The Skinner box, and why so many game designers take the easy path.
by Kyrah Abattoir · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 09/20/2011 (11:23 am) · 10 replies
I found this video the other day i thought it was a great example of what "not" to do to make a game.
For some reasons i'm the kind of person who has a very small tolerance for this technique in games, i might not see it at first but it won't take me more than a few hours to just drop it in frustration.
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box
Thanks to Penny arcade for the video :)
For some reasons i'm the kind of person who has a very small tolerance for this technique in games, i might not see it at first but it won't take me more than a few hours to just drop it in frustration.
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box
Thanks to Penny arcade for the video :)
About the author
3D artist, programmer, game designer, jack of all trades, master of none.
#2
09/20/2011 (2:16 pm)
Thanks for sharing Kyrah Abattoir. 
#3
I think the case for WOW is a good example. For many, including myself, there is a point where there is a feeling of getting caught in leveling or farming trap. However, to their credit, WOW has grown in features to keep many people happy with this product with simple changes and small additions. PvP improved a lot over time, single player quests become more interesting over the years and the profession system has maintained my interest.
I would guess most Facebook games fall into the "Skinner Box" design trap.
Well, there are a lot of hooked people playing these types of games (and spending money).
So, yes I agree with everybody that there is some great food for thought here and I generally agree with the analysis, but I believe "the easy path" is compelling if the audience accepts it. That is the trick and it is not easy to be successful...
09/23/2011 (12:52 pm)
Hmm. Like a lot of these editorial pieces, I see the merit, but also the other side of the analysis. Some of the best games ever made, defined by popularity and ratings, are simple score based games. When the PSP launched, Luminous, a puzzle game, was the highest rated game, but was a simplistic "Tetris"-like game. I think the case for WOW is a good example. For many, including myself, there is a point where there is a feeling of getting caught in leveling or farming trap. However, to their credit, WOW has grown in features to keep many people happy with this product with simple changes and small additions. PvP improved a lot over time, single player quests become more interesting over the years and the profession system has maintained my interest.
I would guess most Facebook games fall into the "Skinner Box" design trap.
Well, there are a lot of hooked people playing these types of games (and spending money).
So, yes I agree with everybody that there is some great food for thought here and I generally agree with the analysis, but I believe "the easy path" is compelling if the audience accepts it. That is the trick and it is not easy to be successful...
#4
I agree with Dexter Chow with Wow being a good example. When you look at the complexity of the many different states that a player could be in during their time playing wow, and then all the potential states they could go into to, designing a system that rewards players consistently over time taking into account these states is nothing short of mind boggling.
I find that the when the Skinner Box is used poorly, is when it isn't considered a core part of the gameplay, but rather a tacked on addition. Think back a few years ago when action RPGs started to become popular, I can almost guarantee that most generic action titles at the time had something to do with the game including character upgrades or RPG on the back of the box.
09/23/2011 (6:51 pm)
Ah good old Extra Credits, I highly recommend you guys watch the rest of their videos. They cover some really interesting topics, and they are great for sparking discussion regarding game design and the games industry in general.I agree with Dexter Chow with Wow being a good example. When you look at the complexity of the many different states that a player could be in during their time playing wow, and then all the potential states they could go into to, designing a system that rewards players consistently over time taking into account these states is nothing short of mind boggling.
I find that the when the Skinner Box is used poorly, is when it isn't considered a core part of the gameplay, but rather a tacked on addition. Think back a few years ago when action RPGs started to become popular, I can almost guarantee that most generic action titles at the time had something to do with the game including character upgrades or RPG on the back of the box.
#5
Games should focus on engaging story rather than rewarding the player every level gain.
09/26/2011 (10:01 am)
Most of the time this is used in MMOs. When the game play is monotonous and basically mouse clicks its not fun. Fighting Games usually this issue is a moot point. Games should focus on engaging story rather than rewarding the player every level gain.
#6
Also off-topic: get back to irc sometimes Kyrah.
09/27/2011 (12:01 pm)
I so agree with this, since I've realized this, I haven't played any MMORPG's, as most of them are just plain grinding with rewards now and then. Nowadays even shooters fall in this, getting experience from kills and unlocking new weapons etc. Big no-no for me.Also off-topic: get back to irc sometimes Kyrah.
#7
09/27/2011 (1:25 pm)
@Tuomas: I know, but i'm not that good with realtime.
#8
09/28/2011 (1:44 am)
How can someone be 'bad' at realtime chat?
#9
09/28/2011 (1:59 am)
I'm usually not able to answer in a very intelligent and articulate manner "on the spot", i tend to need some time to let it settle. 
#10
09/30/2011 (12:39 pm)
A good article on "skinnerian gameplay": http://www.bogost.com/blog/cow_clicker_1.shtml 
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