked specifically for any new type of advertisement they can get that's different. One such company is Anheuser-Busch and more specifically the devision that handles BudLight. One of our local musicians who you never would have heard of unless you knew exactly which hole in the wall he played at, was paid 10 grand for commercial slots on his Public Access Television show. His show was nothing more than him using a lousy vid-cam on a tripod to record himself playing his accoustic and singing for about 27 minutes, and then he would record himself holding up a bottle of BudLight and saying how much he likes BudLight. Then he would edit that stupid barely scripted endorsement in between every 3 songs, take the tape to Comcast, pay them 5 bucks per night twice a week(120 bucks for 3 months) to air the video on our PA channel. They paid him 10 grand for what is AFAIK the worst designed lowest quality commercials in their history. And let me state again, this guy is not a rockstar, he's a bar singer in a dive. Nobody knows who he is. If he can get it, anyone can get it. In a decent looking game attempt, you might get more than 10 grand. 10 grand to AB is about 10 seconds worth of beer sales in one average city. They can spit it out to anybody that wants it bad enough to present them with a chance to write the check. They are not the only company by far that has special funds earmarked in such a manner. You have to do some research, some phone tagging, and put together some kind of idea of how you will demo their product to get it, but it is there waiting to be got.

#22 The trouble with that is you would never know what ad is being put in your game. You could end up having your really dark, atmospheric, futuristic, sci-fi FPS full of 'My Little Pony' or 'Barbie' ads!! They could never be as subtle either. I guess they would have to be just put on billboards etc.

#23 I should have clarified that AB did not dictate artistic limitations or demands on him. He took care of everything and the tapes speak for themselves, he put in a good hard 30 seconds of thought on the whole concept and did the commercial in one take. By all intelligent reasoning, they knew they were basically throwing away money on pure crap and he was just giving them the crap they needed to throw at and nothing more. Not all companies are going to let you run rampant with their products of course, but most will want their product to fit in the environment which gives you a certain amount of artistic authority right off the bat. Using the 'My little pony' example... you might not want to approach them with an adult game to pitch, but if you had an educational or kid based game, they certainly might listen. Beer goes good anywhere, anytime, as far as AB is concerned. That's one reason they'll pay to get it shown anywhere they can.

#24 It's nothing for corporations that large to "seemingly" throw money like that away. Mainly because, even though it doesn't reach the "main" target audience, it does reach a sometimes "unseen" audience. It is very easy for them to earmark money like this for such project, they need the tax deductions as well.

Any idea if a company like AB could have any adverse effects? Like how a game could be rated?

#25 Beer commercials are shown daily on every channel but kids channels. Beer is consumed in sitcoms, dramas, movies, music, etc... Beer just exists. The only law I know of that restricts beer advertising is when commercials are aired on television, "You can pour it and hold it but you can't drink it". They don't need a law to restrict advertisement to kids, channels like Disney or NickJr. would never accept such ads and AB wouldn't want the bad press from it. Most beer laws pertain to distribution and consumption.

#26 I totally think it is a good idea for indies to get money from advertising in their game as long as it integrated nicely and doesn't annoy the player.

#27 I find in-game advertising incredibly annoying as I am a self-confessed brand snob. I like the brands I like, and it will take a lot of really good marketing to get me to switch over. I hate seeing the AMD logos all over Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and hated even more the Best Buy ads and Cingular Wireless branding in Need For speed Underground. I am admittedly not easily swayed by advertising, and shoving a logo in my face for a brand that I have absolutely no interest in is going to make me even more fastidious.

Having said all that, if the ads are well placed, consistent, not confined to a tiny number of brands and is genuinely a part of the gamplay (like having franchise stores and populated malls, etc.) then it's fine. The most annoying thing is when you just see the same one or two ads all over the place.

In fact, I dislike advertising so much in general, that I record most of the Tv that I like to watch later, so I can skip all the commercials ;) I also buy all the shareware I like just to get rid of the annoying ads!

#28 The problem with TV ads is that they're intrusive, forcing you to watch them before you can see the content. (Unless you time-shift with a VCR or PVR, like me.) I don't mind out-of-band ads that I look at at my leisure, like those on web and magazine pages.

#29

Quote:I don't mind out-of-band ads that I look at at my leisure, like those on web and magazine pages.

Very interesting that you say that. I've been aware of this issue for a couple of years now, but until Nick brought it up, I had never really given it some deeeeep thought. IMO, you should take the money, put the advertisement in your game, and do it in the classiest and most pleasing fashion possible. Don't just do it, do it right, and do it smart. And I think you should start right now. Here's why...


1. If YOU don't do it, someone else most certainly will. Can't deny it. They will get paid. You will not. Do not bother arguing that games will gain sales by not having ads because I already said "Do it classy, do it nice" and I have even better reasons to consider.

2. What better way to compete with the big boys than to steal some of their ad revenue. Best part is, there is nothing they can do about it. Every time you get paid, they get stiffed. Strike a blow for indies everywhere and strike it hard. Be real with yourself about this, you came to make games, but you REALLY came to get paid. We all have to eat, we all have bills to pay, there is no dishonor in wanting to C.Y.A.

3. The industry is whining about game costs going through the roof. None of them WANT to charge us more money for our games, but all of the do want to charge us more money for our games. What that means is, money is going to HAVE to start coming from somewhere soon. None of the gaming companies really wants to gt in a pricing war on games right now. It's bad enough on consoles. So the logic assumption is that they will gamble on in-game advertising before they gamble of price increases. They already are, so it's not going to happen, it is happening.

4. Now that it's started, there is no going back. Why? Because it works. What else need be said? Somebody is getting paid right now for doing it. Bunch of somebody's in fact, lol. Go with the flow. Follow the industry, follow the money. Remember, doing things well can make up for any negativity towards the issue.

5. And by far the best reason why you should take that money is simple and very sweet. You can always return to being that grassroots indie making your ad free games that you love so much, AFTER you get the bills paid. You will always have the option to turn back at any time and do what you are doing right now. Oh and Microsoft, yeah, about them, they can never go back to grassroots. That's the sweet part, we can have it both ways, they need it to survive. Enjoy yourselves at their expense. Let's get some games built, and some ads rolling folks.


:-)

EDIT: One more thing I forgot to add


6. Like it or not, we all need a little advertisement. In a purely logical sense, it's not good for anyone to get totally lost in their games. Like it or not, it's harmful in quite a few ways. You need to have some kind of idea of what's going on in the real world. Since we cannot make people get off their game, nor would we want to, we can bring a little outside world in. Especially when working on a title that is based around our lives(past, present, or future). And besides, deep down we all like knowing that they(advertisers) think we(consumers) are the most important things in the world, lol.

#30 OMG better yet, lets get started right now figuring out EVERY single possible advertising trick we can, and patent them. OMG would the Big guns freak then, lol. We could hold the industry hostage and demand that all patents be abolished or they can start writing out some big fat checks. GG should jump on this idea and call it the IIPLO (Indie IP Liberation Organization). Send a clear message with the name. Lease the IP like IBM does. Indies get dirt cheap licenses($10.00 to cover paper work) and Microsoft gets bent to the north side for say 2 bucks a game? And a 10% charge on ad revenue. Fight fire with fire right?

#31 @Nick Z, I don't think the reason for advertising in games is to "further increase the gap between the two markets (indie/commercial) in terms of revenues, budget, exposure". I don't think they have indies on their minds at all when they place adds in games. Your no threat to EA or Sony and neither am I.

On one hand I do hate adds in games because it's annoying especially if you hate the product. But on the other hand I feel it further puts the game industry into the mainstream light and ties the industry in tighter with our culture. I support televised game torunaments and MLG. I hope they show future competitions on ESPN someday. Nascar, baseball, football, movies, all have advertisments but as long as it's done in a way that doesn't rip you from the emersion of the game then it's ok I guess. It's gonna happen no matter what and at least it's done tastefully and in realistic games like in Splinter Cell. His Sony Erricson is a real product. Best Buy's really do exist and if you drive by one you will really see it in real life, so why not in Need for Speed Undergound. When I see Mario with a "Tide with bleach" logo on his ass is when they have gone too far. But I do agree that it's annoying to see Cloud Strife holding a real world cell phone in a fantasy setting with his fantasy sword, wearing his fantasy clothes, and riding his fantasy bike. I wonder if Sephiroths clones have anytime minutes and a family share plan.
-Ajari-

#32

Quote:Your no threat to EA or Sony and neither am I.

Oh but you are. Don't sell yourself short. The Giants of the industry have already crossed the threshold and sealed their own fates. It won't happen soon, but most of them are coming down. Very few buisness empires last forever. All of them started from one or two people with a good idea and the drive to make it happen.

#33 Ajari, I didn't actually say that the "reason" they advertise is to further increase the gap between the two markets. Instead, that the gap increase was a "result" of the overadvertising. I do agree though with advertising in sports games, I already mentioned that.

My conclusion from reading all your replies is that it's not a taboo for indies to advertise as long as it's done in a very clever way and it's not in your face.

Nick

#34 Ingame advertising is no more invasive than brushing your teeth :)

Seriously, when running through DownTown in a game, would you rather see a billboard with some tacky coke ripoff add, or an actuall coke ad? Me, I'd rather see the coke add.

I will advertise in any game I create, as long as it is not dtremental to game play, and fits the local, situation, style, and genre... EG no Pepsi adds in a mario clone :)

#35 I think posters on the subway wall would be fine in a game. Crazy Taxi was great, and it was littered with ads.

Gran Turismo and Need for speed underground both "advertise" by using the actual brand names for the tires,rims,brakes etc. I'm not one of them, but I am sure there are players out there who look forward to building a virtual car using parts they can't afford in real life. "Wow, they have a little civic just like mine, I'm gonna sup it up, that would be rad".

In some aspects, using brand names or advertising can 'enhance' (this is probably not the best word) the appeal of a game. Gran Turismo is definitely one of them. The ads are very integrated into the game, to the point that the game would be different had they not used brand names.

One thing I can't stand are billboards on mountains in snowboarding games. Even if they aren't showing real-world ads. I would never ski/snowboard at a mountain with billboards. It's a very quick way to ruin a beautiful thing.

#36

Quote:WildTangent have always been nuts (or idiots depending on how you want to see it...).

LOL - yeah, WT has made a number of decisions that I've yet to fully understand, although you don't hang around the industry this long without having done something right... right?! (C;

The question has been posed in this thread - is in-game advertising even an option for an indie developer?

The answer to this would be "depends on the developer".

What I mean is, obviously the execs for Pepsi-Cola aren't going to come beating down your door, but then that's not how most advertising is secured in the first place... it's solicited.

If you have a game that you're interested in having ads placed in, try to contact businesses who might have a specific interest in advertising to that audience - i.e. high performance car parts to the NFS/ GT crowd. (Just as an example).

Is everyone you approach going to be interested? No, almost certainly not, but as with most things in life, the more persistant you are and the harder you work at it, the more likely you are to succeed.

In the end I'd say, try to get a successful publish first - when you can show a prospective advertiser that you had over 100,000 downloads of your demo, you may just get his attention... but then, WTH do I know. \C:

#37 For those of you who are interested in ad supported games, and if you have the skill or talent to pull one off... then check out my help wanted ad.

You'll find that I'm seriously looking for developers to build an ad-revenue supported massive multiplayer online Racing game. I have corporate backing, and over 68 markets to deploy too.

Check this out for further details:
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=project&page=view.job&qid=5379

thanks!

#38 It's interesting, Massive Inc is a block away from my house and not only that it's in the same building my dad works in. Just thought i'd mention it.

#39 I had a meeting with the guy from Double Fusion earlier in the year. I said somewhere I'd do a writeup of it, but with work having taken off, I just forgot about it totally.

My concearns were mainly that I would have control over what went into my game. That was fully satisfied. I get full approval over any and all ads that advertisers may want to place into my game. The games in development I saw were fairly cheesy, but showed what you could do. In an urban racing game (no names, sorry) you could collide with bus shelters etc, and they showed ads, just like RL. Billboards could be controlled, to either show random ads, or specific ones, and I could even tie that down to time of day in the country concearned, and modify what ads are shown based on say, age criteria, geographical location, number of active subscribers etc. All very cool.

Another offshoot of the DF toolkit is the ability to track, anonymously, how many people in XYZ nation are running my game. The analysis tools are a great boon, as you can really get some good demographics without worrying about identifying individuals, another big worry of mine was confidentiality. I dont mind adware, but not the current crop that invades your PC and your privacy. Its wholly contained within the game, only running when your game is, and totally confidential.

All in all, it wont be suitable for everyone. It wont make you rich overnight. Medieval games for instance would struggle to use it, however even they could fit it in, as advertisers are willing to work with individual game developers if the game attracts their attention. Just imagine a custom medieval coke ad? Ummmm, maybe not.

So in summary, in game advertising is what you make it. I can see no downside to having advertising revenue if it doesnt detract from the game experience, and in the case of the game I'm working on (Well, not very much atm...) it could add to it, as its set in contemporary settings. No worrys about infinging upon logos and trademarks, they are paying ME to put them there! Yay!

#40

Quote:
All in all, it wont be suitable for everyone. It wont make you rich overnight. Medieval games for instance would struggle to use it, however even they could fit it in, as advertisers are willing to work with individual game developers if the game attracts their attention. Just imagine a custom medieval coke ad? Ummmm, maybe not.

hehe... good points.