Committee Meeting Notes: 05/21/2013
by David Wyand · in Torque 3D Beginner · 05/27/2013 (10:30 am) · 13 replies
In this week's meeting we continued to discuss the T3D v4.0 release plan that will be posted to the community this week. As discussed in last week's meeting the current plan is to have a heavy focus on documentation and tutorials, as well as a modular template system.
We also talked about trying something different this time around by directly asking the community to help out on various projects. In the past we've asked the community to help out with fixing the bugs listed on GitHub, as well as submitting whatever interests them that they feel will also be of interest to the community as a whole. Unfortunately, we've not seen a lot of community participation with the last two releases.
For v4.0 we are going to list a number of projects that people may participate in. This will cover both programming and art. While the Steering Committee has come up with the initial list of projects, community members are free to propose other topics and work on them. We'll see how things go this time around and adjust as necessary for the future.
Something else we discussed was how to better help those users that don't want to recompile the engine. With the removal of the two PhysX templates in TD 3.0, we hadn't considered how this impacts those users that were making use of the compiled binaries in those templates. With this in mind we're thinking of creating a binary file cache that may be pulled from by the Project Manager.
- Dave
We also talked about trying something different this time around by directly asking the community to help out on various projects. In the past we've asked the community to help out with fixing the bugs listed on GitHub, as well as submitting whatever interests them that they feel will also be of interest to the community as a whole. Unfortunately, we've not seen a lot of community participation with the last two releases.
For v4.0 we are going to list a number of projects that people may participate in. This will cover both programming and art. While the Steering Committee has come up with the initial list of projects, community members are free to propose other topics and work on them. We'll see how things go this time around and adjust as necessary for the future.
Something else we discussed was how to better help those users that don't want to recompile the engine. With the removal of the two PhysX templates in TD 3.0, we hadn't considered how this impacts those users that were making use of the compiled binaries in those templates. With this in mind we're thinking of creating a binary file cache that may be pulled from by the Project Manager.
- Dave
About the author
A long time Associate of the GarageGames' community and author of the Torque 3D Game Development Cookbook. Buy it today from Packt Publishing!
#2
05/27/2013 (11:18 am)
Issues and Pull Requests... are "projects". 
#3
Besides Pull Requests are finished projects and Issues are just.. Well issues and stuff that needs to be fixed. You shouldn't create an issue with "I want indirect lightning yo!".
05/27/2013 (11:21 am)
@Michael perhaps but there isn't any list of what people are working, neither any collaborative movement as to organize the community around the pull requests. People are just sitting around working on their own stuff and ideas and fixes, instead of organizing development a little.Besides Pull Requests are finished projects and Issues are just.. Well issues and stuff that needs to be fixed. You shouldn't create an issue with "I want indirect lightning yo!".
#4
The problem with organizing a mass group effort on our end is that we do not know who is willing to help or know what their capabilities are.
The Issues section exists as known problems that anyone is welcome to say "I can fix this". These can then be assigned to someone so that others will know who is working on it. For things that people are working on on their own Pull Requests are welcome for anything -- all we do is review them for suitability. We have denied a few Pull Requests for technical reasons and have explained why for each one. Once the PR has been resubmitted it will then be reviewed again, yet not all authors have re-submitted their contributions as result of that.
If the community feels that they need a list of what people are working on we can try and keep a wiki page active that everyone who wants to be involved can help keep maintained -- but it's up to the Community to be actively involved in that. The Committee will then provide simple oversight and further direction if needed.
05/27/2013 (11:44 am)
The community can step up at anytime to help us enact changes and help keep T3D maintained. Each release has had a planned outline that anyone from the community was welcome to help out with. Along with that is any discussion that arises from these meeting notes. All anyone has to do is let the Steering Committee know that "I" plan on doing something... very few have. The problem with organizing a mass group effort on our end is that we do not know who is willing to help or know what their capabilities are.
The Issues section exists as known problems that anyone is welcome to say "I can fix this". These can then be assigned to someone so that others will know who is working on it. For things that people are working on on their own Pull Requests are welcome for anything -- all we do is review them for suitability. We have denied a few Pull Requests for technical reasons and have explained why for each one. Once the PR has been resubmitted it will then be reviewed again, yet not all authors have re-submitted their contributions as result of that.
If the community feels that they need a list of what people are working on we can try and keep a wiki page active that everyone who wants to be involved can help keep maintained -- but it's up to the Community to be actively involved in that. The Committee will then provide simple oversight and further direction if needed.
#5
Albeit this is a general issue with GG.com, stuff dissappear. Awesome features people are working on, awesome games, awesome resources, it's incredibly hard to dig up unless you know what to look for.
So I think a visible wiki page could be sufficient.
05/27/2013 (11:49 am)
I do agree it is up to the community to create and maintain community projects. Right now it just seems to me it is not obvious where to do it or where to look for it. Sure you can create a blog about, 1 week and it's gone from sight on the main site. Forum post? 3 days and it's gone.Albeit this is a general issue with GG.com, stuff dissappear. Awesome features people are working on, awesome games, awesome resources, it's incredibly hard to dig up unless you know what to look for.
So I think a visible wiki page could be sufficient.
#6
05/27/2013 (12:43 pm)
Thanks for the update, Dave. 
#7
While not about development per se, I've always thought the C4 wiki was a good effort - something like that could be very useful for documentation as well as development. www.terathon.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Just to get things rolling - I'd like to participate in helping out. I have limited time and am not an experienced developer. I've been focusing on low hanging fruit for adding neat little features that just need a little bit of work to coax the engine into doing something it already was close to.
I did the terrain macro texture stuff, and could probably throw in a specular layer as well. I'm not convinced that is a good idea, but I am open to discussion. I've got a pull request for the alpha skyboxes sitting around, and if that needs a re-think or more work, do let me know. I've got ribbon particles well underway. These are handy for trails and getting a certain look to some smoke or perhaps electrical effects.
(Just to give you an idea - I wouldn't actually use one looking like that)
I've looked at the bug list on github, and I *might* be able to tackle - #256 github.com/GarageGames/Torque3D/issues/256. I'd give that a shot.
I'm willing to contribute terrain and terrain textures, and would be willing to write documentation about the terrain system.
05/27/2013 (12:57 pm)
I agree that the GG.com site doesn't foster group collaboration. Someone visiting it probably wouldn't notice a group of people co-operating on improving a 3D engine. There is useful stuff buried in the resources and forums, but a great deal of it is outdated and has unclear ownership. Something centralized that also had fresh lists of people and what they were doing would be great. I suppose something like what the Torque Developer Network was supposed to be like is called for?While not about development per se, I've always thought the C4 wiki was a good effort - something like that could be very useful for documentation as well as development. www.terathon.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Just to get things rolling - I'd like to participate in helping out. I have limited time and am not an experienced developer. I've been focusing on low hanging fruit for adding neat little features that just need a little bit of work to coax the engine into doing something it already was close to.
I did the terrain macro texture stuff, and could probably throw in a specular layer as well. I'm not convinced that is a good idea, but I am open to discussion. I've got a pull request for the alpha skyboxes sitting around, and if that needs a re-think or more work, do let me know. I've got ribbon particles well underway. These are handy for trails and getting a certain look to some smoke or perhaps electrical effects.
(Just to give you an idea - I wouldn't actually use one looking like that)
I've looked at the bug list on github, and I *might* be able to tackle - #256 github.com/GarageGames/Torque3D/issues/256. I'd give that a shot.
I'm willing to contribute terrain and terrain textures, and would be willing to write documentation about the terrain system.
#8
The types of projects we were looking for (and maybe the word "projects" is too loaded with other meanings and we should call them tasks) are running Cppcheck on the code base and making the appropriate changes, or update the Bullet library to the latest version.
We have about 7 programming tasks and a couple of art tasks that we'll start with and see how things go. This list isn't meant to be all encompassing. Some people are unsure how they can help out so hopefully this will get people started. Of course, none of this stops people creating Pull Requests for things they are working on and would like to contribute, or stopping people from working on the Issues list on GitHub.
The Steering Committee has talked about putting together a Wiki page where we can list any projects the community is working on that would like contributions from other community members. Are there any projects that are currently being worked on that have stalled because their forum post or blog fell off the bottom of the main page? If so, feel free to list it in the comments of this posting and we can see about listing it on the Wiki page.
But let me share a little secret about how to maintain interest and general knowledge about a community project: post frequent updates. That's generally what you need to do across the Internet, be it here or elsewhere. If the last time you wrote about your project was two or three months ago, I'm not sure that having a link on a Wiki page will encourage people to join you.
- Dave
05/27/2013 (1:06 pm)
@Lukas:The types of projects we were looking for (and maybe the word "projects" is too loaded with other meanings and we should call them tasks) are running Cppcheck on the code base and making the appropriate changes, or update the Bullet library to the latest version.
We have about 7 programming tasks and a couple of art tasks that we'll start with and see how things go. This list isn't meant to be all encompassing. Some people are unsure how they can help out so hopefully this will get people started. Of course, none of this stops people creating Pull Requests for things they are working on and would like to contribute, or stopping people from working on the Issues list on GitHub.
The Steering Committee has talked about putting together a Wiki page where we can list any projects the community is working on that would like contributions from other community members. Are there any projects that are currently being worked on that have stalled because their forum post or blog fell off the bottom of the main page? If so, feel free to list it in the comments of this posting and we can see about listing it on the Wiki page.
But let me share a little secret about how to maintain interest and general knowledge about a community project: post frequent updates. That's generally what you need to do across the Internet, be it here or elsewhere. If the last time you wrote about your project was two or three months ago, I'm not sure that having a link on a Wiki page will encourage people to join you.
- Dave
#9
Adam: those ribbon particles look great!
05/27/2013 (3:09 pm)
Can't wait to see the new release plan. I aim to jump on board and start taking on a few projects when uni's over for the semester - two more weeks! These modular templates are sounding great, though they're hurting my motivation to work on t3d-bones ;P.Adam: those ribbon particles look great!
#10
Frequent news and updates about each project needs to be highly visible.
I am interested to see the tasks that get put out.
Thanks for the update as always!
05/27/2013 (7:59 pm)
I think the current planned T3D release needs to be on the website and in your face. And then you can view the tasks and see who is doing what, and see if you can add anything to that task.Frequent news and updates about each project needs to be highly visible.
I am interested to see the tasks that get put out.
Thanks for the update as always!
#11
- Fork a copy of T3D if you don't have one
- Clone it to your own PC
- Check out the development branch
- Check out a new branch named something descriptive
- Make the changes
- Push to 'origin my-new-branch'
- Pull request your branch using the 'pull request' button at the top of you repo page
- Select 'development' as the base branch
- Profit
05/28/2013 (1:34 am)
Dave's given us a nice easy one to start with. If anyone wants to get on board with the whole pull-request process, I'd take a look! What you do:- Fork a copy of T3D if you don't have one
- Clone it to your own PC
- Check out the development branch
- Check out a new branch named something descriptive
- Make the changes
- Push to 'origin my-new-branch'
- Pull request your branch using the 'pull request' button at the top of you repo page
- Select 'development' as the base branch
- Profit
#12
Can we get Torque 3D 4.0 to have some sort of HIDE features?
Suppose you want to work with only two objects in the World Editor then you can select the 2 Objects in somewhere (maybe make a tick on some respective button), CLICK, then only those 2 objects will be rendered in the World Editor.
You can then get the work done (that maybe for eg. position/rotation without having to see/select/touch other Objects) then you'd have to UN-Click those Buttons to get the whole Scene rendered again.
Sort of what you can get in 3d Modelling Applications..
05/28/2013 (1:47 am)
I know i'll sound dumb with this but i'm going to write it anyway:Can we get Torque 3D 4.0 to have some sort of HIDE features?
Suppose you want to work with only two objects in the World Editor then you can select the 2 Objects in somewhere (maybe make a tick on some respective button), CLICK, then only those 2 objects will be rendered in the World Editor.
You can then get the work done (that maybe for eg. position/rotation without having to see/select/touch other Objects) then you'd have to UN-Click those Buttons to get the whole Scene rendered again.
Sort of what you can get in 3d Modelling Applications..
Torque Owner Lukas Joergensen
WinterLeaf Entertainment
How big projects are we talking?
While I think that it is great to have a Linux project or Mac project running, smaller projects might be interesting aswell.. Like improving the world editor, or a collaborative tutorial project.
Or simply discussion pages on how to fix certain bugs.
About the compiled binaries, maybe the project manager could come with a c++ compiler? (Don't know how many issues there is to have a redistributable c++ compiler mind you)
That would also ease the process for these users to integrate small changes. (Overwrite files with ones from resource, recompile in project manager [granted this would only work in flawless resources])
Oh oh here's an idea, what about a resource header you could put in the resource files, then the projectmanager have an "import resource" section that could check the header and see if it was compatible with the T3D version? And of course check if those files have already been changed by a resource, maybe even be able to revert implementation of resources.... Basically a kind of a pseudo plug-in system.