Torque Power Tools

#1 Hey Joshua,

I would be willing to pay for anything that will help streamlined the content creation process. A lot of my comrades who are going to help me with my first project are all good artist first and programmers never heh :)

But we can understand enough of the code to get by. But one of us. (It's likely going to be me) will have to give up the pen and digital pad to learn the nuts and bolts of the engine.

Churm 'em out man Torque Power Tools heh :0

I paid $40.00 bucks for a map editor because it works for me. (better uh (more heh) if it had been intergated into torque.

#2 Speaking of streamlining the content creation process, I've always been interested in in-game content editors, because using exporters and external apps is such a drag on workflow. I'd like to be able to create and modify scripts, textures, shapes, animations and interiors on-the-fly within Torque. I'd rather have this than a way to edit missions in 3DMax (I'm looking to get off as many upgrade treadmills as possible, especially the pricier ones).

It's an itch I've always wanted to scratch, but am too busy creating an actual game and too disciplined to be sucked into side projects (so I flatter myself :) ).

But if someone else did something like that, I'd pay, just to save all those hours lost to app switching, especially those lost because some minor detail on an interior or shape needs to be changed. And WYSIWYG editing would be worth it's weight in gold -- no more surprises moving from app through exporter to the game engine.

#3 Some thoughts:

TGEMax: 3dsmax plugin for editing levels. Layout lights/dts/dif with animation splines, waypoints, etc. SimObject fields embedded in the dockable MAX GUI... Interoperates with the realtime editor. Power level editing in a real 3d layout/animation program.

TGESeasons: Dynamically changing seasons for your game.

TGEWeather: A detailed weather system, sunny to hurricanes.

TGETremor: A Director(tm) extra to support playing TGE games, in browsers, via Shockwave(tm). Would also allow the mixing of TGE and Director functionality, driving TGE with Lingo and Director with TorqueScript. Cool stuff.

TGERad2: Support special lighting (alarms, etc), special editing considerations (to optimize calculation times), predefined materials, etc

TGEDayNight2: A much better interface to the system, editor/network aware, cleanups, etc. Yes, I am aware of the resource Chris submitted.

TGEPython2: TGEPython + some goodies, with all the .cs rewritten to Python, TGE specific support for generators, etc.

TGELua: A Lua binding to TGE.

More to come.

-J

#4 Brad, I doubt I can compete with 3dsmax animation/layout... but what if the plugin was network aware to a running server, so your changes were realtime?

The real thing here is that the market is Torque users that use 3dsmax. That is a pretty small market I fear.

-J

#5 TGESeasons: Dynamically changing seasons for your game.

TGEWeather: A detailed weather system, sunny to hurricanes.
TGEDayNight2: A much better interface to the system, editor/network aware, cleanups, etc. Yes, I am aware of the resource Chris submitted.

we are developing those things for our game, but if u can make something strong and less intrusive in the torque engine (we use torque only as a renderer library) we will pay for them.

#6 Same here - if you pack up stuff that is stable, usable and supported, then I would be willing to pay too.

In the end it comes down to the amount of $$$ you ask for. $100? Forget it. $30-40 Yep.

Even if resources are accesible here for free, keeping them up to date and running on latest CVS etc. is a task in itself. Manuals, documentation etc is also usually needed.

#7 I'd be willing to pay for the samethings Brad mentioned. Alot of people do use 3dsMax but its very pricey and I have a feeling alot of them have gotten it from one of the thousands of warez sites. I'd rather stay legal.

#8 TGETremor !!!! I can't seem to get the feel of the Torque scripts... I'm fluent in Lingo tough, wrote some games in it already ;)
But this must be a joke? How will you do that??

#9 I would pay for things like the Day/night if they worked with Directx also :)

#10 @Ward: I'll keep quiet about Shockwave for right now, suffice to say it is no joke.

I could make a better editor, faster using 3dsmax. I have an excellent knowledge of the 3dsmax plugin SDK. It sure would be nice if gmax was an option. I don't think it is though. Blender could possibly work (I think it is very weird, haven't looked at the SDK at all) ... a custom editor using wxPython would be cross platform and could be very cool... Blender and Quark both use Python, uh huh.

I'm glad to see some interest in the other nuggets...

I'll look into this stuff when I get back from a short road trip. Keep on rocking in the free world.

-J

#11 I would "donate" to the total Python conversion for sure.

TorqueScript is a double edged sword, for my project just powerful enought to make doing what I want to do a complete PITA :(

Especially if all the major classes were made Python scriptable and made Torque more of a true Engine/Framework.

The Max stuff has ZERO interest to me . . .

#12 I am putting the main thrust of my efforts into an integrated editor.

I am using Torque as a python module (PyTorque not TGEPython for those keeping track) with wxPython . Right now, I am getting Torque and wxPython's main loops sorted out while adding support for rendering Torque to a wxGLCanvas instance. This will be very cool, Torque will be able to render anywhere a wxGLCanvas can... including wxPanels.. stick it in a wxNotebook :) I'll post some screenies when I have this all impressive with multiple dockable views, etc.

If you know your way around Python and Swig, PyTorque is ready for primetime. It's powerful enough that I am using it for a major application. TGEPython on the other hand can steer Torque quite well, though I agree the .cs should be rewritten to Python in this case. TGEPython (embedded Python for Torque) could also use some additional finesse.

The editor will support .cs at the quality level of Tribal IDE (though it won't be written in Delphi), this includes breakpoints, project view, etc ... I am also very keen on having excellent Python support. One feature I want to see is being able to select an object, and hit a button to acquire it's script sources for editing. This would be very slick.

A design goal is to support vanilla Torque, these features have precedence.

-J

#13 Hmmm, is this a built-in editor or standalone? I was thinking about putting an real-time editor into the script engine itself so you can have debugging, context sensitive help, etc. all inside Torque rather than as a separate piece. Maybe we should get together on IRC and chat.

#14 How about a decent MS3D Exporter :(

#15 I agree with the last post, or; better still one further up wanting control of all Torque objects taken out of the control of 3rd party programs and exporters....thanks, just my humble opinion

#16 I'd be willing to pay for that pack if it came with an editor like "TGEWorkstation."

#17 Complex and feature packed exporters for all modeling/animation programs is futile.

The idea would be to export the base mesh(s) + bone animation from a scene... in any program... and then have a standalone sequencing tool/material editor that was used. Automatic generation of LOD levels (procedural) under artist control would also be very handy.

This gives a common place to add functionality, as well as standard methodology.

I am looking into something on this front. Of course, a public forum means I can't blurt everything out.

-J

#18 I don't think it's necessary to recreate Max or a similar package as an in-game editor.

Using external tools is slow and frustrating, especially combined with exporters and version lag (the exporters are frequently behind the latest version of the tool), and the fact that WYS in the tool isn't always WYG in the game engine (sometimes it just doesn't look the same, and sometimes the export produces the wrong result). It's especially frustrating when making a round trip just to nudge a simple detail. Throw in the price point for the average 3D package, especially in relation to Torque's price point. It feels like paying a lot of money to be continuously frustrated -- and that money goes to Autodesk, not GG.

Another thing motivating my desire for in-game tools is that I've never really liked the interaction paradigm of 3D tools. It feels like the user is working for the application rather than the application working for the user (but I'm a programmer, not a modeler, so I touch these tools only when I need some hideous programmer art -- not to say I need it to be hideous, it just inevitably turns out that way -- so maybe I don't use these tools enough to be conversant in their paradigms). This does make it more an itch I'd like to scratch rather than a general suggestion as a project, especially since the potential market is limited. Maybe everyone else is happy with the way Max works.

The Max map utility would be useful because it would simplify the Torque tools solution by eliminating at least one other external application + exporter, and therefore drive down the TCO of the Torque tool solution (even though QuArK is free, I say TCO because it costs time to learn and use two different tools, and maintain two separate exporters).

Workflow acceleration from IGEs would be a tangible benefit for commercial projects more than indies or hobbyists, since there is a more of a real dollar value attached to the hours saved (and as graphics become increasingly sophisticated, these are a bigger proportion of game development expenses). If the IGE was network aware it would also create a virtual whiteboard for 3D modeling and level design, another idea I find intriguing (i.e. other team members could visit a work in progress by logging on to that designer's server, or multiple team members could develop simultaneously on the virtual whiteboard; someone could drop in on your whiteboard and drop off a new building design or set of shapes to be placed in the mission, etc. -- plus, if team members disagree on some point, they can resolve their differences by a (virtual) deathmatch :) ).

Anyway, these are just crazy musings on the subject since it was brought up, and not meant to suggest any direction to your work, Joshua, which looks great so far. Especially since the commercial potential of IGE tools like I'm suggesting isn't immediately clear to me.