N-Gage...Is This Something to Look at?
by Jerane Alleyne · in General Discussion · 06/18/2003 (4:42 pm) · 13 replies
While we're still working on our first game, I have been looking at that N-Gage portable unit to see if it might be a promising product, in part to see if it might be a good potential platform to develop games on. They seem to have a good deal of support, and I do believe I saw Red Faction demoed on it (I know it was a portable version, I think that was on N-Gage), not looking too bad.
I was wonder if any of you guys had opinions on this new unit, possibilities on getting into it while its still on the ground and applications for indie game development, and its chances against the competition.
I'm gonna keep checking it out in the mean time ;)
Thanks
I was wonder if any of you guys had opinions on this new unit, possibilities on getting into it while its still on the ground and applications for indie game development, and its chances against the competition.
I'm gonna keep checking it out in the mean time ;)
Thanks
#2
06/18/2003 (5:35 pm)
I think its games are regulated just like GBA is, meaning you would need nokia's say in if you get to publish at all. I'm not 100% sure on that though.
#3
06/18/2003 (5:44 pm)
Yeah, seems that way. It looks like they give you a free SDK to make a demo for them if you aren't one of their licenced developers. I guess thats a given with any commercial platform.
#4
N-Gage is going to need all the help it can get, and the competition is a lot smaller than on the GBA.
Portables are really awesome in that you don't have to worry a lot about content. The lower the spec on the machine, the more you can focus on basic gameplay. If they give out a free SDK might as well try to make an awesome demo.
Getting into any console as a developer is hard. Free SDK is better than what everybody else offers by far.
06/19/2003 (1:26 am)
Free SDK. Sounds nice. No free SDK for the GBA.N-Gage is going to need all the help it can get, and the competition is a lot smaller than on the GBA.
Portables are really awesome in that you don't have to worry a lot about content. The lower the spec on the machine, the more you can focus on basic gameplay. If they give out a free SDK might as well try to make an awesome demo.
Getting into any console as a developer is hard. Free SDK is better than what everybody else offers by far.
#5
My main reson for saying no up above is that I really dont think the N-Gage is going to be a big sucess. The screen looks kinda small, you have to take out the battery in order to change games, it wont have the big game titles like mario and sonic (like the GBA has), it looks embarrasing to use as a cell phone (just imagine putting a GBA up to your ear and talking into it), but most of all I hear its like $300 dollars, making it more expensive than a gamecube and gameboy SP combined! or more than 4 regular GBA's, not to mention that this things screen is going to get scratched to hell if you ever actualy try and put it in your pocket. All this and Nokias crappy marketing attempts (where they actualy insulted their target demographic by saying that GBA's were for 10 year olds) just makes me think that nobody's actualy going to buy these things, at least not in any quantity that would make it worth developing for.
If your interested in this thing you might want to look into PDA development, similar specs, and people already own them (and you wont have to worry about the company who makes it saying you cant release your game)
just my opinion though
oh, and the GBA SDK does cost money, but you really dont need it in order to make games for the GBA
06/19/2003 (1:50 am)
I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure the N-Gage just uses JDK and Brew like all the other cell phones (not its own special SDK). I heard brew costs something but JDK should be free. I believe I saw a screenshot of red faction being run on the N-Gage in the last game developer, or maybe it was game state. However I dont really see how you could get very good 3d out of a 100mhz arm processor, but anyway, I'm pretty sure theres no standard 3d api's out for this thing so you'd be looking at strictly 2d work (not that thats a bad thing). My main reson for saying no up above is that I really dont think the N-Gage is going to be a big sucess. The screen looks kinda small, you have to take out the battery in order to change games, it wont have the big game titles like mario and sonic (like the GBA has), it looks embarrasing to use as a cell phone (just imagine putting a GBA up to your ear and talking into it), but most of all I hear its like $300 dollars, making it more expensive than a gamecube and gameboy SP combined! or more than 4 regular GBA's, not to mention that this things screen is going to get scratched to hell if you ever actualy try and put it in your pocket. All this and Nokias crappy marketing attempts (where they actualy insulted their target demographic by saying that GBA's were for 10 year olds) just makes me think that nobody's actualy going to buy these things, at least not in any quantity that would make it worth developing for.
If your interested in this thing you might want to look into PDA development, similar specs, and people already own them (and you wont have to worry about the company who makes it saying you cant release your game)
just my opinion though
oh, and the GBA SDK does cost money, but you really dont need it in order to make games for the GBA
#6
06/19/2003 (2:01 am)
Actually it already has Sonic made by Sega for launch. Also it is viable as a 3d system believe it or not I saw Quake running on a GBA (GBA has 16.78mhz CPU with 96k video ram, 32k internal ram, and 256 external ram) Will the 3d games be worth playing.. thats a different story. Nokia is trying to steal the older crowd from nintendo, they even called the GBA a kids toy. If the NGage will do good is still to be seen. Penny Arcade described the ngage as "A s***ty phone with an even s***ier game system." I believe your correct on it using J2ME. I dont know what it uses for C++ development but BREW is a good guess since its using a phone OS. I have been thinking about putting Jack the Uni-Psychle on this system but I'm gonna contact Nokia first and see what they think.
#7
06/19/2003 (2:26 am)
Oh wow, I didnt realise sega made a sonic for them, thanks for correcting me
#8
There is a 3d api for the tapwave.
06/19/2003 (8:16 pm)
I think this one looks more promising than the nokia: http://www.tapwave.com/developers/There is a 3d api for the tapwave.
#9
# Symbian OS (Nokia N-Gage®, Sony Ericsson P800, ...)
# Palm OS (Tapwave "Helix")
# Microsoft Windows® CE.NET (AlphaCell M5)
# Microsoft Smartphone (Orange SPV)
# Microsoft Pocket PC
# Mobile Linux (Sharp Zaurus)
Here is a link to X-Forge, it has some screenshots of games: www.fathammer.com/x-forge/index.shtml
Sega is using X-Forge for some of their games for the N-Gage (Like Super Monkey Ball and Virtual Tennis) Here is are pics of "Sonic N" on the N-Gage - www.wirelessgamingreview.com/gamedir/game-1307&page=IMAGES
It is also what THQ used to put red faction on N-Gage.
The "Helix" Tapwave does seem like it might be cool. Its made by Palm people and they know handhelds.
I want to put Jack on the N-Gage but Nokia requires you to have 10 people in your company. Even though we created a critically acclaimed game for Pocket PC and Zaurus with 2 people. :(
06/19/2003 (8:43 pm)
That uses fathammer's X-Forge engine (OEM version) for 3d. X-Forge (Developer Version) also works on:# Symbian OS (Nokia N-Gage®, Sony Ericsson P800, ...)
# Palm OS (Tapwave "Helix")
# Microsoft Windows® CE.NET (AlphaCell M5)
# Microsoft Smartphone (Orange SPV)
# Microsoft Pocket PC
# Mobile Linux (Sharp Zaurus)
Here is a link to X-Forge, it has some screenshots of games: www.fathammer.com/x-forge/index.shtml
Sega is using X-Forge for some of their games for the N-Gage (Like Super Monkey Ball and Virtual Tennis) Here is are pics of "Sonic N" on the N-Gage - www.wirelessgamingreview.com/gamedir/game-1307&page=IMAGES
It is also what THQ used to put red faction on N-Gage.
The "Helix" Tapwave does seem like it might be cool. Its made by Palm people and they know handhelds.
I want to put Jack on the N-Gage but Nokia requires you to have 10 people in your company. Even though we created a critically acclaimed game for Pocket PC and Zaurus with 2 people. :(
#10
What kind of a stupid rule is that! 8^) I picture a boardroom with a bunch of suits sitting around hashing out exactly how many people you must have in your company. What a waste of breathable air.
06/20/2003 (5:20 pm)
"Nokia requires you to have 10 people in your company. "What kind of a stupid rule is that! 8^) I picture a boardroom with a bunch of suits sitting around hashing out exactly how many people you must have in your company. What a waste of breathable air.
#11
I semi-understand the logic, they have limited support resources in the run up to launch and just about every series 60 developer is interested in it - better to focus on a smaller dedicated pool of developers to ensure a high quality series of games on launch (im not saying its fair or only big companies make good games just i think its their logic). On the other hand it could be appeasing the giants so we will see a flood of the usual big franchise games on launch to lure them onto it.
In my opinion the NGage will be fairly successful, purely because of its ability to download midlets - infusio have racked up 7,000,000 downloads of mobile games alone. It inherits a massive amount of games and apps even before its launch and moreover anyone can download WTK and make something for it - I think it will ship with MIDp2 which has emphasis on networking and 3D performance as well.
The reason I say 'fairly successful' is an 18+ yr isnt gonna take out an ngage and play it openly in public and its too expensive for sub-17s - it must achieve the "acceptably cool brand" level which im not sure Nokia know how to do.
Regarding the price, it will be interesting to see how much the operators subsidise it. I envisage people buying the i.e "Vodafone NGage Box" which will give them the sim card and access to the game and content portfolio of Vodafone which makes money each time the user buys a game which in turn could generate network usage and more revenue so it could be quite a substantial drop in price to what is being posted on the net at the moment.
07/19/2003 (11:29 am)
You dont need the ngage sdk really, its a symbian 6.1 device with additional apis, theres no reason why you cant use the free symbian sdks for the 3650 / 7650 + VC6 or whatever to create your game and port it if its proves a hit, besides which you can make a game that is accessible to alot more people initally. It wont use brew or any other 3rd party technology i.e Mophun.I semi-understand the logic, they have limited support resources in the run up to launch and just about every series 60 developer is interested in it - better to focus on a smaller dedicated pool of developers to ensure a high quality series of games on launch (im not saying its fair or only big companies make good games just i think its their logic). On the other hand it could be appeasing the giants so we will see a flood of the usual big franchise games on launch to lure them onto it.
In my opinion the NGage will be fairly successful, purely because of its ability to download midlets - infusio have racked up 7,000,000 downloads of mobile games alone. It inherits a massive amount of games and apps even before its launch and moreover anyone can download WTK and make something for it - I think it will ship with MIDp2 which has emphasis on networking and 3D performance as well.
The reason I say 'fairly successful' is an 18+ yr isnt gonna take out an ngage and play it openly in public and its too expensive for sub-17s - it must achieve the "acceptably cool brand" level which im not sure Nokia know how to do.
Regarding the price, it will be interesting to see how much the operators subsidise it. I envisage people buying the i.e "Vodafone NGage Box" which will give them the sim card and access to the game and content portfolio of Vodafone which makes money each time the user buys a game which in turn could generate network usage and more revenue so it could be quite a substantial drop in price to what is being posted on the net at the moment.
#12
If it does emulate the speed, that would be one good reason for using the official SDK.
-Darren.
07/19/2003 (11:41 am)
Would the emulator in the N-Gage SDK be specifically written to emulate the N-Gages CPU speed? I've written some stuff for the Series40 platform, and it seems to run in the emulator at exactly the speed it runs on my Nokia 6100. Still, that could just be chance I suppose...If it does emulate the speed, that would be one good reason for using the official SDK.
-Darren.
#13
07/19/2003 (9:08 pm)
I think the 3650, 7650 and ngage all share the same arm9 104 mhz cpu - though given a 7650 outperforms just about any other phone its not much to go by. 
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