Can your Engine do this? Without dying soon after!
by OmegaDog · 06/13/2009 (4:39 am) · 19 comments
"Hello all that surf looking for the proof that $1,000.00 dollars is going to the best bang for your buck, you are at the right place enter and you will see that in Beta the Torque3D engine is rock solid and you can get this now or later you decide!"
Ok lets get this rolling!
Collada I love it and I hate it! Long live DTS exporters!
I have been trying to bust the Torque3D engine wide open crash city on purpose, I have killed Source with a massive level that Hammer created and the engine crash I created a PhysBox Castle and even though Hammer created it Source crashed. Even though I did create some great amateur stuff(Thanks To Noesis) I never really was able to do anything with art from the Internet not so with Torque3D. I did a desert(poly heavy) video it was 100% DTS, this time we have Collada staring but don't think the engine is struggling on just this 167k its not! you see why its a little sluggish, its at the end or you read the entire blog before watching.
First Video Staring 3DSMax, This video shows how you easy you can take a $30 TurboSquid Pack that boasts a whooping 167K triangles for export in a single collada file, unfortunately Fraps does not capture GUI content just 3d content, when the video seems to not do anything it is because I am doing some basic GUI function(Clicking ok) this is not tutorial quality just so you how you split up a huge seen to 12k hunks easy as pie:
1) Select Mesh
2) Convert to Editable Poly
3) Select Poly Face mode
4) Start selecting poly's the right hand screen will tell you the qty selected try stay in the 12k range or your will bust the optimize in Torque3D based on my bigger selection attempts. Then click Detach and repeat, in max its easy max will not allow you to select poly's twice.
5) Export your model you should now have about 17 Mesh's that will be exported. In the video for the sake of speed my grouping was off i ended up with less meshs.
About the Fortress Kit just to clarify it came almost game ready even though the wood planks need collision mapped for game play it was UV mapped with diffuse I made Normal maps with SMPro, Texture assignment for diffuse and normal where done in max, diffuse by artist and normal by me but still at the art level :( Collada insisted or I would get undesired results with manually editing the material.cs that is created by Torque3D when you run the project so this was cool after all I can control the final mapping results in max this is what Collada is trying to achieve anyway.
Shown in ShadedRender not to spoil the video.
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/KlIeeK5waOE&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
GAME Play Video:
Note: All models PolySoup checked. SSAO FFAA There is no LOD in the models on purpose lods necessary I know but not for engine peak performance test it is not needed in my opinion unless lod performance was what I was testing.)
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/xsqguTV1TR4&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
Dev Play Video: We use metrics that Tom showed me("fps shadow gfx"); to show us what the engine is doing in this dev flyby.
Recomend HD Link to See Text.
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/Zmdi2m3JWfQ&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
Update Video(real short): How did it effect the desert you may ask!
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/iKEm5Jk4DsY&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
Those that have seen the Desert Video, What do you think?
I think its easy to say it didn't much, for what reason? around 12K Ploy splits for one and the million other things you will never have to worry about with Torque3D.
I will teach you what I know If you will teach me what you know!
我会教你什么，我知道如果你教我什么你知道！
Я буду учить вас, что я знаю, если ты будешь учить меня, что вы знаете!
Voy a enseñarle lo que sé si me va a enseñar lo que sabes!
I nauczy co wiem Jeśli nauczy mnie to, co wiesz!
もし何か私に教えられ、私が知っている私が教えします！
Io vi insegnerà quello che so Se mi insegnerà ciò che sai!
Ich kann Ihnen beibringen, was ich wissen, ob Sie mir, was Sie wissen!
אני ילמד אותך מה שאני יודע אם ילמד אותי מה אתה יודע!
Я буду навчати вас, що я знаю, якщо ти будеш вчити мене, що ви знаєте!
Megtanítom amit tudok, ha megtanítod amit tudsz.
Cya' Around
OmegaDog
欧米茄狗
Ok lets get this rolling!
Collada I love it and I hate it! Long live DTS exporters!
I have been trying to bust the Torque3D engine wide open crash city on purpose, I have killed Source with a massive level that Hammer created and the engine crash I created a PhysBox Castle and even though Hammer created it Source crashed. Even though I did create some great amateur stuff(Thanks To Noesis) I never really was able to do anything with art from the Internet not so with Torque3D. I did a desert(poly heavy) video it was 100% DTS, this time we have Collada staring but don't think the engine is struggling on just this 167k its not! you see why its a little sluggish, its at the end or you read the entire blog before watching.
First Video Staring 3DSMax, This video shows how you easy you can take a $30 TurboSquid Pack that boasts a whooping 167K triangles for export in a single collada file, unfortunately Fraps does not capture GUI content just 3d content, when the video seems to not do anything it is because I am doing some basic GUI function(Clicking ok) this is not tutorial quality just so you how you split up a huge seen to 12k hunks easy as pie:
1) Select Mesh
2) Convert to Editable Poly
3) Select Poly Face mode
4) Start selecting poly's the right hand screen will tell you the qty selected try stay in the 12k range or your will bust the optimize in Torque3D based on my bigger selection attempts. Then click Detach and repeat, in max its easy max will not allow you to select poly's twice.
5) Export your model you should now have about 17 Mesh's that will be exported. In the video for the sake of speed my grouping was off i ended up with less meshs.
About the Fortress Kit just to clarify it came almost game ready even though the wood planks need collision mapped for game play it was UV mapped with diffuse I made Normal maps with SMPro, Texture assignment for diffuse and normal where done in max, diffuse by artist and normal by me but still at the art level :( Collada insisted or I would get undesired results with manually editing the material.cs that is created by Torque3D when you run the project so this was cool after all I can control the final mapping results in max this is what Collada is trying to achieve anyway.
Shown in ShadedRender not to spoil the video.
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/KlIeeK5waOE&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
GAME Play Video:
Note: All models PolySoup checked. SSAO FFAA There is no LOD in the models on purpose lods necessary I know but not for engine peak performance test it is not needed in my opinion unless lod performance was what I was testing.)
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/xsqguTV1TR4&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
Dev Play Video: We use metrics that Tom showed me("fps shadow gfx"); to show us what the engine is doing in this dev flyby.
Recomend HD Link to See Text.
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/Zmdi2m3JWfQ&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
Update Video(real short): How did it effect the desert you may ask!
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/iKEm5Jk4DsY&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
Those that have seen the Desert Video, What do you think?
I think its easy to say it didn't much, for what reason? around 12K Ploy splits for one and the million other things you will never have to worry about with Torque3D.
I will teach you what I know If you will teach me what you know!
我会教你什么，我知道如果你教我什么你知道！
Я буду учить вас, что я знаю, если ты будешь учить меня, что вы знаете!
Voy a enseñarle lo que sé si me va a enseñar lo que sabes!
I nauczy co wiem Jeśli nauczy mnie to, co wiesz!
もし何か私に教えられ、私が知っている私が教えします！
Io vi insegnerà quello che so Se mi insegnerà ciò che sai!
Ich kann Ihnen beibringen, was ich wissen, ob Sie mir, was Sie wissen!
אני ילמד אותך מה שאני יודע אם ילמד אותי מה אתה יודע!
Я буду навчати вас, що я знаю, якщо ти будеш вчити мене, що ви знаєте!
Megtanítom amit tudok, ha megtanítod amit tudsz.
Cya' Around
OmegaDog
欧米茄狗
#2
What kind of machine do you run on?
I was wondering because my experience with Torque3D so far performance-wise is terrible. The advanced lightning totally kills my frame-rate(I have 10 fps with a complete empty mission!). While basic lightning works fine.
I guess it really depends on what kind of system you run, if you have a monster pc, then everything looks good performance-wise doesn't it?
06/13/2009 (10:10 am)
Nice work OmegaDog, looking good.What kind of machine do you run on?
I was wondering because my experience with Torque3D so far performance-wise is terrible. The advanced lightning totally kills my frame-rate(I have 10 fps with a complete empty mission!). While basic lightning works fine.
I guess it really depends on what kind of system you run, if you have a monster pc, then everything looks good performance-wise doesn't it?
#3
06/13/2009 (10:36 am)
looks nice, whats with the multiple language thing in the end lol. 
#4
06/13/2009 (11:12 am)
@OmegaDog - It would be good to see your results if you add one low LOD on the buildings in your village. That lowest LOD should consist of a single mesh and only needs to look good from about the distance of the fortress.
#5
@Florian - Its a Mid-range(in turns that $6000.00 dollar boxes are really powerful) $2999.00 No extreme Processor Pre X58-I7 so its not brand new about a year+6 old. The dual 9600GT are sweet but some 8800GT where better in my opinion.
www.bitSlap.me/MyStats.pdf
@Thanhda - lol, Just a small list of countries/people I know that are active in Torque or 3D. Just showing greets!
@Tom - will do! :)
06/13/2009 (2:56 pm)
@Konrad Thanks, and yes by time of release and art that is prepped for games the Torque3D engine will be flying AAA style.@Florian - Its a Mid-range(in turns that $6000.00 dollar boxes are really powerful) $2999.00 No extreme Processor Pre X58-I7 so its not brand new about a year+6 old. The dual 9600GT are sweet but some 8800GT where better in my opinion.
www.bitSlap.me/MyStats.pdf
@Thanhda - lol, Just a small list of countries/people I know that are active in Torque or 3D. Just showing greets!
@Tom - will do! :)
#6
3-in-1 Video
Even if you seen the Dev video already this one shows how 4 lights can make the walls stick out and say "Hello!"
1) Slow FlyBy
2) Faster FlyBy
3) Up close on the LOD that was used.
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/88bewQBQ_A4&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
If you were worried about the shadow system and distance-> enjoy!
Video of Third Person on the PolySoup terrain notice the seamless transitions of Player, Shadows, Foliage. The terrain needs a detail texture but I did not take the time to find a good match and add it, if I did its only about 5 Clicks in Torque3D to add it. I don't know if the artist ever new a BoomBot would be running around on his model the smother the terrain the better it does pretty good since BoomBot's stride is fast paced.
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/k_OjPxeewYE&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
06/13/2009 (11:40 pm)
Updated Dev Video, LOD on desert and I get a solid 40fps in game play, I wish you could see it like I do! but with Fraps(video capture) bandwidth has performance hits not related to the level size.3-in-1 Video
Even if you seen the Dev video already this one shows how 4 lights can make the walls stick out and say "Hello!"
1) Slow FlyBy
2) Faster FlyBy
3) Up close on the LOD that was used.
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/88bewQBQ_A4&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
If you were worried about the shadow system and distance-> enjoy!
Video of Third Person on the PolySoup terrain notice the seamless transitions of Player, Shadows, Foliage. The terrain needs a detail texture but I did not take the time to find a good match and add it, if I did its only about 5 Clicks in Torque3D to add it. I don't know if the artist ever new a BoomBot would be running around on his model the smother the terrain the better it does pretty good since BoomBot's stride is fast paced.
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/k_OjPxeewYE&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
#7
06/14/2009 (1:12 am)
Great videos!!! Keep 'em coming! They really help the late-night-weekend-churning :)
#8
06/14/2009 (1:55 pm)
Can't wait to play Legions with maps like this :)
#9
What did you hate about Collada? What could be improved about the current pipeline?
Couldn't really follow this. What exactly was the problem, and how would you prefer that it worked?
06/14/2009 (4:55 pm)
Quote:Collada I love it and I hate it! Long live DTS exporters!
What did you hate about Collada? What could be improved about the current pipeline?
Quote:diffuse by artist and normal by me but still at the art level :( Collada insisted or I would get undesired results without manually editing the material.cs that is created
Couldn't really follow this. What exactly was the problem, and how would you prefer that it worked?
#10
In the material editor it all looks perfect but the render looks like it has lost some assignment! In the material editor there is no GLOW set on any of the material loaded for the Fortress Model, DTS does not do this and thats the difference.
EDIT: I also prefer DTS exporter naming of materials.
06/14/2009 (5:38 pm)
Well Chris its like this, this model uses sub materials in max 17 of them. The First Sub is the main texture it gets complicated but Torque3D understands it. But when I exit edit the material.cs by adding the line normalMap[0]="TEXTURE_NRM"; Load it back up and I get this:In the material editor it all looks perfect but the render looks like it has lost some assignment! In the material editor there is no GLOW set on any of the material loaded for the Fortress Model, DTS does not do this and thats the difference.
EDIT: I also prefer DTS exporter naming of materials.
#11
1,012,000 Polys and Counting!
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/1LTXtNYRhJM&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
06/14/2009 (6:00 pm)
@Brett - I can't wait for the Torque Pros to start showing off Torque3D either, Legions will be most awesome indeed!1,012,000 Polys and Counting!
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/1LTXtNYRhJM&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
#12
I'd like to hear what happens to this level on an average comp. thx.
06/14/2009 (6:55 pm)
Omegadog, Have you run these same tests on a regular P4 2.2/2.6 with 1 9600GT or something near these specs ? I'd like to hear what happens to this level on an average comp. thx.
#13
It's great to see you all pushing on the tech this early. I'd encourage everyone to give breaking it their best shot. It's always helpful to find out where the limits are.
06/14/2009 (7:03 pm)
Cool stuff OD. Did you try to do this in TGEA at all? It would be really interesting to see the comparison. It's great to see you all pushing on the tech this early. I'd encourage everyone to give breaking it their best shot. It's always helpful to find out where the limits are.
#14
Notice how your total draw call count was under 2000 where before you were at 3000 to 4000+ at almost all times. Using LOD to keep your total draw calls under 2000 is key to getting good performance as 2 to 3GHz CPUs cannot do much more and perform well.
06/14/2009 (8:13 pm)
@Omegadog - Great looking results. Thanks for testing that with LOD on those distant buildings... as you can see it makes a huge difference.Notice how your total draw call count was under 2000 where before you were at 3000 to 4000+ at almost all times. Using LOD to keep your total draw calls under 2000 is key to getting good performance as 2 to 3GHz CPUs cannot do much more and perform well.
#15
Thanks Tom, and yes I am now a true believer in LOD, I am loding the Fortress now, a must see indeed.
@eb - Ask and you shall receive.
Best I could do is BIOS force Cores 2-4 Off and Disable SLI
Single Core 2.69
Single 9600GT
Proof! Task Manager List # of cores when there are more than one so this is true single core less than a two core DUO or a two core Core2.
Note: The desert scene is MIA I was moving on to a new scene when you requested a test. To give you a comparison CPU power the video conversion took 20 minuets longer than it does on my boxes normal configuration!
Now feel the Power! 1,002,000 in Fortresses alone!
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/sV1kDwgO7IQ&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
I can do the Weee! Video over if you wish!
Come join the Fun Torque3D is superb.
The dogs rating:
06/14/2009 (9:17 pm)
Thanks Brett, and no I never thought about purchasing art for TGEA just used Constructor and DTS for small props and characters!Thanks Tom, and yes I am now a true believer in LOD, I am loding the Fortress now, a must see indeed.
@eb - Ask and you shall receive.
Best I could do is BIOS force Cores 2-4 Off and Disable SLI
Single Core 2.69
Single 9600GT
Proof! Task Manager List # of cores when there are more than one so this is true single core less than a two core DUO or a two core Core2.
Note: The desert scene is MIA I was moving on to a new scene when you requested a test. To give you a comparison CPU power the video conversion took 20 minuets longer than it does on my boxes normal configuration!
Now feel the Power! 1,002,000 in Fortresses alone!
AutoHD Link www.youtube.com/v/sV1kDwgO7IQ&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1
I can do the Weee! Video over if you wish!
Come join the Fun Torque3D is superb.
The dogs rating:
#16
06/14/2009 (11:21 pm)
Nice test there. By the videos it seems this was just a walk in the park for T3D. Seemed to handle all them polys just find despite using Fraps.Quote:Omegadog, Have you run these same tests on a regular P4 2.2/2.6 with 1 9600GT or something near these specs ?eb man, you need to upgrade your computer :p
I'd like to hear what happens to this level on an average comp. thx.
#17
-Thanks OmegaDog, I appreciate the effort! Much obliged.
06/15/2009 (5:21 am)
-HAH! I do have two p4 computers at the house! 1 testing ground comp and 1 the little lady uses for surfing. I don't want to talk about my developer machines...as to avoid someone getting so excited their h3aD m4y exploded! :X ..j/k.. I have something close to OD's setup.-Thanks OmegaDog, I appreciate the effort! Much obliged.
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