Trespassing: Can Torque3D handle my project?
by Larry Ellis · in Torque 3D Beginner · 01/02/2014 (9:46 pm) · 2 replies
Hello everyone, my first post here.
I'm currently looking at my options for the next stage of development for my project.
My project is a remake of the 1998 game Trespasser, and is currently being developed as a Mod for Crysis 1 (cryengine 2).
http://trespassingpetrolia.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trespassingpetrolia/
My first release is due in a few months, and after this release my plan was to switch development over to the latest Cryengine, essentially abandoning the CE2 work.
Unfortunately the latest Cryengine still has no support for the Oculus Rift and i'm not even sure it supports the Razer Hydra yet, which are two devices i plan to optimize my project for from day one. They have also just removed support for terrains larger than 4096x4096 and mentioned they will be implementing a new "segmented worlds" system in a future release.
This kind of ever changing nature of the engine is not very dependable in my eyes. In the past there have been new builds that have messed with peoples work, requiring them to update their projects because core engine features and elements messed up their levels. In some cases, peoples levels were totally corrupted and all their work was lost. Not good!
Before things got that bad, i had already decided to use CE2, because the terrain in CE3 was pretty broken and had an issue when you got above a certain altitude, it became blocky and looked like minecraft. This issue was pretty much ignored by Crytek and the staff at Crydev, they would instead question why you were tying to use "impracical and unrealistic" large terrains, when in fact it was happening in terrains as small as 2048. It took them a very long time to fix, but long before they did, i decided to develop as a mod instead to put to use all the Crysis game assets to speed up my development.
My project has been through a few different stages of development as i learn new things and discover errors ive made a long the way. I'm now at a point where im ready to start working on a serious Protoype, and im hoping to avoid Cryengine if possible, because the lack of support and the attitude of Crydev staff is truly horrible.
When i asked them recently why there was still no Oculus support, they said it was not a worthwhile investment due to the early uncertain nature of the product, that its a risk devoting any serious time supporting it because there is no commercial product and the time spent could potentially be wasted.
Okay.
As of writing, none of the Crysis games or Cryengines have any official Oculus support.
Valve added official support to the now 10 year old HL2.
Anyway, i'm liking what im seeing of Torque3D in the showoff thread and i would like to ask a few questions about the engine and what kind of scale it supports.
My current CE2 work is using a 4096x4096 heightmap. This is on a scale of one pixel of the heightmap equals one metre in the game. So its 4.096kilomteres.
My heightmap is an island made up of the individual Trespasser levels, extracted and then stitched together using 3D Studio Max. This took a long time! The scale of these levels once imported into Cryengine is actually smaller than they are in the original game, so in order to get the scale correct, i had to scale it up by 18%. This meant a 4096 heightmap was no longer large enough, and in order to provide sufficient space and a generous buffer around the coast, an 8192 size heightmap was needed.
I wont be using this new 8192 heightmap until the next stage of development.
This new 8192x8192 heightmap has been imported into both CE2 and the latest CE(3.5.5) for testing, and it runs perfectly in both engines, with no issues. @ a resolution of 1 pixel equals 1 metre.
So my first question is, will Torque3D support a heightmap this large and at the same resolution of 1 pixel equals 1 metre?
This is kind of a deal breaker for me if it doesn't, as my game need to take place in one large level. There are moments where you can see all of the island from one position, and if you couldn't it would look pretty bad. The game will also have a very open and non linear gameplay for the second half, something which would not be possible with individual levels.
Anyway, ill just start with that one question and a bit of back story. Be sure to check the project blog and Flickr page to get an idea of how things look and if you think its possible with Torque3D.
Thanks guys.
I'm currently looking at my options for the next stage of development for my project.
My project is a remake of the 1998 game Trespasser, and is currently being developed as a Mod for Crysis 1 (cryengine 2).
http://trespassingpetrolia.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trespassingpetrolia/
My first release is due in a few months, and after this release my plan was to switch development over to the latest Cryengine, essentially abandoning the CE2 work.
Unfortunately the latest Cryengine still has no support for the Oculus Rift and i'm not even sure it supports the Razer Hydra yet, which are two devices i plan to optimize my project for from day one. They have also just removed support for terrains larger than 4096x4096 and mentioned they will be implementing a new "segmented worlds" system in a future release.
This kind of ever changing nature of the engine is not very dependable in my eyes. In the past there have been new builds that have messed with peoples work, requiring them to update their projects because core engine features and elements messed up their levels. In some cases, peoples levels were totally corrupted and all their work was lost. Not good!
Before things got that bad, i had already decided to use CE2, because the terrain in CE3 was pretty broken and had an issue when you got above a certain altitude, it became blocky and looked like minecraft. This issue was pretty much ignored by Crytek and the staff at Crydev, they would instead question why you were tying to use "impracical and unrealistic" large terrains, when in fact it was happening in terrains as small as 2048. It took them a very long time to fix, but long before they did, i decided to develop as a mod instead to put to use all the Crysis game assets to speed up my development.
My project has been through a few different stages of development as i learn new things and discover errors ive made a long the way. I'm now at a point where im ready to start working on a serious Protoype, and im hoping to avoid Cryengine if possible, because the lack of support and the attitude of Crydev staff is truly horrible.
When i asked them recently why there was still no Oculus support, they said it was not a worthwhile investment due to the early uncertain nature of the product, that its a risk devoting any serious time supporting it because there is no commercial product and the time spent could potentially be wasted.
Okay.
As of writing, none of the Crysis games or Cryengines have any official Oculus support.
Valve added official support to the now 10 year old HL2.
Anyway, i'm liking what im seeing of Torque3D in the showoff thread and i would like to ask a few questions about the engine and what kind of scale it supports.
My current CE2 work is using a 4096x4096 heightmap. This is on a scale of one pixel of the heightmap equals one metre in the game. So its 4.096kilomteres.
My heightmap is an island made up of the individual Trespasser levels, extracted and then stitched together using 3D Studio Max. This took a long time! The scale of these levels once imported into Cryengine is actually smaller than they are in the original game, so in order to get the scale correct, i had to scale it up by 18%. This meant a 4096 heightmap was no longer large enough, and in order to provide sufficient space and a generous buffer around the coast, an 8192 size heightmap was needed.
I wont be using this new 8192 heightmap until the next stage of development.
This new 8192x8192 heightmap has been imported into both CE2 and the latest CE(3.5.5) for testing, and it runs perfectly in both engines, with no issues. @ a resolution of 1 pixel equals 1 metre.
So my first question is, will Torque3D support a heightmap this large and at the same resolution of 1 pixel equals 1 metre?
This is kind of a deal breaker for me if it doesn't, as my game need to take place in one large level. There are moments where you can see all of the island from one position, and if you couldn't it would look pretty bad. The game will also have a very open and non linear gameplay for the second half, something which would not be possible with individual levels.
Anyway, ill just start with that one question and a bit of back story. Be sure to check the project blog and Flickr page to get an idea of how things look and if you think its possible with Torque3D.
Thanks guys.
#2
I did some reading, and I think from an artists perspective, Torque might require that I have a moderately experienced programmer helping me, to implement not only the terrain additions, but quite a few more features too.
I've got a lot on my plate, and even if its a pretty straight forward process, its yet one more thing I have to learn in an already very long list of jobs I've taken on.
Unity looks to be a bit more approachable for someone like me, and initial tests gave been successful with loading my heightmap, but I'll have to take a closer look to be sure its the right choice.
Thanks heaps for your help though!
I might be back later on, you never know.
Cheers.
01/03/2014 (11:42 am)
Cheers, thanks for those links!I did some reading, and I think from an artists perspective, Torque might require that I have a moderately experienced programmer helping me, to implement not only the terrain additions, but quite a few more features too.
I've got a lot on my plate, and even if its a pretty straight forward process, its yet one more thing I have to learn in an already very long list of jobs I've taken on.
Unity looks to be a bit more approachable for someone like me, and initial tests gave been successful with loading my heightmap, but I'll have to take a closer look to be sure its the right choice.
Thanks heaps for your help though!
I might be back later on, you never know.
Cheers.
Benjamin Stanley
Larry Ellis - Hello and Welcome :)
I am also a member at the CryEngine Community so I am going to answer your questions to the best of my ability with my knowledge of both engines. :)
In short the "Segmented worlds" feature in CryEngine is basically an bridge for larger game worlds. Basically it will stream terrain and provide a solution for the float point problems that people making very large games face. You just need to make use of Level of Detail (LODs) and the like.
Tourqe3D is awesome they have open sourced it and you can find the full source code here under the MIT license.
http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque-3d
You might need to know C++ to implement your own/Cleaner solution for terrain paging but this should get you by for now. :)
http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/135608
As for can it handle your project I would say - Yes. You would need to make aggressive use of LODs and Occlusion culling but you would be able to do it with Torque 3D.
EDIT:
I did not see your question. :|
Yes - As long as you have a terrain paging/Streaming solution ready. You would be able to do this with one level. I am not sure about the terrain detail though.