Am i missing some obvious place with documentation?
by GrizzLy · in Torque 3D Beginner · 03/17/2011 (9:24 am) · 18 replies
I am kind of confused because i cant find documentation and i recently started to think that it maybe does not exist.
Is there some place with documentation which explains how stuff works, how to use it.
I have found several tutorials and there is also official documentation.
I know about docs.garagegames.com/torque-3d/official
And i know about torquescript API reference.
What i want is something similar to www.panda3d.org/manual/index.php/Main_Page
Is there some place with documentation which explains how stuff works, how to use it.
I have found several tutorials and there is also official documentation.
I know about docs.garagegames.com/torque-3d/official
And i know about torquescript API reference.
What i want is something similar to www.panda3d.org/manual/index.php/Main_Page
About the author
#2
04/06/2011 (1:17 pm)
We are working on it. New and improved documentation is a high priority for the new GarageGames. Stay tuned.
#3
I looked into torque some time ago, and docs status was "its being worked on".
Currently, my team is still unsure about which engine to use (we dont intend to make only one game), and biggest concert if we go with torque is lack of proper documentation.
I believe that its very bad for skilled startup game dev team to rely on community for all explanation, there should be some central documentation source which should answer 95% of question about engine currently on forums.
Also if you are interested, i am willing to help (volunteer) in testing(by trying to learn torque) documentation, i dont have almost any idea about how torque works or how to use it.
I could help with asking questions and you would update documentation instead of answering those questions.
04/06/2011 (1:24 pm)
Sorry, i dont want to be rude or anything, but how will that docs look, how much information, types of information...I looked into torque some time ago, and docs status was "its being worked on".
Currently, my team is still unsure about which engine to use (we dont intend to make only one game), and biggest concert if we go with torque is lack of proper documentation.
I believe that its very bad for skilled startup game dev team to rely on community for all explanation, there should be some central documentation source which should answer 95% of question about engine currently on forums.
Also if you are interested, i am willing to help (volunteer) in testing(by trying to learn torque) documentation, i dont have almost any idea about how torque works or how to use it.
I could help with asking questions and you would update documentation instead of answering those questions.
#4
Torque 3D 1.1 Final is in the pipeline. When its released there will be a first pass on revised documentation. Even then, we won't be done with the docs but it will be a big step forward. That would be a great time to get your feedback - especially as a new user. We want to make the docs better for getting people up to speed more quickly. Your feedback would be very very much appreciated.
04/06/2011 (2:28 pm)
Not rude at all. We were customers before we bought GarageGames so I completely understand where you are coming from. Now that we are owners, I can tell you that there is nothing more that past and present employees want than improved documentation. Its our job to make sure the budget and resources are in place to allow that to happen. So regardless of what has been said in the past, I feel comfortable saying "we are working on it" now.Torque 3D 1.1 Final is in the pipeline. When its released there will be a first pass on revised documentation. Even then, we won't be done with the docs but it will be a big step forward. That would be a great time to get your feedback - especially as a new user. We want to make the docs better for getting people up to speed more quickly. Your feedback would be very very much appreciated.
#5
Also i noticed that you posted something on user-controlled wiki topic (dont know where that idea came from, dont have access to that section too), and generally that is how panda3d manual was made, under the core its just a wiki, and users contributed to it.
I am interested in torque, because its engine with lots of potential, but lack of real documentation is something that pushes me away every time.
04/06/2011 (3:10 pm)
Ok, so 1.1 is in pipeline (does that mean building and packaging, or it means that its being worked on?).Also i noticed that you posted something on user-controlled wiki topic (dont know where that idea came from, dont have access to that section too), and generally that is how panda3d manual was made, under the core its just a wiki, and users contributed to it.
I am interested in torque, because its engine with lots of potential, but lack of real documentation is something that pushes me away every time.
#6
Have you expanded and looked at the docs online? (you posted a link to it). Each link on the left has some pretty good info attached about each part. If you are looking at learning torque script, I've found the books by Ken Finney and Edward Maurina to be invaluable tools.
04/06/2011 (3:18 pm)
Quote:Ok, so 1.1 is in pipeline (does that mean building and packaging, or it means that its being worked on?).They are in the bug squashing phase.
Have you expanded and looked at the docs online? (you posted a link to it). Each link on the left has some pretty good info attached about each part. If you are looking at learning torque script, I've found the books by Ken Finney and Edward Maurina to be invaluable tools.
#7
Meantime, its worth mentioning that we did drop the price to $99 (includes full source code) so if you have been on the fence in the past, NOW would not be a bad time to grab T3D 1.1 beta 3 to get a head start. You'd be taking a leap of faith that the documentation will improve, but I'm confident it will (especially if you and those like you are willing to volunteer to help out - we will be listening closely to feedback from the community).
Regarding the wiki... right now the focus is on creating our own docs. Once we are satisfied we've done that we will take another look at breathing life back into TDN.
04/06/2011 (5:40 pm)
@ GrizzLy: I don't want to give away a ship date for T3D 1.1 - I think the guys working on it would hang me in effigy if I did. But I think its safe to say that you should check back on our home page over the next month or so. There will likely be a blog update that will give you a ship date. That would be a good time to evaluate. Meantime, its worth mentioning that we did drop the price to $99 (includes full source code) so if you have been on the fence in the past, NOW would not be a bad time to grab T3D 1.1 beta 3 to get a head start. You'd be taking a leap of faith that the documentation will improve, but I'm confident it will (especially if you and those like you are willing to volunteer to help out - we will be listening closely to feedback from the community).
Regarding the wiki... right now the focus is on creating our own docs. Once we are satisfied we've done that we will take another look at breathing life back into TDN.
#8
So 1.1 final will not be released in April?
04/07/2011 (3:12 am)
>But I think its safe to say that you should check back on our home page over the next month or so.So 1.1 final will not be released in April?
#9
Something that is important to understand is that what you consider "proper" documentation is not the same as what others consider "proper" documentation.
You posted links to a couple hundred pages of documentation which I am sure other users thought were the "proper" documentation that had to be there for the product to be usable.
There is always room for improvement in documentation and there is always a limited amount of resources to be applied to adding to the docs. If a particular document is important to you it is really good to be very specific about what you are wanting. The more detailed you are in your request, the easier it will be for GarageGames to prioritize towards it (I wouldn't consider linking all of the docs for another engine to be very specific).
05/05/2011 (1:29 pm)
Quote:lack of proper documentation
Something that is important to understand is that what you consider "proper" documentation is not the same as what others consider "proper" documentation.
You posted links to a couple hundred pages of documentation which I am sure other users thought were the "proper" documentation that had to be there for the product to be usable.
There is always room for improvement in documentation and there is always a limited amount of resources to be applied to adding to the docs. If a particular document is important to you it is really good to be very specific about what you are wanting. The more detailed you are in your request, the easier it will be for GarageGames to prioritize towards it (I wouldn't consider linking all of the docs for another engine to be very specific).
#10
I posted panda3d as example of good documentation (its not perfect, but i find it much better than current torque docs).
And i think that its bad to rely on improving docs on only specific topics, its not much different than asking things on forum and waiting to get some sort of reply..
For example i made forum topic asking about collision system and received no reply. I do not know if that is because i did not buy engine, or because i did not write post correctly (give enough good information).
And collision system is only one part of engine that i need..
05/09/2011 (12:20 am)
So, its bad idea to improve documentation as a whole?I posted panda3d as example of good documentation (its not perfect, but i find it much better than current torque docs).
And i think that its bad to rely on improving docs on only specific topics, its not much different than asking things on forum and waiting to get some sort of reply..
For example i made forum topic asking about collision system and received no reply. I do not know if that is because i did not buy engine, or because i did not write post correctly (give enough good information).
And collision system is only one part of engine that i need..
#11
"so, its bad idea to improve documentation as a whole?
not at all. we are working on it internally and we are interviewing technical writers. Won't happen overnight, but it will happen.
Post a link to your forum post. I'll make sure someone replies.
05/10/2011 (12:13 pm)
@ GrissLy: "so, its bad idea to improve documentation as a whole?
not at all. we are working on it internally and we are interviewing technical writers. Won't happen overnight, but it will happen.
Post a link to your forum post. I'll make sure someone replies.
#12
05/10/2011 (8:50 pm)
technical writers... yuck... 
#13
05/11/2011 (6:06 am)
@Caylo - You know that's what I am, right? =)
#14
05/11/2011 (7:08 am)
@ Caylo, well we hired a poet, but it didn't work out. He kept trying to change our terms and definitions to make them rhyme. 
#15
05/11/2011 (9:03 am)
poets... yuck... 
#16
I actually remove the docs from my installs at each release. Find-in-Files FTW!
05/11/2011 (9:35 am)
I could easily whip up some Mockumentation ;)I actually remove the docs from my installs at each release. Find-in-Files FTW!
#17
This resource should be added to the documentation sticky thread.
05/31/2011 (8:40 pm)
Did you try the downloadable CHM.This resource should be added to the documentation sticky thread.
#18
And to address the original post, everything is going to be consolidated into one place - call it a "Support Hub" for Torque 3D. No more hunting through our site wondering if you've missed something. T3D will get this treatment first, then the rest of our products.
Stay tuned, the new docs and the T3D support hub should go live soon - along with a new release of T3D.
06/02/2011 (12:05 pm)
@ Sean, new docs, including an online version of the downloadable CHM will be available soooooooon.And to address the original post, everything is going to be consolidated into one place - call it a "Support Hub" for Torque 3D. No more hunting through our site wondering if you've missed something. T3D will get this treatment first, then the rest of our products.
Stay tuned, the new docs and the T3D support hub should go live soon - along with a new release of T3D.
Torque Owner Andy S.
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