FBX Importer for T3D ?
by Scott Warren · in Torque 3D Professional · 01/20/2013 (11:59 am) · 50 replies
T3D needs an FBX Importer and there is a free FBX Importer SDK at AutoDesk's site for the purpose.
It simply works. The Iris isn't completed, there are other parts to the entire object and isn't textured yet. But it sure is nice to see my art actually work somewhere, other than the Lightwave editors.
Collada is great for many things in T3D, but it is keeping many people from getting the correct results, dependant on the art software that a person uses.
3dsMax is not the most desirably software for every Indie Developer. With a price tag of more than $4,000 USD, it's even out of reach for many would-be game developers. So why not just include the FBX importer in the source code.
I am personally getting quite frustrated with getting Collada art into T3D with animations.. to the point that even after being around for so many years and dedicated to Torque, I am really considering dropping the entire Torque engine and just use Unity.
But being a (several) license holder for the older varieties of the engine, I'd much prefer to stay with Torque.
- T3D seems to lean towards Autodesk 3dsMax for compatibility.
- Most of the Store assets content is in the form of 3dsMax files.
- Nearly everything an Indie / Artist would want to get into the engine is viable with FBX. Here is a link to see what is supported with Softimage XSI FBX ( owned by Autodesk ): softimage.wiki.softimage.com/xsidocs/import_export_xwalk4xsi_SupportedSceneEleme...
- I've tested Lightwave FBX export to Unity game engine that supports the FBX import for game assets without any problem.
- Importing Collada into the Unity game engine gives me the same error results I see in T3D Object Editor, so clearly their must be something about Collada that just isn't working.
It simply works. The Iris isn't completed, there are other parts to the entire object and isn't textured yet. But it sure is nice to see my art actually work somewhere, other than the Lightwave editors.
Collada is great for many things in T3D, but it is keeping many people from getting the correct results, dependant on the art software that a person uses.
3dsMax is not the most desirably software for every Indie Developer. With a price tag of more than $4,000 USD, it's even out of reach for many would-be game developers. So why not just include the FBX importer in the source code.
I am personally getting quite frustrated with getting Collada art into T3D with animations.. to the point that even after being around for so many years and dedicated to Torque, I am really considering dropping the entire Torque engine and just use Unity.
But being a (several) license holder for the older varieties of the engine, I'd much prefer to stay with Torque.
#2
I know that the software supports FBX but it may also be able to add FBX support to T3D.. Investigate it :)
Edit here the FBX Import blog
Ecstasy Motion is made in T3D so their FBX import would work in a normal engine environment, only problem is whether that FBX import can be integrated into your game or not.. You could probably ask nicely if you buy the product :P
01/20/2013 (12:07 pm)
Ah here it was: Ecstasy Motion!I know that the software supports FBX but it may also be able to add FBX support to T3D.. Investigate it :)
Edit here the FBX Import blog
Ecstasy Motion is made in T3D so their FBX import would work in a normal engine environment, only problem is whether that FBX import can be integrated into your game or not.. You could probably ask nicely if you buy the product :P
#3
I'll give it some thought. But I'd prefer to use Torque as is, with just an FBX import ability because buying EM ( though it is an option ) is far more that I need. Sort of like buying a BMW to go 1 city block to get a paper bag.
01/20/2013 (12:19 pm)
Impressive software EM seems to be. I appreciate that link. At least FBX hasn't been over-looked as a viable means of getting art into T3D.I'll give it some thought. But I'd prefer to use Torque as is, with just an FBX import ability because buying EM ( though it is an option ) is far more that I need. Sort of like buying a BMW to go 1 city block to get a paper bag.
#4
01/20/2013 (12:21 pm)
Maybe you can talk them into selling the FBX importer seperately ^^ 
#5
As is Softimage does not even fully support the full FBX format.
01/20/2013 (2:26 pm)
I agree that it would be nice to be only reliant on FBX and a model format. I like you hate Collada. But your argument that Softimage has having a MSRP of $3145 is cheaper then 3DS Max having a MSRP of $3675 is not a valid argument.As is Softimage does not even fully support the full FBX format.
#6
PS if anyone has started a proper FBX importer, send me an email.
Ron
01/20/2013 (2:29 pm)
Just an FYI, an FBX importer is one of the first things I asked for and the community steering committee agrees. We just have not had time to work it into the mix yet. We need it, and I will bring it up again in tomorrow's meeting. I am thinking this should maybe raised up in priority. More to follow on this topic. PS if anyone has started a proper FBX importer, send me an email.
Ron
#7
BTW, if it helps check out Blender's import. I have successfully imported a T3D DAE player model (the KPBot) complete with animations, texture mapping, etc to where the model looks exactly like it is supposed to look in game. This did not work in 2.61 of Blender, but now works in 2.65a. This tells me that at least Blender has fixed a lot of their Collada issues. Blender may import light wave and export a proper DAE. Give that a try.
This is why FBX is not supported in Blender:
blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?241595-Blender-FBX-Import
There may be similar issues with using the FBX SDK in T3D. It is a proprietary format. T3D is completely Open Source. It would be a bad idea to tack on a proprietary format library when Collada is supposed to be the interchange format. It may not even be legal due to licensing.
BTW, I think there is lack luster motivation of proprietary vendors to properly support Collada. Especially Autodesk whose business strategy is "vendor lock in". They want you to be stuck using a proprietary format. It is also in their interest (at least from their POV) to dissuade you from using open formats. So they don't support it properly and make it look bad. That is my conjecture though. They may feel like you need to pay them $4K to get a proper collada export with Max.
01/20/2013 (2:36 pm)
The biggest problem I have found with the T3D importer is the ability of the modeling program I am using to properly export a good DAE. Is it me or does anyone not realize that T3D does not import 3DS files? T3D imports DAE files. If you can get an object as sophisticated as the Player in game that should be enough. Or am I really missing something here?BTW, if it helps check out Blender's import. I have successfully imported a T3D DAE player model (the KPBot) complete with animations, texture mapping, etc to where the model looks exactly like it is supposed to look in game. This did not work in 2.61 of Blender, but now works in 2.65a. This tells me that at least Blender has fixed a lot of their Collada issues. Blender may import light wave and export a proper DAE. Give that a try.
This is why FBX is not supported in Blender:
blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?241595-Blender-FBX-Import
There may be similar issues with using the FBX SDK in T3D. It is a proprietary format. T3D is completely Open Source. It would be a bad idea to tack on a proprietary format library when Collada is supposed to be the interchange format. It may not even be legal due to licensing.
BTW, I think there is lack luster motivation of proprietary vendors to properly support Collada. Especially Autodesk whose business strategy is "vendor lock in". They want you to be stuck using a proprietary format. It is also in their interest (at least from their POV) to dissuade you from using open formats. So they don't support it properly and make it look bad. That is my conjecture though. They may feel like you need to pay them $4K to get a proper collada export with Max.
#8
My purchase of EM may very well solve my problem but it won't solve the over-all problem.
T3D suffers in comparison to other engines, even while the majority of the community loves it, including me.
While GarageGames spent years working on different flavors of the engine for various platforms, they always maintained that Dynamix Three Space will be the art pipeline end result.
Eventually Collada was chosen to add popularity to the engine. It made it easier for the masses of people to get their Art into the engine and the community loves it. It lets the new user get their art into the engine, usually without too much trouble. I would imagine that the boost of sales was favorable.
Now the engine could use FBX import as well. It opens the doors for the world to try out their variety of Software to get their Art work into the engine... like Collada did.
My single purchase of EM will not solve the problem for everyone that chooses to use Torque.
FBX Import can help all those MIT license users to really get an appreciation for the engine.
@Jimmy, The link to Softimage was an example of what the FBX Importer can do. I was looking for a technical white paper but I found the softimage FBX page first and used that to show what the importer is (partially) capable of.
I don't hate Collada, I like Collada even though my software doesn't export it very well. It is a great format for many things.
01/20/2013 (2:46 pm)
Let's look at this from a broader spectrum.My purchase of EM may very well solve my problem but it won't solve the over-all problem.
T3D suffers in comparison to other engines, even while the majority of the community loves it, including me.
While GarageGames spent years working on different flavors of the engine for various platforms, they always maintained that Dynamix Three Space will be the art pipeline end result.
Eventually Collada was chosen to add popularity to the engine. It made it easier for the masses of people to get their Art into the engine and the community loves it. It lets the new user get their art into the engine, usually without too much trouble. I would imagine that the boost of sales was favorable.
Now the engine could use FBX import as well. It opens the doors for the world to try out their variety of Software to get their Art work into the engine... like Collada did.
My single purchase of EM will not solve the problem for everyone that chooses to use Torque.
FBX Import can help all those MIT license users to really get an appreciation for the engine.
@Jimmy, The link to Softimage was an example of what the FBX Importer can do. I was looking for a technical white paper but I found the softimage FBX page first and used that to show what the importer is (partially) capable of.
I don't hate Collada, I like Collada even though my software doesn't export it very well. It is a great format for many things.
#9
Now, I just took a quick look at their FBX SDK page. One thing I am impressed about is a Python module for the SDK. If there is a decent Collada module it would be fairly simplistic to make a converter so people could use FBX now.
As for adding an FBX import that would be great AS LONG AS Collada stays and is supported in future incarnations of T3D. At this point my art pipeline is Collada. Now that Blender is now finally on board with proper support it makes the tools really cheap.
Edit:
area.autodesk.com/forum/autodesk-fbx/fbx-sdk/about-fbx-sdk-license/
It looks like Autodesk is only looking for an attribution license. However, does this mean I have to add an attribution in game? What if I don't even use the importer? Maybe it can be a in a separate file.
01/20/2013 (3:13 pm)
My only issue is I don't trust Autodesk. Don't get me wrong, I love and have used Autocad for engineering work. I just don't trust their business model.Now, I just took a quick look at their FBX SDK page. One thing I am impressed about is a Python module for the SDK. If there is a decent Collada module it would be fairly simplistic to make a converter so people could use FBX now.
As for adding an FBX import that would be great AS LONG AS Collada stays and is supported in future incarnations of T3D. At this point my art pipeline is Collada. Now that Blender is now finally on board with proper support it makes the tools really cheap.
Edit:
area.autodesk.com/forum/autodesk-fbx/fbx-sdk/about-fbx-sdk-license/
It looks like Autodesk is only looking for an attribution license. However, does this mean I have to add an attribution in game? What if I don't even use the importer? Maybe it can be a in a separate file.
#10
01/20/2013 (3:24 pm)
You know, Blender does not have an import for FBX, but it does have an export. So maybe I am giving Autodesk the short end of the stick. I also read that most major modeling programs support FBX output. So maybe there wont' be any proprietary format issues after all.
#11
You export your DAE to Blender then export again as DAE?
That works for you in Blender 2.65a now?
01/20/2013 (3:26 pm)
@FrankYou export your DAE to Blender then export again as DAE?
That works for you in Blender 2.65a now?
#12
No, I just was able to import a player dae created in Max and it all worked. I use Blender for my models. I still need to check on how well Blender does with exporting with modifiers. I had issues in 2.61, but I also had issues with importing in 2.61. In 2.61 without modifies it works fine. With modifiers it can hose things in 2.61.
01/20/2013 (3:30 pm)
@Scott,No, I just was able to import a player dae created in Max and it all worked. I use Blender for my models. I still need to check on how well Blender does with exporting with modifiers. I had issues in 2.61, but I also had issues with importing in 2.61. In 2.61 without modifies it works fine. With modifiers it can hose things in 2.61.
#13
I'd agree with Frank that I see no reason to not include FBX import as an option, but it shouldn't replace collada, because in my experience collada works fine.
Is there any chance you can put up that file you were having problems with? I'd like to see if I can get it into the engine via collada, or what the issue might be.
01/21/2013 (4:18 am)
Hm, I can't claim to have had any problems with collada that weren't my fault.I'd agree with Frank that I see no reason to not include FBX import as an option, but it shouldn't replace collada, because in my experience collada works fine.
Is there any chance you can put up that file you were having problems with? I'd like to see if I can get it into the engine via collada, or what the issue might be.
#14
So, I am truly impressed that Autodesk would take these steps. Even if Autodesk's attitude was "not invented here" toward Collada they are filling the void that Collada was intended to fill. Autodesk just got a +1 in my book.
01/21/2013 (8:49 am)
After reading up on the situation it looks like there is so little "proper" support for Collada that artists are choosing other formats. It looks like Autodesk is stepping in with FBX to fill the gap for a well supported format. So they are doing what a good company should do: provide solutions for the needs of the customer. In this case it is a graphics interchange that is well supported. Autodesk is also doing something in addition. They are making it easy to write software to use the format AND providing libraries with liberal licenses without cost to the developer. So, I am truly impressed that Autodesk would take these steps. Even if Autodesk's attitude was "not invented here" toward Collada they are filling the void that Collada was intended to fill. Autodesk just got a +1 in my book.
#15
As Ron pointed out, we have discussed adding FBX support to Torque 3D in our Steering Committee meetings. We think it makes a lot of sense. It would likely be in addition to the current Collada support and follow the same rules from the T3D end.
We have also discussed making the Collada import process more robust. The Collada format spec and general industry support appears to have stalled. I believe there is some renewed interested from Collada's own steering committee, but I haven't checked in on them for a while to see how it is playing out.
So, I think we all agree here that adding FBX import to T3D is a good thing. If someone from the community would like to work on proper FBX import support for T3D that will likely make it happen faster.
- Dave
01/21/2013 (9:15 am)
Greetings!As Ron pointed out, we have discussed adding FBX support to Torque 3D in our Steering Committee meetings. We think it makes a lot of sense. It would likely be in addition to the current Collada support and follow the same rules from the T3D end.
We have also discussed making the Collada import process more robust. The Collada format spec and general industry support appears to have stalled. I believe there is some renewed interested from Collada's own steering committee, but I haven't checked in on them for a while to see how it is playing out.
So, I think we all agree here that adding FBX import to T3D is a good thing. If someone from the community would like to work on proper FBX import support for T3D that will likely make it happen faster.
- Dave
#16
Ron
01/21/2013 (10:20 am)
The Autodesk propriety issue might prove problematic, I will do some more digging into the SDK and the license and see what is what. (a quick glance through it does not look good though)Ron
#17
wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:Ton/Autodesk_FBX_EULA
01/21/2013 (11:35 am)
I think I see what you mean!:wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:Ton/Autodesk_FBX_EULA
#18
I'd buy an FBX importer add-on if thats what the EULA really means.
I don't care if it's not open source.
An aside, there are 2 Open Source projects going ( used google for search ). It seems that those projects are meeting some difficult but successful importing. So if the Autodesk FBX SDK isn't a viable option then we could look elsewhere for a solution.
@Jeff let me find a good place to upload the files. I'd be very greatful for help to get the animation working correctly with Collada, while I wait for an FBX solution.
01/21/2013 (11:54 am)
I don't see this as an Issue.I'd buy an FBX importer add-on if thats what the EULA really means.
I don't care if it's not open source.
An aside, there are 2 Open Source projects going ( used google for search ). It seems that those projects are meeting some difficult but successful importing. So if the Autodesk FBX SDK isn't a viable option then we could look elsewhere for a solution.
@Jeff let me find a good place to upload the files. I'd be very greatful for help to get the animation working correctly with Collada, while I wait for an FBX solution.
#19
Torque is MIT based not GPL based. That's torque's strongest feature as you can mix open source code that is compatible with MIT and propitiatory code base with out having to be force to open up your code base.
01/21/2013 (12:52 pm)
I dont see that as an issue either, as FBX has pretty much become a standard in the gaming industry.Torque is MIT based not GPL based. That's torque's strongest feature as you can mix open source code that is compatible with MIT and propitiatory code base with out having to be force to open up your code base.
#20
I think this issue runs much deeper than Torque licensing. First issue is GG cannot distribute the SDK (any part of it, that may include header files).
Other issues are more sticky points in Autodesk's licensing. It might require a lawyer to decipher. This is not really a GPL issue. I think GPL just compounds the issues.
01/21/2013 (1:01 pm)
@All,I think this issue runs much deeper than Torque licensing. First issue is GG cannot distribute the SDK (any part of it, that may include header files).
Other issues are more sticky points in Autodesk's licensing. It might require a lawyer to decipher. This is not really a GPL issue. I think GPL just compounds the issues.
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