How does GarageGames exist? ($$$$?)
by RJAG Entertainment · in Torque 2D Beginner · 03/16/2013 (8:00 pm) · 10 replies
I'm sorry if this is out of place, but I could not find any other forum section to ask this question under. As someone who has always liked GarageGames and T2D, I am legitimately curious.
Why did GarageGames release the torque engines for free MIT? This is a very generous thing, and ultimately a very positive event. However, why would a company do this if it is their product? I hope this is not an inappropriate question. I would just love to hear that the good developers of T2D are being payed for their hard work, and how/why/if they will all be sticking around for the long haul. After all, companies typically don't work full time, for free, for no reason. People have to eat and deserve to get payed for work.
Granted I have heard many assumptions as to why a company would radically go full free MIT, but obviously there are still employees here, right? I assume they are still being payed to work hard? Or is everyone doing this for free as spare time heroes?
I am not asking for a detailed financial report, lol, I am merely wondering how this is all supported. Like if someone gave a grant to make it MIT and pay for development just for the good of the world, I'd like to know so I can put them on my list of good companies.
It is always good to know generous people, such as the very generous GarageGames that releases two very powerful engines for absolutely free AND open source. This is a great thing for the game-dev world IMO. Something that even those who don't use Torque products should be grateful for. Open Source is always a pro for society.
Why did GarageGames release the torque engines for free MIT? This is a very generous thing, and ultimately a very positive event. However, why would a company do this if it is their product? I hope this is not an inappropriate question. I would just love to hear that the good developers of T2D are being payed for their hard work, and how/why/if they will all be sticking around for the long haul. After all, companies typically don't work full time, for free, for no reason. People have to eat and deserve to get payed for work.
Granted I have heard many assumptions as to why a company would radically go full free MIT, but obviously there are still employees here, right? I assume they are still being payed to work hard? Or is everyone doing this for free as spare time heroes?
I am not asking for a detailed financial report, lol, I am merely wondering how this is all supported. Like if someone gave a grant to make it MIT and pay for development just for the good of the world, I'd like to know so I can put them on my list of good companies.
It is always good to know generous people, such as the very generous GarageGames that releases two very powerful engines for absolutely free AND open source. This is a great thing for the game-dev world IMO. Something that even those who don't use Torque products should be grateful for. Open Source is always a pro for society.
About the author
#3
* Generate good will. There are still some folks out there who will post opinions or reviews based on negative experiences they had years ago, even though it was a different company under different leadership. We wanted to show the world that the new GarageGames is all about fostering development, without monetizing the main engines.
* Torque 2D is a great engine and GarageGames wants it to reach as many people as possible. An open source engine with no restrictions can do this better than a $99 engine with a tight license.
* The game engine licensing business is a bloody battle. We started the trend, but lost footing to competitors. With all the free options out there, it was difficult to keep up. Additionally, we are a very small company. Trying to maintain multiple engines with all the obligation on us became a losing battle. Instead, we decided that our engines belong to everyone. Everyone is allowed to contribute, consume, and do what they wish. Now, "our" means GarageGames and everyone else.
* We found a way of generating revenue that is more stable and lucrative. Rather than shelving the engines and letting them die, we wanted to give them new life that does not rely on us. We are still contributors, but now the engines can continue with or without us.
As Ron said, we are generating revenue via contract service work. It's doing quite well. One benefit of releasing the engines under MIT was to spread awareness of GarageGames. The more people know of us, the better our chances of getting contract work.
03/17/2013 (6:25 am)
My AnswerQuote:What's the deal with the "MIT Open Source"? Why was Torque 2D switched?Because we're nice guys? While a joking statement, there is some truth to it. The following are the primary reasons we released the engine under the MIT license:
* Generate good will. There are still some folks out there who will post opinions or reviews based on negative experiences they had years ago, even though it was a different company under different leadership. We wanted to show the world that the new GarageGames is all about fostering development, without monetizing the main engines.
* Torque 2D is a great engine and GarageGames wants it to reach as many people as possible. An open source engine with no restrictions can do this better than a $99 engine with a tight license.
* The game engine licensing business is a bloody battle. We started the trend, but lost footing to competitors. With all the free options out there, it was difficult to keep up. Additionally, we are a very small company. Trying to maintain multiple engines with all the obligation on us became a losing battle. Instead, we decided that our engines belong to everyone. Everyone is allowed to contribute, consume, and do what they wish. Now, "our" means GarageGames and everyone else.
* We found a way of generating revenue that is more stable and lucrative. Rather than shelving the engines and letting them die, we wanted to give them new life that does not rely on us. We are still contributors, but now the engines can continue with or without us.
As Ron said, we are generating revenue via contract service work. It's doing quite well. One benefit of releasing the engines under MIT was to spread awareness of GarageGames. The more people know of us, the better our chances of getting contract work.
#4
03/17/2013 (9:37 am)
Thank you everyone, it is good to know that everyone wins in this company! 
#5
I think this would do wonders for awareness, and I believe it would help to drive contract service work as well. I know you guys are already busy over there, but I think this idea might actually drive growth.
03/17/2013 (12:14 pm)
I still think GG should make a 4~6 hour game to showcase T3D, perhaps an RTS or RPG instead of a FPS. Something that they could put together in < 6 months preferably. Release the game cheap or free but with a break-down of how the game was built - labor hours, design time, perhaps even release the design docs - so that people can see how long it takes to do what was done for a team familiar with the engine.I think this would do wonders for awareness, and I believe it would help to drive contract service work as well. I know you guys are already busy over there, but I think this idea might actually drive growth.
#6
I agree. One of my pet projects with the T3D steering committee; I am working on the documents and other assorted plans in order to do something along those lines for T3D.
Basically I am planning on using the Blender project model and apply it to Torque. With Blender they develop animated shorts and things like that in order to see what is needed (from a production standpoint) and what can improved upon with Blender as a consumer product. For each 'project' they develop tools, code, etc and add them to the next public release of Blender.
Once we get T3D to a more 'solid' state (Not that its not solid now, it just needs more bug fixes and things... before we can go adding new stuff), I will gather a group and we will start working on an open source game. We will document how it was made etc.... The goal of the project will be to go from start to finish with the engine, document and fix any issues, release the project with all assets to the public as a fully featured game, and add or fix anything found lacking to the next release of the engine. I am hoping that with the T3D 3.0 release, we can start working on this and get things rolling. Assuming the plan works, we will then pick a different type of game and do it all over again until we cover many different genres and styles...it could go on and on and on.
Ron
03/17/2013 (5:14 pm)
Richard,I agree. One of my pet projects with the T3D steering committee; I am working on the documents and other assorted plans in order to do something along those lines for T3D.
Basically I am planning on using the Blender project model and apply it to Torque. With Blender they develop animated shorts and things like that in order to see what is needed (from a production standpoint) and what can improved upon with Blender as a consumer product. For each 'project' they develop tools, code, etc and add them to the next public release of Blender.
Once we get T3D to a more 'solid' state (Not that its not solid now, it just needs more bug fixes and things... before we can go adding new stuff), I will gather a group and we will start working on an open source game. We will document how it was made etc.... The goal of the project will be to go from start to finish with the engine, document and fix any issues, release the project with all assets to the public as a fully featured game, and add or fix anything found lacking to the next release of the engine. I am hoping that with the T3D 3.0 release, we can start working on this and get things rolling. Assuming the plan works, we will then pick a different type of game and do it all over again until we cover many different genres and styles...it could go on and on and on.
Ron
#7
03/18/2013 (7:17 am)
@Richard - I don't think GG should do that. It's not reasonable to dedicated time and resources to a project that will not make money, to showcase a product that is completely free. It just doesn't make sense. Mini-demos have actually paid off better for showcasing the technology. Great examples include Dave's marble demo for Leapmotion or the Sandbox+toys for T2D. These do not take long to create and illustrate what the engines are good at.
#8
I'd have to say that if it wasn't sold it'd probably have to be written off as an advertising expense (and a fairly large one).
Ultimately, this would probably have been more effective before the MIT move.
But on that note, any studio that pulls this off could probably reap some benefits in visibility and contract work. Or they could continue to release episodic content. Or both.
Of course, if it doesn't fit the current fiscal climate then it wouldn't be good to dump the money into it.
@Ron - That is another really cool option; Have the steering committee recruit people to build something like this as a way to raise awareness and to provide examples to users.
03/18/2013 (2:31 pm)
My main reason for suggesting that GG do this (actually, any studio that could pull it off in a professional manner) is because it's a studio of professionals producing something with the engine. This lends credence to the time and cost information that would be provided at the end of the project. It would also show that the studio that produced it could actually handle any related service work and showcase their staff's capabilities.I'd have to say that if it wasn't sold it'd probably have to be written off as an advertising expense (and a fairly large one).
Ultimately, this would probably have been more effective before the MIT move.
But on that note, any studio that pulls this off could probably reap some benefits in visibility and contract work. Or they could continue to release episodic content. Or both.
Of course, if it doesn't fit the current fiscal climate then it wouldn't be good to dump the money into it.
@Ron - That is another really cool option; Have the steering committee recruit people to build something like this as a way to raise awareness and to provide examples to users.
#9
03/19/2013 (7:30 pm)
I do want to help out with the demo, but I have not heard much about it lately. I am glad it is still in the forefront. 
Associate Ron Kapaun
3tdstudios.com
Ron