Use The GarageGames Marketplace!!
by Jeff Tunnell · in Jobs · 03/02/2001 (7:46 pm) · 13 replies
I can't believe it! We have provided an incredibly powerful (and free) method of allowing people to build teams for creating games, yet few people are using it. Maybe it's our fault because we haven't explained it well enough or maybe our user interface is bad, but whatever it is, get over it and use the Marketplace!!
For those of you that don't know what it is, the GarageGames Marketplace is a free, game development-only version of job sites such as Monster.com, eLance, or Hotjobs.com.
In the Marketplace you can post your profile/resume to let others see what you are doing. Your profile can be posted in any of three over thirteen categories such as Programmer, Web Developer, Designer, etc. In addition, you can enter your specialty (in your own words), skill level, talent descriptions, work samples, screen shots, and URL links to your own works.
Even if you are happily employed, it doesn't hurt to promote yourself a little. For this situation we allow you to choose an option that tells readers you are Employed, Make No Offers, or if you are feeling frisky, you can choose Employed, But Willing To Listen:)
In a similar manner you can post your Company and Project information for self promotion or simply to communicate what you are doing and get feedback from a vibrant development community.
Lastly, we have Help Wanted Ads that allow you to post job or team openings. These ads can range from large companies with paying positions all the way down to first timers trying to solicit like-minded team members for their first project.
I can tell you that this system works. In the past month, Monster Studios has successfully recruited a sub-contract programmer, two low poly 3D shape artists, and a musician/sfx specialist. They were all small projects, but they all paid money to the developers.
GarageGames does not make money off the Marketplace, but it also doesn't cost us much to run it. We see it as a service to back up our mission statement of providing technology, tools, team building, education, and a market for indie game developers.
For those of you that don't know what it is, the GarageGames Marketplace is a free, game development-only version of job sites such as Monster.com, eLance, or Hotjobs.com.
In the Marketplace you can post your profile/resume to let others see what you are doing. Your profile can be posted in any of three over thirteen categories such as Programmer, Web Developer, Designer, etc. In addition, you can enter your specialty (in your own words), skill level, talent descriptions, work samples, screen shots, and URL links to your own works.
Even if you are happily employed, it doesn't hurt to promote yourself a little. For this situation we allow you to choose an option that tells readers you are Employed, Make No Offers, or if you are feeling frisky, you can choose Employed, But Willing To Listen:)
In a similar manner you can post your Company and Project information for self promotion or simply to communicate what you are doing and get feedback from a vibrant development community.
Lastly, we have Help Wanted Ads that allow you to post job or team openings. These ads can range from large companies with paying positions all the way down to first timers trying to solicit like-minded team members for their first project.
I can tell you that this system works. In the past month, Monster Studios has successfully recruited a sub-contract programmer, two low poly 3D shape artists, and a musician/sfx specialist. They were all small projects, but they all paid money to the developers.
GarageGames does not make money off the Marketplace, but it also doesn't cost us much to run it. We see it as a service to back up our mission statement of providing technology, tools, team building, education, and a market for indie game developers.
About the author
#2
05/15/2001 (3:11 pm)
Perhaps send out a membership-wide e-mail restating the content of your post, Jeff?
#3
09/23/2001 (12:10 pm)
problem with the marketplace is its too general. im only interested in a narrow slice of the potentials, and i have to wade through all this crap to get to it. ah, well...
#4
What do you mean about it being too general? We have a bunch of ideas about how to make it better, but haven't gotten around to it since we are working so hard on the Torque Engine. However, we have a couple of Web guys working on the Player's Site now, and we could have them work on this after they are finished.
Jeff Tunnell GG
09/23/2001 (1:19 pm)
Jeff,What do you mean about it being too general? We have a bunch of ideas about how to make it better, but haven't gotten around to it since we are working so hard on the Torque Engine. However, we have a couple of Web guys working on the Player's Site now, and we could have them work on this after they are finished.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#5
09/24/2001 (9:58 am)
well, im being a little picky, i mean i could just check them all out, but its a little daunting going through them all, which is the only way i could feel sure i hadnt missed the proverbial needle in a haystack. its hard to know from the listings who is for real and who isnt. just seems like a lot of chaff and a little wheat. id like to see a few pages of teams that you guys feel confident are the real deal, instead of so many pages that will probably turn out to be dead ends, meaning games that will never be started, much less finished, or even remotely cool.
#6
I don't know what more you could ask for. I just went to the MArketplace and in looking through five help wanted ads, found three that I would consider following up on.
Look for the usual signs that a developer either knows what he is doing, or shows promise that he can get the job done. Desire counts for a lot in my book.
Good signs would be completely filled out Developer Profiles (which yours certainly is not) which show good communication skills, organization, and work samples. Next I would follow the link to the Project Page to get an overview of the project and who is already involved. There again, your profile fails, you have no project description.
From there I would follow the links to the developer's web site, and see if he has taken the time to create a good website. Is it hosted on something other than a free site? Does it use Flash? Is it connected to a database via PHP or Perl? If the guy is a programmer, I would be more concerned about the technical aspects of the site, but if the interface is good that is a plus as well. If the person claims to be a designer, then I would look for good web design, interface, and flow. Artists should have a lot of work samples and examples of how they could help a game project even if they do not have direct game experience.
Next, if I was still interested, I would follow up with an email or reply to the job posting. From there, a chat via ICQ or on the GG chat channel would allow you to find out if you are on the same page in game design philosophy or genre desires. Phone calls still work as well. I prefer to talk to the person on the phone before actually signing a deal, but I have worked with many people and never heard their voice.
Now, if it is still so far, so good, I would sign mutual Non-Disclosures and move to exchanging the actual design documents. Once you agree on the design, you can work out the contractual details, but that is the subject of another post.
Jeff, you ask me to separate the wheat from the chaff for you, but I would have to say that you need to look in the mirror before you call anybody chaff. Please don't take this constructive criticism wrong, but your GG image and website would not take me past stage one. I love your product idea, but feel your presentation will need a lot of work before it will attract the programming help you need.
Jeff Tunnell GG
09/24/2001 (12:24 pm)
Jeff,I don't know what more you could ask for. I just went to the MArketplace and in looking through five help wanted ads, found three that I would consider following up on.
Look for the usual signs that a developer either knows what he is doing, or shows promise that he can get the job done. Desire counts for a lot in my book.
Good signs would be completely filled out Developer Profiles (which yours certainly is not) which show good communication skills, organization, and work samples. Next I would follow the link to the Project Page to get an overview of the project and who is already involved. There again, your profile fails, you have no project description.
From there I would follow the links to the developer's web site, and see if he has taken the time to create a good website. Is it hosted on something other than a free site? Does it use Flash? Is it connected to a database via PHP or Perl? If the guy is a programmer, I would be more concerned about the technical aspects of the site, but if the interface is good that is a plus as well. If the person claims to be a designer, then I would look for good web design, interface, and flow. Artists should have a lot of work samples and examples of how they could help a game project even if they do not have direct game experience.
Next, if I was still interested, I would follow up with an email or reply to the job posting. From there, a chat via ICQ or on the GG chat channel would allow you to find out if you are on the same page in game design philosophy or genre desires. Phone calls still work as well. I prefer to talk to the person on the phone before actually signing a deal, but I have worked with many people and never heard their voice.
Now, if it is still so far, so good, I would sign mutual Non-Disclosures and move to exchanging the actual design documents. Once you agree on the design, you can work out the contractual details, but that is the subject of another post.
Jeff, you ask me to separate the wheat from the chaff for you, but I would have to say that you need to look in the mirror before you call anybody chaff. Please don't take this constructive criticism wrong, but your GG image and website would not take me past stage one. I love your product idea, but feel your presentation will need a lot of work before it will attract the programming help you need.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#7
If I might make a suggestion, it would be very helpful to have some manner of searching by pay. I very much like the marketplace even though I'm not ready to enter it. GarageGames did excellent work on this aspect of the site. However, I find it requires a lot of time to sort through the ads and find the ones that are actual paying jobs as opposed to "work for fun" or "work for royalities if it sells" type jobs. Maybe if the field for pay used presets something like this:
work for fun
work for royalties
work for negotiable pay
work for preset contract
work for direct hire to company
Then an interested job hunter could just select their type of work (artist, programmer, etc.) in the search engine, select the pay category they're looking for, and click search. That way those who are only looking for real paying jobs can skip over the non-paying and only possible royalty type jobs, which make up the majority. There's nothing wrong with those jobs, and that's more my league, but I could see how it might cause more developed individuals to not use the marketplace.
If I've totally missed a pay search type feature that already exists, then I apologize profusely.
Have a great day everyone.
09/25/2001 (12:22 am)
Perhaps this is what the other person was referring to as well. There seem to be a lot of ads, and the marketplace is very full-featured, but it is a little too general in browsing capability. If I might make a suggestion, it would be very helpful to have some manner of searching by pay. I very much like the marketplace even though I'm not ready to enter it. GarageGames did excellent work on this aspect of the site. However, I find it requires a lot of time to sort through the ads and find the ones that are actual paying jobs as opposed to "work for fun" or "work for royalities if it sells" type jobs. Maybe if the field for pay used presets something like this:
work for fun
work for royalties
work for negotiable pay
work for preset contract
work for direct hire to company
Then an interested job hunter could just select their type of work (artist, programmer, etc.) in the search engine, select the pay category they're looking for, and click search. That way those who are only looking for real paying jobs can skip over the non-paying and only possible royalty type jobs, which make up the majority. There's nothing wrong with those jobs, and that's more my league, but I could see how it might cause more developed individuals to not use the marketplace.
If I've totally missed a pay search type feature that already exists, then I apologize profusely.
Have a great day everyone.
#9
09/25/2001 (1:02 pm)
Hey, that's great! The power of suggestion in action. I'm glad I could contribute to this great site.
#10
1) The site is new and since it was up and the member base was large, there hasn't been enough time to develop a nice game.
2) The development part of the site is the only part done. Once that Play Games part is ready, it will be great.
3) I think a few people used this site only for recruiting and took off once the project got going. A good example of not doing this is that Myrmidon project. I enjoy just reading about there developments in those massive reports.
That is my $0.02 (Canadian, so it isn't really valuable :)
09/25/2001 (1:46 pm)
I really enjoy the marketplace and it was great to direct people interested in your project to (the help wanted ads). It was always there and was automated in sending applications and everything. I had a team of 4 people withing a few hours! I think some people are just a little skeptic because there are so many new developers here and we haven't seen any complete games yet because:1) The site is new and since it was up and the member base was large, there hasn't been enough time to develop a nice game.
2) The development part of the site is the only part done. Once that Play Games part is ready, it will be great.
3) I think a few people used this site only for recruiting and took off once the project got going. A good example of not doing this is that Myrmidon project. I enjoy just reading about there developments in those massive reports.
That is my $0.02 (Canadian, so it isn't really valuable :)
#11
i dont say all this just to be defensive, but to point out that i am very serious about my project - im just not ready to start the V12 running yet (i know its not V12 anymore, but torque doesnt lend itself to that particular metaphor).
again, im very glad to hear that you find my idea interesting, as i hope to work closely with you guys at GG to see the URGE created. i think it could be very good for my 'team', Garagegames, the mod community, and computer games in general.
anyways, i gotta grab a bite, im starving.
regards,
jeff
09/25/2001 (5:35 pm)
jeff, you are correct, my project is not adequately 'advertised.' and i certainly dont mind the criticism, its obviously well intended, if a trifle misplaced. i say that because i havent fleshed things out for a good reason - im not ready to. i have secured a solid source of funding, but it wont be available for months. as a consequence, i have to stick with my construction job until things fall into place, and i couldnt start work on the URGE now if i wanted to, even if my only role was to make sure a dream team produced exactly what i wanted! my posts concerning URGE at this point is simply to start a sounding board and see if anyone thought my idea was worthwhile, or an over-ambitious pile of shyte, or whatever. as for art samples, etc., as above, i dont have time to bring my portfolio up to speed (i have other projects going in my off-hours), and the one i have is insufficient, to say nothing of my broken scanner :(. in any event, im not even remotely interested in finding a job in the games industry, i want to make my own games.i dont say all this just to be defensive, but to point out that i am very serious about my project - im just not ready to start the V12 running yet (i know its not V12 anymore, but torque doesnt lend itself to that particular metaphor).
again, im very glad to hear that you find my idea interesting, as i hope to work closely with you guys at GG to see the URGE created. i think it could be very good for my 'team', Garagegames, the mod community, and computer games in general.
anyways, i gotta grab a bite, im starving.
regards,
jeff
#12
more to the point, my post must have sounded like me taking a big dump on something no doubt near and dear to your heart, the gg community. despite how it sounded, it wasnt and isnt indicative of how i feel. my grandmother always said that a gentleman is a man who never offends anyone by accident, so, i apologize if i offended you.
jeff
09/25/2001 (6:34 pm)
also, after rereading my post and yours, i feel i owe you an apology. from the way i worded it, it comes across like i think most of the gg community is crap. thats not the way i feel at all. once the community does get going - the tools are very new after all - i confess mho that the lions share will just be kids tinkering, but so what? that leaves PLENTY of room for the more serious endeavors. but this isnt even what i was trying to say with the post. what i was trying to say with the whole wheat and chaff thing was that i didnt want to wade throught the chaff of projects that were of no interest to ME, not the chaff of projects of no interest to ANYONE. i very strongly believe that one man's paradise is another man's perdition, and my opinion is just that, an opinion. after all whos to say life is not a dewdrop within a dewdrop...more to the point, my post must have sounded like me taking a big dump on something no doubt near and dear to your heart, the gg community. despite how it sounded, it wasnt and isnt indicative of how i feel. my grandmother always said that a gentleman is a man who never offends anyone by accident, so, i apologize if i offended you.
jeff
#13
We welcome all of the young people experimenting with the engine and tools. All of the best programmers and developers that I now work with were either in high school or college when we started working together. The desire and intellect needed to make games seems to come to fruition early in life.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
Jeff Tunnell GG
09/25/2001 (7:12 pm)
Thanks Jeff.We welcome all of the young people experimenting with the engine and tools. All of the best programmers and developers that I now work with were either in high school or college when we started working together. The desire and intellect needed to make games seems to come to fruition early in life.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
Jeff Tunnell GG
Charles D'Arienzo