The New Magic Word
by Brett Seyler · 11/12/2009 (4:02 pm) · 289 comments
Last week, Epic Games made a pretty big splash announcing the "UDK" or Unreal Development Kit. UDK is based on the *very expensive* Unreal Engine 3, the most dominant game engine in the big budget console games space. There's been a lot of hyperbolic talk about how this is an "end of days" development for Torque and our friendly Copenhagen competitors, Unity. I want to take a while here to talk about what I think this means for Torque and where we fit in the competitive landscape.When the announcement showed up, of course I immediately wanted to dig in and find out what was up. I took some time and looked at the license on the UDK site. Many people here downloaded the UDK to play around with it and see what was what. It turns out that the UDK is basically an up to date set of editors for Unreal Engine 3. There's no source code provided. Instead, as with modding, you can do scripting with Epic's Unrealscript. You can package your project for Windows only. There are docs online, but otherwise no dedicated support. So let's be clear. This is NOT Unreal Engine 3. That would kill a huge source of revenue (supported, source code licensing for PC and consoles) for Epic. It *is* a well-tested, rich set of editors for making stuff based on UE3 games or projects.
What's the license like for this? Well, Epic is slapping up the word FREE everywhere and who doesn't love something for FREE right? It's a magic word. The UDK website grants you (for free) a license to make non-commercial works. If you want to make money, or benefit indirectly somehow from using the UDK (think making a demo to advertise or sell something else or a company who wants to train employees with a simulation), you have to pay. The terms of making something commercial with the UDK are actually a bit murky because Epic does not post the license on their site or allow you to purchase a commercial license on thier site. Instead, they give you an email address to hit up and describe the terms of the license structure.
Option A: You benefit (somehow) from using and distributing UDK projects, but there's no revenue. You can pay $2500 / seat annually for this use of the UDK.
Option B: You sell, advertise on, or somehow directly or indirectly, generate revenue from a project made with UDK. You pay $99 up front and you give up 25% of all revenues exceeding $5000 on that project.
Pretty straightforward options! It would be nice to see the license, but assuming it's reasonable, sounds like a pretty fair deal. So what's the catch? How does Epic make money from this? They don't. Not really. This is a loss leader and an evangelism play and it really doesn't cost them much of anything to do. For years you've been able to spend $60 on Unreal Tournament, Gears of War, or other Unreal titles and use the provided editors to modify the game. You can do a lot with mods and people have created really cool stuff. Epic never monetized this practice before. Instead, they used it as a way to create longer tail sales for their games and to recruit new talent from the modder community. By offering the "UDK," Epic is taking the next step by letting people distribute Unreal mods without requiring ownership of the modded Unreal game. In addition to formalizing what they've always done with the mod communities built around Unreal, Epic is likely to heavily monetize the inevitable step from UDK --> UE3. This is no small step and it will cost small teams as much as Epic can wring out of them, in addition to the 25% royalties they are already on the hook for. My guess is that it will be case by case, but it's guaranteed that most teams will run into barriers not having access to the engine source, just as they do with other binary-only engines.
I'm not going to dismiss this move by Epic. It matters. Here's why...
#1: It's Epic (no pun intended). They are an absolute behemoth in the games industry. They've absolutely demolished all competitors in the AAA console engine space for the last 5 years, essentially since EA acquired Criterion, makers of Renderware, and stopped licensing it to 3rd parties. They have an established business selling very expensive (think 6-7 figures, depending on the royalty rate) licenses for big budget console games and now, they've decided they want indies, amateurs, and hobbyists to use their product too. That's a pretty decent market disturbance.
#2: It's validation. When I wrote about the hyper-competitive, well-served big budget AAA space while discussing the pricing and licensing of Torque 3D back in January, I noted that the AAA middleware market hasn't grown much in the last decade and it continues to be a pretty fixed size market. At the same time, the space Torque and Unity occupy (better accessibility and opportunity via lower licensing costs and more attractive platforms) has grown tremendously. This community here grows by hundreds of users every week. A larger portion of the games industry as a whole is moving away from stagnant AAA console games and targeting super-fast growing platforms like the iPhone, Facebook, and yes, even just regular PC online games. Clearly Epic must see something they like in these markets. They missed the boat on the Wii and they are probably struggling to maintain (let alone grow) revenues in the AAA console space. I'm not sure if this will be a long-lasting commitment on Epic's part, or simply a way to maximize the value of their current tech while the new stuff (UE4) is what they're going to start pushing to high-end clients, right around the corner. Regardless, validation is nice.
#3: Now everyone can see behind the "AAA" curtain. We've been telling you for years that Torque is top-notch technology. We've said "it's documented up to, and in many cases well beyond the industry standard." Without being able to look at engines like Unreal, that's been a hard claim for you guys to verify. Now you can. Have a look at UDK. Look at the tools. Look at the docs. Test out the support. We think you'll find that Torque 3D stacks up very well in comparison, and all without the licensing burden of big royalties or high-cost access to source. Putting aside source though, it's worth answering the question:
What does Torque currently do better than Unreal?
Rendering - Torque is the first affordable engine with a deferred renderer. You have real-time dynamic lighting and shadows. You can have thousands of dynamic point lights in a scene at almost no hit to performance. You can't do this in Unreal. Torque's Light Pre-pass rendering is the standard for the current era of hardware. CryEngine uses it as do many of the best looking games on the market.

Contrast this with Unreal, which uses a years old forward renderer that does not allow for global dynamic lighting or shadows. In fact, UE3 does not support more than one dynamic light casting shadows on the same object. It will switch shadows automatically to the nearest light. A directional light will allways switch off any light's shadows. With Unreal, all global illumination is baked. Everything you can do in Unreal, you can do with pureLIGHT in Torque 3D, but with Torque, you can combine dynamic global lighting and shadows with beautfully baked static lightmaps that give you realtime iterative results, not an hours long, black box baking process. Looking ahead, we'll probably be the first affordable engine with DX11 support, and I doubt you're going to see that from Unreal until UE4, likely a couple years away from public licensing, at least.
Terrain (editing AND fidelity) - Definitely test out the UDK terrain editors next to Torque 3D's. The UDK terrain tools are several generations behind us. In Torque 3D, you get much nicer terrain fidelity as well. It takes the right artwork to show this (which you'll see with Pacific Demo here in a few weeks), but the advantage for Torque is clear.

Networking - Out of the box, Torque 3D will do things that you'll never get UDK to do without source code access and a LOT of work. It's as simple as that.
Platform support - Capable deployment to OSX machines is increasing a very important component to success for small teams. Torque 3D offers a path to every major platform out there (Windows, Mac, Web, Wii, Xbox 360, iPhone, with PS3 and PSP in the works).

Special purpose tools. - The road and river tools are just the beginning, but there's a lot more coming in 1.1 and 1.2 that you haven't seen before and which you definitely won't find in UDK.Community resources, add-ons, and extensions. This is such a talent-rich and generous community. We do our very best not to take your contributions for granted. Rather, a major focus, particularly on this website in the next year, will be adding features that make the surfacing, sharing, and vetting of community resources and project much easier and much more powerful. There's really a lot we can do here and you're going to see constant improvement.
Now, UDK has some things not currently in Torque in it's favor as well. Nice features like nav meshes for AI, improved animation tools, etc. are all on our roadmap, but not yet in Torque 3D, so we've still got plenty of work ahead of us to keep up and stay competitive.
We want to take Torque much further, allowing developers to unlock opportunities on the best emerging platforms. That's going to take continued work and investment in the product by us, but we run a pretty lean operation, we reinvest nearly every dollar you spend with us back into product development, and we are moving *super* fast.
'FREE' might just be the new SSAO
We realize that staying ahead of the curve on technology is just part of the equation. The licensing model we choose is important and we're paying attention to all this FREE stuff as much as the rest of you. We want to offer something at a very accessible price, or perhaps for FREE as a good entry to learning and using Torque 3D. Currently, our free option is a demo, limited by the number of objects you can place in your scene. This obviously isn't useful to create an entire game, but it does give you a good feel for what Torque 3D's tool set can do, given that it's not feature limited in any way other than not including the source code.
By comparison, UDK also gives you everything for free, no features limited by the free version other than the source code, but you cannot use it to make anything commercial without payment. The cost, at minimum, is $99 + 25% of your revenues (after $5k total). Unity strips a great deal of their features out of their free version. These can drastically handicap development for some teams, but there's no reason why you couldn't finish some games with it either. The license is liberal, so it's a good stepping stone to make your first game, solo, if you're willing to live with some of the feature limitations.

So where does Torque 3D fit in all of this? Our "Professional" version, which includes source code, access to beta builds, private forums, etc is just $1000 / seat. We don't currently have an option between this and our free demo, but we want one. I think the recent developments by Unity and Epic and all the new developers trying their hand at 3D games warrants a low-priced option for Torque 3D, as well.
At the end of September, when we released Torque 3D 1.0, I included a poll contemplating an full-featured, binary-only version of Torque 3D to go for $500 / seat. Though the results were overwhelmingly in favor of this option, I think we can do better. In the past, I've been really happy with the feedback you've given us making decisions like this, so I want to enlist your help again.
What should we do?
What would you be happy with?
What do you think would be best for the community the future of the product?
Do we want a more elite, experienced community of programmers here?
Do we want to create a more balanced mix of great artists too?
I have my instincts on these questions, and we've discussed them a great deal internally, but I've always come back to this community as one of the big reasons to choose Torque for a new developer. It's one of kind and I want to keep it together and help it grow as much as possible. That won't happen if we don't have a competitive offering in Torque. This means we need enough income to feed the developers and keep the product blazing ahead full speed. But at the same time, if every new beginner cuts their teeth on UDK or Unity because they have viable free option and Torque doesn't, well, I don't like the position that puts us in for the long run either.
So please, let us know what you think! I promise I'll listen and weigh all feedback carefully. I hope to make a decision on this by the end of the month, so let fly with the suggestions and opinions. It's all welcome.
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#2
11/12/2009 (4:19 pm)
Great Job explaining this. I have been fighting for Torque through all of these "free" engine releases. I'm comfortable with Torque and I'm sticking with it.
#3
11/12/2009 (4:20 pm)
Nice post Brett. I can only imagine how much you had to rewrite this to ensure that it doesnt come off as something that slags the competition. I think you have done a great job here of posting a fairly unbiased comparison of the 3 different engines and why Torque3D (and any future Torque efforts) remain strong and useful to the end user and that contrary to what Chicken Little is saying the sky is not falling.
#4
11/12/2009 (4:21 pm)
Quote:Pacific Demo here in a few weekscool
....
The road and river tools are just the beginning, but there's a lot more coming in 1.1 and 1.2 that you haven't seen before
#5
For anyone just getting started, small teams, or just for educational purposes... you will not find a better deal out there. I'm so happy with the TGE, TGEA, and now Torque 3D purchases I have made for myself. Call me a fan boy if you'd like but like I said I've had my head into the code of a major engine and you see where I am and happy at that :)
Now if I could just get more time to get my game ideas rolling outside of my 2 jobs I work ><
Great job Garage Games!
I truly believe you guys have sent shivers down the backs of those big AAA engine companies, it's them that are doing the worrying ;)
11/12/2009 (4:29 pm)
I agree a more (binary \ artist only) seat option to the Torque 3D product line would work miracles to small teams. But honestly, I would not sweat the competition. I have 1 retail game under my belt already, with a previous big name competitor's engine and let me tell you from experience. The product offering Garage Games has given (mainly full source code access) coupled with the pricing range is unheard of!For anyone just getting started, small teams, or just for educational purposes... you will not find a better deal out there. I'm so happy with the TGE, TGEA, and now Torque 3D purchases I have made for myself. Call me a fan boy if you'd like but like I said I've had my head into the code of a major engine and you see where I am and happy at that :)
Now if I could just get more time to get my game ideas rolling outside of my 2 jobs I work ><
Great job Garage Games!
I truly believe you guys have sent shivers down the backs of those big AAA engine companies, it's them that are doing the worrying ;)
#6
I think allowing designers & artists access to the kit for as cheap as possible is the best route - they already spend lots on the 3DS Max, etc. Without that option for them to use the tools and help develop I can't see any of my team upgrading and we'll lose some of those artists from the team and community here.
11/12/2009 (4:32 pm)
Not a bad write up there and WOW a stunning view of the terrain in that shot would be fantastic if there were some tutorials talking through how to create a terrain of that quality.I think allowing designers & artists access to the kit for as cheap as possible is the best route - they already spend lots on the 3DS Max, etc. Without that option for them to use the tools and help develop I can't see any of my team upgrading and we'll lose some of those artists from the team and community here.
#7
So i saw Torque 3D beta looked at the features that it had and came with source code, but at the time i was broke.
As time passed and more features came out for Torque 3d i thought that this could be the engine for me, as you can see Features are it for me :).
So i purchased the Torque 3D Pro Version Beta, it was still very buggy and with each release it got better but the engine change quite a few times.
I hope that when Torque 3d 1.1 comes out that they have a bit more consistence in the back end so we don't need to keep changing the code/models/anima/ etc.
And i don't wont to forget the awesome packs/addons that are coming out.
Keep up the great work Torque 3D team.
my 2 cents worth
11/12/2009 (4:34 pm)
well i real don't care about the other engines,I have purchased over 10 different engines over the years.Unity ide version i purchased, but going from that price to Unity pro was way to much for a few extra features also no source code.So i saw Torque 3D beta looked at the features that it had and came with source code, but at the time i was broke.
As time passed and more features came out for Torque 3d i thought that this could be the engine for me, as you can see Features are it for me :).
So i purchased the Torque 3D Pro Version Beta, it was still very buggy and with each release it got better but the engine change quite a few times.
I hope that when Torque 3d 1.1 comes out that they have a bit more consistence in the back end so we don't need to keep changing the code/models/anima/ etc.
And i don't wont to forget the awesome packs/addons that are coming out.
Keep up the great work Torque 3D team.
my 2 cents worth
#8
Well, this seems to be a common practice even Garage Games follow so no real difference in things there.
Or, they are merely trying to keep the innovation soup sticking around their editor and pipeline instead of letting it melt out into the indie fields. Which is kind of what you sum up in #1 & 2
Small teams aren’t normally allowed hands on at the big engines, despite having cash and talent in house, as they dislike being seamed up with vaporware, folders, and similar bad projects.
Your #3 is a little blurry. Agreed you have previously compared Torque features, documentation and support to AAA engines like U3, but what we can look at with UDK is not U3, let’s not compare claimed similarity with a freebie of what T3D guns for.
I’m not quite sure what the technical difference is between the 2 in terms of lightning, but it’s kind of odd to see you compare T3D lights with UE3, when using pureLight as a measure (pureLight is not part of the engine out of the box)
When the next pacific Demo hits us, will it be easy to tell T3D and the coming add on apart?
Special purpose tolls; as you mention 1.1 and 1.2 I assume these will be paid upgrades to the engine.
I find it hard to put GG’s current community (resources) in front of Unreal’s community, it’s as huge as their brand, and my point with the couple of remarks above is; costs sum up.
What should you do?
State what’s in, claim no further!
Mention only what will come!
What would I be happy with?
Add in Wetness, Cloth, JiggleBones, SpeedTree (or that woodthing), and terrain overhangs!
What I think would be best for the community for the future of the product?
Make a binary teammates can use for the art pipeline (making zones) or doing scripts @ app 100$ as these members of a team normally are those most loosely connected and most inclined to depart.
Do I want a more elite, experienced community of programmers here?
They are already around, some as paid contractors others as resource creators. Make these affiliates and hand them a T3D license as long as they aid like this.
Do I want to create a more balanced mix of great artists too?
Oh yes sir
Nice to see a quality summary & a great blog btw ;)
11/12/2009 (4:51 pm)
Quote:The terms of making something commercial with the UDK are actually a bit murky because Epic does not post the license on their site or allow you to purchase a commercial license on thier site. Instead, they give you an email address to hit up and describe the terms of the license structure.
Well, this seems to be a common practice even Garage Games follow so no real difference in things there.
Quote: Epic never monetized this practice before. Instead, they used it as a way to create longer tail sales for their games and to recruit new talent from the modder community. By offering the "UDK," Epic is taking the next step by letting people distribute Unreal mods without requiring ownership of the modded Unreal game.
In addition to formalizing what they've always done with the mod communities built around Unreal, Epic is likely to heavily monetize the inevitable step from UDK --> UE3. This is no small step and it will cost small teams as much as Epic can wring out of them, in addition to the 25% royalties they are already on the hook for. My guess is that it will be case by case,
Or, they are merely trying to keep the innovation soup sticking around their editor and pipeline instead of letting it melt out into the indie fields. Which is kind of what you sum up in #1 & 2
Quote: This is no small step and it will cost small teams as much as Epic can wring out of them
Small teams aren’t normally allowed hands on at the big engines, despite having cash and talent in house, as they dislike being seamed up with vaporware, folders, and similar bad projects.
Your #3 is a little blurry. Agreed you have previously compared Torque features, documentation and support to AAA engines like U3, but what we can look at with UDK is not U3, let’s not compare claimed similarity with a freebie of what T3D guns for.
I’m not quite sure what the technical difference is between the 2 in terms of lightning, but it’s kind of odd to see you compare T3D lights with UE3, when using pureLight as a measure (pureLight is not part of the engine out of the box)
When the next pacific Demo hits us, will it be easy to tell T3D and the coming add on apart?
Special purpose tolls; as you mention 1.1 and 1.2 I assume these will be paid upgrades to the engine.
I find it hard to put GG’s current community (resources) in front of Unreal’s community, it’s as huge as their brand, and my point with the couple of remarks above is; costs sum up.
What should you do?
State what’s in, claim no further!
Mention only what will come!
What would I be happy with?
Add in Wetness, Cloth, JiggleBones, SpeedTree (or that woodthing), and terrain overhangs!
What I think would be best for the community for the future of the product?
Make a binary teammates can use for the art pipeline (making zones) or doing scripts @ app 100$ as these members of a team normally are those most loosely connected and most inclined to depart.
Do I want a more elite, experienced community of programmers here?
They are already around, some as paid contractors others as resource creators. Make these affiliates and hand them a T3D license as long as they aid like this.
Do I want to create a more balanced mix of great artists too?
Oh yes sir
Quote: , if every new beginner cuts their teeth on UDK or Unity because they have viable free option and Torque doesn't, well, I don't like the position that puts us in for the long run either.
Nice to see a quality summary & a great blog btw ;)
#10
Now you guys just need to implement some better scripting and it will be the perfect engine!
11/12/2009 (5:05 pm)
T3D has better rendering than Unreal??? Wow! That's surprising!Now you guys just need to implement some better scripting and it will be the perfect engine!
#11
These are the things I would like see T3D do:
1. Leave the price where it is.
2. Keep the T3D forum private.
3. Extremely high emphasis on getting rid of bugs.
4. More Documentation. 1.0 has been out for over a month (2months?) and we still don't have a complete set of Docs, with all due respect for Michael's hard work. I do understand how difficult it has been, but at minimum, if the plan is to give free T3D upgrades for 1 year or 2 years, that time period should start when the docs are substantially complete, not on the date 1.0 was released. There are many features that I am still having trouble with or only recently figured out, because there is no documentation on them. Ground Cover comes to mind.
5. Embrace, once again, the "hobbyist". Perhaps not via price, but via no bugs, full docs, tutorials, books, up to date videos, and excellent customer support. Make T3D THE most user friendly engine available.
6. Continue the product development, especially with an eye toward including features that make T3D out of the box more easy to use with other game genres such as RPGs (streaming terrain comes to mind!)
These are the things I am already happy with:
1. The price.
2. The availability of lots of add ons.
3. The responsiveness of the community.
4. the quality of the engine.
Thanks for listening.
11/12/2009 (5:09 pm)
Quote:What should we do? What would you be happy with?
These are the things I would like see T3D do:
1. Leave the price where it is.
2. Keep the T3D forum private.
3. Extremely high emphasis on getting rid of bugs.
4. More Documentation. 1.0 has been out for over a month (2months?) and we still don't have a complete set of Docs, with all due respect for Michael's hard work. I do understand how difficult it has been, but at minimum, if the plan is to give free T3D upgrades for 1 year or 2 years, that time period should start when the docs are substantially complete, not on the date 1.0 was released. There are many features that I am still having trouble with or only recently figured out, because there is no documentation on them. Ground Cover comes to mind.
5. Embrace, once again, the "hobbyist". Perhaps not via price, but via no bugs, full docs, tutorials, books, up to date videos, and excellent customer support. Make T3D THE most user friendly engine available.
6. Continue the product development, especially with an eye toward including features that make T3D out of the box more easy to use with other game genres such as RPGs (streaming terrain comes to mind!)
These are the things I am already happy with:
1. The price.
2. The availability of lots of add ons.
3. The responsiveness of the community.
4. the quality of the engine.
Thanks for listening.
#12
www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/105491
Good blog brett keep up the good work.
11/12/2009 (5:12 pm)
@andy there is already a vidio tutorial on how to get object's and turrain to look like that.www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/105491
Good blog brett keep up the good work.
#13
I'm not the only one who thinks that screenshot of the terrain is spectacular. This made me think.. Torque 3D's features are top of the line, yet so many people do not realize that. I think it'd be great to have some better eye-candy as promo material. Stuff that I can send to my friends and tell them - see, this is what I work with.
You could make contests for all kinds of artists and programmers and make the rules, so these works would be shared and would be usable as promotional stuff. Contests like "PostFx effects" or "Evil characters", etc.. It would generate a lot of new content, it would add to the value of the engine, and if you'd present winners with licenses to some of your products, there would me many contestants.
I'd be happy with you guys maintaining this awesome pace at which you fix and implement stuff. It's crazy!
The direction Torque has taken with the preparation and launch of Torque 3D is exactly the direction I prefer.
11/12/2009 (5:13 pm)
Great blog, Brett. Nice of you guys being so open about this, and discussing it with the community. Also, thank you for the great explanation.Quote:
What should we do?
I'm not the only one who thinks that screenshot of the terrain is spectacular. This made me think.. Torque 3D's features are top of the line, yet so many people do not realize that. I think it'd be great to have some better eye-candy as promo material. Stuff that I can send to my friends and tell them - see, this is what I work with.
You could make contests for all kinds of artists and programmers and make the rules, so these works would be shared and would be usable as promotional stuff. Contests like "PostFx effects" or "Evil characters", etc.. It would generate a lot of new content, it would add to the value of the engine, and if you'd present winners with licenses to some of your products, there would me many contestants.
Quote:
What would you be happy with?
I'd be happy with you guys maintaining this awesome pace at which you fix and implement stuff. It's crazy!
Quote:
What do you think would be best for the community the future of the product? Do we want a more elite, experienced community of programmers here? Do we want to create a more balanced mix of great artists too?
The direction Torque has taken with the preparation and launch of Torque 3D is exactly the direction I prefer.
#14
11/12/2009 (5:13 pm)
I agree with Steve with the documentation. Written documentation is good, but video documentation is 20x better and quicker to learn.
#15
And not another marble game!
11/12/2009 (5:16 pm)
As Konrad said, you need something to show how epic Torque is. I suggest making a flagship game similar to how Epic made Unreal Tournament.And not another marble game!
#16
You currently have 3 tiers for T3D:
Tier 1: Free, watermarked, Object limited version
Tier 2: $???, No source, licensed version
Tier 3: $1000, Source available, licensed version
Here is what I think needs to happen to those tiers:
Tier 1: Free, watermarked, Non-Commercial only
Tier 2: $500, non watermarked, licensed version
Tier 3: $1000, Source available, licensed version
The big problem with getting into T3D development as an indie/hobbiest is the gamble you take on the engine. The question I ask myself is, "If I spend $500/$1000, am I going to finish something to make use that $500/$1000?". The answer I have came up with currently is no, its too much money to gamble away on myself. What the revised tiers would mean for most people is they can download T3D, have the freedom to learn the engine, and create a game without the gamble. When they feel capable of releasing a product, they purchase the Tier 2 license then watermark is stripped away and they can now work on getting a game published.
Regardless of what you decide, thanks for all the hard work and awesome tech!
11/12/2009 (5:16 pm)
First, just so you know, I have never owned TGE or TGEA and I currently only have a TGB Pro license. I have been pretty interested in T3D though, as I usually keep up with all the information you guys have been putting out. Here is what I think sounds like a good solution to get more people familiar with your product and using the tech you all have worked so hard on.You currently have 3 tiers for T3D:
Tier 1: Free, watermarked, Object limited version
Tier 2: $???, No source, licensed version
Tier 3: $1000, Source available, licensed version
Here is what I think needs to happen to those tiers:
Tier 1: Free, watermarked, Non-Commercial only
Tier 2: $500, non watermarked, licensed version
Tier 3: $1000, Source available, licensed version
The big problem with getting into T3D development as an indie/hobbiest is the gamble you take on the engine. The question I ask myself is, "If I spend $500/$1000, am I going to finish something to make use that $500/$1000?". The answer I have came up with currently is no, its too much money to gamble away on myself. What the revised tiers would mean for most people is they can download T3D, have the freedom to learn the engine, and create a game without the gamble. When they feel capable of releasing a product, they purchase the Tier 2 license then watermark is stripped away and they can now work on getting a game published.
Regardless of what you decide, thanks for all the hard work and awesome tech!
#17
Unreal is based on forward rendering.
Each surface needs to be drawn again for each light so it is slow.
11/12/2009 (5:20 pm)
@Tyler Slabinski Unreal is based on forward rendering.
Each surface needs to be drawn again for each light so it is slow.
#18
That says something in my book
11/12/2009 (5:20 pm)
Has anyone noticed how all this freebies have come out almost right after T3D was officially released?That says something in my book
#19
How's about we point out what has happened since 1.0? Just the other day I pushed new documentation on the Rendering System and GUI Editor. 10 new, unique HTML pages which actually results in about 114 printed pages of documentation.
Page count means when I load up the docs in something like MS Word and perform a print preview, as if it were a book. Here are the current stats on Torque 3D documentation:
Number of individual HTML files: 60
Printed Page Count: 694
Estimated number of pages taken up by bad format and table of contents: 94 (Extremely modest and critical number, could be less but I don't have time to just print preview the whitespace)
TOTAL PAGE COUNT: 600
600 printed pages of solid documentation. That's more than a lot of game developer books you can purchase. To add icing to the cake, new docs are still being written. I plan on spending the next 4 months wrapping up the documentation for Torque 3D, so you can imagine what the final counts will be by then. The numbers can be adjusted based on what you might use to perform page counts (PDF, Word, HTML counter, etc), but it's still a huge and well written set of docs with contributions from quite a few people
Now, what I am open to (and currently requesting) is some additional feedback on what kinds of tutorials are needed and how the current docs flow. There has been heavy emphasis on the World Editor and Scripts, and less on the engine side of things. But this is all one big discussion that should happen in the Official Feedback Thread.
@Tyler - Yeah, I love video documentation the same as everyone else. Unfortunately the editing process takes up a lot of time, which I cannot allocate away from writing documentation. I'd like to get on this, though. I have some people in mind to develop video tutorials.
11/12/2009 (5:26 pm)
@Steve - Good feedback. What is unfair (to you and the other users) is that I have inside information. I happen to know that the Ground Cover system is changing, so writing a 10 page doc which will be useless very soon will do no good.How's about we point out what has happened since 1.0? Just the other day I pushed new documentation on the Rendering System and GUI Editor. 10 new, unique HTML pages which actually results in about 114 printed pages of documentation.
Page count means when I load up the docs in something like MS Word and perform a print preview, as if it were a book. Here are the current stats on Torque 3D documentation:
Number of individual HTML files: 60
Printed Page Count: 694
Estimated number of pages taken up by bad format and table of contents: 94 (Extremely modest and critical number, could be less but I don't have time to just print preview the whitespace)
TOTAL PAGE COUNT: 600
600 printed pages of solid documentation. That's more than a lot of game developer books you can purchase. To add icing to the cake, new docs are still being written. I plan on spending the next 4 months wrapping up the documentation for Torque 3D, so you can imagine what the final counts will be by then. The numbers can be adjusted based on what you might use to perform page counts (PDF, Word, HTML counter, etc), but it's still a huge and well written set of docs with contributions from quite a few people
Now, what I am open to (and currently requesting) is some additional feedback on what kinds of tutorials are needed and how the current docs flow. There has been heavy emphasis on the World Editor and Scripts, and less on the engine side of things. But this is all one big discussion that should happen in the Official Feedback Thread.
@Tyler - Yeah, I love video documentation the same as everyone else. Unfortunately the editing process takes up a lot of time, which I cannot allocate away from writing documentation. I'd like to get on this, though. I have some people in mind to develop video tutorials.
#20
@Luis: Many people don't believe in coincidences :)
11/12/2009 (5:33 pm)
@Eric: Sensible suggestions. Add my vote to that.@Luis: Many people don't believe in coincidences :)

Torque 3D Owner Ronny Bangsund
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