Plan for Chris "DiGi" Timberlake
by Chris "DiGi" Timberlake · 10/22/2004 (6:48 pm) · 21 comments
Ok, i know i promised you guys that i would bring some screen-shots of DES. Truth is i've been really busy. Relationship probs, break ups, getting inshape for the military and fufilling 3 full-time jobs for my game, is well hard. Anyways, the reason i'm writing this is a few days ago, i had an idea.
Torque OS
It came to me when i was looking for a Media Center OS, or Media Center Edition of Linux. Then, i remembered that someone on IRC had taken a Linux kernal and Torque, and made Torque the GUI for the kernal. Which got me thinking. If someone can do that with Torque, what can torque not do? Then i also remembered about something the GO-L Computer Corperation used. They used a PCI Chip which turned 4 gigs of ram into a hard-drive. The results where incredible! XP loaded within seconds. Of corse it should, considering it can write data at around what? Take a guess. C'mon you can do it. Around 110 MBPS Under Idle, and 130 MBPS Under Load (no thats not a typo). Most hard-drives do 40 - 60MBPS. So, i gotta ask? All of these combind, what does it lead up to?
It leads up to Torque OS. If built correctly, it could very well be Mac OSX's and XP's killer. Sure itd be tons of work, but i've learned that the pride of your work is alot better then money. I mean really. Think of it, Torque could provide a fully interactive 3D Os, like nothing before. A tool panel (similer too mac's) on the bottom. A list of processes and workspace ontop (Similer to XFCE), and a background thats completely 3d. Ontop of all that, you could design a filesystem like nothing before. Programs would be easier to code them ever before, and youd have more freedom then ever before. Using TorqueScript, these programs could have tons of power, and simlicity. Then ontop of that, you could use Torque to plug into the Kernal, and allow Linux Apps to be used, aswell as other things linux. (Drivers, all that fun stuff). Ontop of all this. Theres a 99.9% probability that using Linux and Torque together, it could go on anything. Xbox2, PS3, heck, hack the phantom box to do it. The sky is the limit. And ontop of that, it would all be 3d. Nothing like before (Sure Sun has a 3D OS, but this could be so much better!) So, really, whatcha guys think about this? I mean sure the idea needs work and polishing, but i think its a winner. I know people have told me to make a .diff editor within Torque, and i have to admit. I was wrong. Torque would be a perfect .dif editor if done right.
So, heres my question to you. What if all the guys who are working with editors within torque. (the scripting source within torque, the person behind the .diff viewer and .map compiler within torque.) What if they all got together and made Torque OS reality? I just thought i'd throw that out within the air. So anyways, think on that for a while guys.
Edit: Formatting
Torque OS
It came to me when i was looking for a Media Center OS, or Media Center Edition of Linux. Then, i remembered that someone on IRC had taken a Linux kernal and Torque, and made Torque the GUI for the kernal. Which got me thinking. If someone can do that with Torque, what can torque not do? Then i also remembered about something the GO-L Computer Corperation used. They used a PCI Chip which turned 4 gigs of ram into a hard-drive. The results where incredible! XP loaded within seconds. Of corse it should, considering it can write data at around what? Take a guess. C'mon you can do it. Around 110 MBPS Under Idle, and 130 MBPS Under Load (no thats not a typo). Most hard-drives do 40 - 60MBPS. So, i gotta ask? All of these combind, what does it lead up to?
It leads up to Torque OS. If built correctly, it could very well be Mac OSX's and XP's killer. Sure itd be tons of work, but i've learned that the pride of your work is alot better then money. I mean really. Think of it, Torque could provide a fully interactive 3D Os, like nothing before. A tool panel (similer too mac's) on the bottom. A list of processes and workspace ontop (Similer to XFCE), and a background thats completely 3d. Ontop of all that, you could design a filesystem like nothing before. Programs would be easier to code them ever before, and youd have more freedom then ever before. Using TorqueScript, these programs could have tons of power, and simlicity. Then ontop of that, you could use Torque to plug into the Kernal, and allow Linux Apps to be used, aswell as other things linux. (Drivers, all that fun stuff). Ontop of all this. Theres a 99.9% probability that using Linux and Torque together, it could go on anything. Xbox2, PS3, heck, hack the phantom box to do it. The sky is the limit. And ontop of that, it would all be 3d. Nothing like before (Sure Sun has a 3D OS, but this could be so much better!) So, really, whatcha guys think about this? I mean sure the idea needs work and polishing, but i think its a winner. I know people have told me to make a .diff editor within Torque, and i have to admit. I was wrong. Torque would be a perfect .dif editor if done right.
So, heres my question to you. What if all the guys who are working with editors within torque. (the scripting source within torque, the person behind the .diff viewer and .map compiler within torque.) What if they all got together and made Torque OS reality? I just thought i'd throw that out within the air. So anyways, think on that for a while guys.
Edit: Formatting
About the author
#2
And I thought about doing something like this in Torque, but then like Eric, I'm no programmer.
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10/23/2004 (12:58 am)
Funny thing. 2 days ago I stumbled upon http://www.opencroquet.org/.And I thought about doing something like this in Torque, but then like Eric, I'm no programmer.
.
#4
10/23/2004 (3:26 am)
Awesome idea... But how would Torque improve on it any? Gotta think that one out. (Not saying it wouldn't, but I mean functionality needs to be planned for it)
#6
10/23/2004 (4:14 am)
Sphere has some pretty nice screenshots. I hate installing the .NET framework, though, and so far have always ended up uninstalling it.
#7
10/23/2004 (4:57 am)
It seems I'm not the only one thats thought of a Torque OS. :-D It would be sweet to have your OS be completely 3D. A TSE OS would be better though, think about bump-mapped text, and other crazy effects.
#8
10/23/2004 (7:21 am)
Torque's scripting and gui system is too ugly and limited to make real applications, you can't beat the power of GTK or any other toolkit to do that. Plus there's nothing 3d that you can do with Torque that you can't do with Xorg and not to mention that you would need Xorg/Xfree86 to run Torque anyway, It's adding a lot of overhead for something that is not meant to be done that way. Torque = games, let the OS people do their job, saying that you could beat XP or OSX is assuming that making an OS is easy, you should go and try it.
#9
He proposes the rest of the OS be linux-based.
I would think Torque or TSE would make a nice basis for a 3D Desktop, but the problems (at least with Windows) would be in getting it to work seamlessly.
And then, as I mentioned above, figuring out a good interface is the key; one of those "why didn't I think of that" obvious types of ideas is needed.
10/23/2004 (7:37 am)
I think using a game engine for a 3D desktop could be a good move. It could theoretically be an OS-within-an-OS, in that some scripting could be done, but that seems like a minor feature. He proposes the rest of the OS be linux-based.
I would think Torque or TSE would make a nice basis for a 3D Desktop, but the problems (at least with Windows) would be in getting it to work seamlessly.
And then, as I mentioned above, figuring out a good interface is the key; one of those "why didn't I think of that" obvious types of ideas is needed.
#10
PS: I'm still waiting for the pictures of your .dif editor that you said we would see in your next plan.
EDIT: Not to mention the obvious flaw that this would have, reason why OS gui's are designed modularly, if Torque crashes you lose the whole OS woo, way to go. If the gnome-panel crashes all the rest keeps running, and I only have 2-3 seconds without the panel while it automatically restarts itself. Here if your task bar has a bug it crashes torque and you lose the whole OS.
10/23/2004 (8:12 am)
I don't see how using Torque for a gui could be a good idea when one of Torque's biggest flaws is the ugly gui system. Using Gtk and X.org you can achieve full flexibility with your gui apps and use any kind of 3d effects you want. Also digi 'suggested' making a filesystem, like if it was one of the easy parts, when it's not and it would be impossible since you are running on top of Linux you would already be using ext2/3, xfs or reiser or something else. Even if you wanted to make your own filesystem you would have to implement it in the linux kernel. Obviously his post was the fever a very misinformed mind with nothing better to do.PS: I'm still waiting for the pictures of your .dif editor that you said we would see in your next plan.
EDIT: Not to mention the obvious flaw that this would have, reason why OS gui's are designed modularly, if Torque crashes you lose the whole OS woo, way to go. If the gnome-panel crashes all the rest keeps running, and I only have 2-3 seconds without the panel while it automatically restarts itself. Here if your task bar has a bug it crashes torque and you lose the whole OS.
#11
And my Windows desktop crashes all the time. lol Granted, XP is a big improvement over ME, but it still happens. :)
10/23/2004 (8:35 am)
Presumedly it would only use small bits of the 2D GUI.And my Windows desktop crashes all the time. lol Granted, XP is a big improvement over ME, but it still happens. :)
#12
10/23/2004 (8:48 am)
But even in windows, if explorer crashes, you lose the taskbar/desktop for a while and then it comes back, no work lost.
#13
Xavior: I never said making an OS was easy, infact i haven't used the term easy once in my paragraph. Also, in no way did i imply (atleast i think i didn't) that it would be easy, it would take work and loads of skill. Reguarding the filesystem, it would be within the Kernal. Linux has its own filesystem in which the Linux Programs are used too. So, i would keep the base Linux filesystem intact, for linux program capatibility. Then, I would have a folder on the root called Torque OS, this is where the torque files, and Win32/Torque programs are stored. The folders in this would be "OS" (Main Torque/OS Files) "Programs" (each Torque/Win32 program would have a seperate folder) "Config" (Where the users documents and config files are stored), and crap i forgot the other few, lemme try an remember them. and Yes, crashing is a bug, but and one that you would have to conquer, maybe desktop saving? I'm not 100% sure how we would fix it.
Dan: If done right people would prob use it over Linux, and Win32. Yes, longhorn has some 3D EFFECTS but its not 3D to the point of Mac OSX (From what i've seen).
Guys, i never said it would be easy. Because frankly, i know its gonna be hard as heck. But i think it would pay off. If we were to do this, i'd stop work on my .dif editor, and start working on this, with a built in Developer Environment. Oh, and reguarding the editor, the GUI is coded and exported to C++ code. I changed the directory structure so i'm weeding out those errors that where caused because of that.
10/23/2004 (8:52 am)
No no no, you guys are not understanding it right lol. It would be a fully 3D OS. Torque will be able to run Win32/Mac/Linux apps within itself using 2 things. An emulator, and an extention. The extention is source within Torque telling the emulator what to do. The emulator is an external SLL file that helps run the apps within torque. So, not only would Torque has its own set of programs VIA a expanded scripting system. Sure theres lots of technicalities to work out, but i think it could work. And reguarding all those 3d desktops and stuff, this would be alot more indepth. You could do anything to a window, even walk in a 3d world within your desktop. Heck! You could have an RPG in the desktop, and click a button on the bottom corner to release the keyboard and mouse from the menus and put it into the game, then the menus would auto-hide, and youd be playing the RPG. I mean the uses are limitless. Xavior: I never said making an OS was easy, infact i haven't used the term easy once in my paragraph. Also, in no way did i imply (atleast i think i didn't) that it would be easy, it would take work and loads of skill. Reguarding the filesystem, it would be within the Kernal. Linux has its own filesystem in which the Linux Programs are used too. So, i would keep the base Linux filesystem intact, for linux program capatibility. Then, I would have a folder on the root called Torque OS, this is where the torque files, and Win32/Torque programs are stored. The folders in this would be "OS" (Main Torque/OS Files) "Programs" (each Torque/Win32 program would have a seperate folder) "Config" (Where the users documents and config files are stored), and crap i forgot the other few, lemme try an remember them. and Yes, crashing is a bug, but and one that you would have to conquer, maybe desktop saving? I'm not 100% sure how we would fix it.
Dan: If done right people would prob use it over Linux, and Win32. Yes, longhorn has some 3D EFFECTS but its not 3D to the point of Mac OSX (From what i've seen).
Guys, i never said it would be easy. Because frankly, i know its gonna be hard as heck. But i think it would pay off. If we were to do this, i'd stop work on my .dif editor, and start working on this, with a built in Developer Environment. Oh, and reguarding the editor, the GUI is coded and exported to C++ code. I changed the directory structure so i'm weeding out those errors that where caused because of that.
#14
Btw, www.3dna.net
10/23/2004 (8:57 am)
Riiight, so it took the WINE team almost 10 years to achieve a half working win32 emulator under linux and you want to do that as part of your OS work... so release date, ummm 2040? That torque runs on 3 os's doesn't mean that torque is an OS emulator.Btw, www.3dna.net
#15
10/23/2004 (9:24 am)
Guys...seriously. I realize you are all getting off on this, but I think you would have better success by taking all of these ideas and time and using them to make an MMORPG.
#16
10/23/2004 (9:25 am)
Hehehe.
#17
10/23/2004 (9:34 am)
Its just an idea :). And i know about 3dna. And yes Xavier i know its not an emulator :). I doubt anyone is gonna make a Torque OS tho, but it would be cool.
#19
10/23/2004 (11:40 pm)
It was just a mental exercise for me. Yeah, I'm easily entertained. :) 
Torque 3D Owner Eric Forhan