Torque 3D 1.2 - Pricing Revealed
by Derek Bronson · 10/07/2011 (1:27 pm) · 308 comments
Welcome back to another Torque 3D 1.2 Friday. Last week I discussed some of the additional documentation that is going on for Torque 3D 1.2, you can read about it here. This week I am revealing the pricing regarding the update to 1.2 as most of you have been pretty curious in your blog responses. We tried our best to deliver what we believe to be a “no brainer” price to upgrade to Torque 3D 1.2 and I truly feel that the prices we have come up with compared to the value being delivered lives up to that no “brainer statement”. So without further ado:
| New Customer | $179 |
| Torque 3D Binary Owner | $69 |
| Torque 3D Pro Owner | $49 |
| Torque 3D Binary Studio Owner | $40 per seat |
| Torque 3D Pro Studio Owner | $20 per seat |
As with our other products, starting on the 17th these prices reflect a Full Source Professional Studio License. If you want more information on the move to Studio Licenses I would recommend reading over Eric’s blog that he posted a couple of weeks ago.
Buy Torque 3D 1.1 Now Before 1.2 Ships
If you haven't already purchased Torque 3D then now is the best time to pick it up or to purchase extra seats for your studio. Purchasing a license now saves you $31 over waiting for 1.2 to arrive. The base price for Torque 3D changes on October 17th so clock is ticking.
If you were about to purchase an upgrade to Pro or to convert your license to Studio but were worried about 1.2 being around the corner, don’t be! There is no penalty for upgrading/converting now, in fact it is an easy way to split up the cost of the upgrade to 1.2 depending on what type of license you have.
Also, all people that purchase Torque 3D 1.1 after the price increase on October 17th, will receive Torque 3D 1.2 for free.
Next week I’ll be going over some of the art packs that we will be releasing alongside Torque 3D 1.2 so I’ll make up for my lack of images there :) For now though its back to seeing what QA has dug up so we can get this release out to the world as soon as possible. I try to do my best to add things to the Q&A if any such questions appear in the blog responses.
Quick Q&A
Q: Will the tutorial be free or is it part of 1.2?
A: The tutorial will be available for free on the website but will require Torque 3D 1.2 to get the most out of it
Q: Can we still purchase Torque 3D 1.1 seats or upgrade our existing accounts to Studio after 1.2?
A: Yes, Studio Seats and Studio Conversions will be available for 1.1 users after 1.2 launches. Studio Conversions will remain at $29 but new seats will be at the new price of $179 after October 17th.
Torque 3D 1.2 Development Blogs:
- Introduction
- Chinatown
- Turrets, Proximity Mines and Teleporters oh my!
- Disembodied Arms
- Disembodied Arms, Part Deux
- Tutorial Revealed
- Additional Documentation
- Torque 3D 1.2 Pricing
- Alien Character Pack - Coming Soon!
#102
No.
10/09/2011 (1:43 am)
Paid for TGEA, AFX CoreTech for TGEA , Torsion, T3D Pro (800$) - and now again for a update? No.
#103
I tried on my old laptop with an 9800gt and version 260 and still no such issue. But that doesn't mean anything, only that I don't get this problem on that machine and driver.
However, you can try the latest beta drivers for XP:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-285.38-beta-driver.html
..
Oh, and remember to choose the "clean install" option. As an old beta tester I've sometimes noticed that the drivers can reverse internal flags (even on official releases, but only in very rare cases) That in turn can lead to very weird issues.
Here is hoping that it helps.
--------
@Markus:
You *do* realize that it's a new company right?
..and AFX CoreTech & Torsion are not made by GG either.
Rant//
Sometimes I wonder what these tensions are all about. One one hand some are more than willing to spend 15$/month on WoW or Eve etc.. but when it comes to software that they actually *do* something with, *then* all of a sudden it's an issue. I really don't get that.
//Rant
10/09/2011 (1:57 am)
@Thomas:I tried on my old laptop with an 9800gt and version 260 and still no such issue. But that doesn't mean anything, only that I don't get this problem on that machine and driver.
However, you can try the latest beta drivers for XP:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-285.38-beta-driver.html
..
Oh, and remember to choose the "clean install" option. As an old beta tester I've sometimes noticed that the drivers can reverse internal flags (even on official releases, but only in very rare cases) That in turn can lead to very weird issues.
Here is hoping that it helps.
--------
@Markus:
You *do* realize that it's a new company right?
..and AFX CoreTech & Torsion are not made by GG either.
Rant//
Sometimes I wonder what these tensions are all about. One one hand some are more than willing to spend 15$/month on WoW or Eve etc.. but when it comes to software that they actually *do* something with, *then* all of a sudden it's an issue. I really don't get that.
//Rant
#104
150k for quality art, even if it was contracted out? Could have taken a year or so with several employees. Well worth the $20 upgrade (under studio).
10/09/2011 (6:14 am)
Sometimes bringing old brand names back to life in a new company, often brings back the past bad reputation with the good. Maybe there should be a caption under the logo just to remind people that GG is now "a new company, and under new management". The past is gone, time to move forward.150k for quality art, even if it was contracted out? Could have taken a year or so with several employees. Well worth the $20 upgrade (under studio).
#105
After browsing through the Welcome Back GarageGames blog I thought that it was mentioned in comment #287 but I seem to be misinterpreting things. Don't know if it was mentioned anywhere else in this blog, cause I lack the desire to read this old blog again. Sorry ;)
10/09/2011 (6:33 am)
@Eric Preisz:Quote:Let me know if you can track down what you are remembering specifically.
After browsing through the Welcome Back GarageGames blog I thought that it was mentioned in comment #287 but I seem to be misinterpreting things. Don't know if it was mentioned anywhere else in this blog, cause I lack the desire to read this old blog again. Sorry ;)
#106
Obviously the whole point is that GG pays the upfront cost and our customers pay a small fraction and everyone benefits from the economies of scale.
As for a feature list and resolved bug fix list, that's what we've been doing with these rolling blogs. I'll get with Derek on Monday to see how he wants to present that info to you guys if he doesn't post something before then.
10/09/2011 (7:40 am)
Just to clarify. We paid 100k for the original Chinatown level. That was a deal that was in place before I started. We then put around fifteen man months of work polishing and adding art. The total number would be surely be higher. Not trying to make some major point, I just don't appreciate being called a liar...that's a big deal for me.Obviously the whole point is that GG pays the upfront cost and our customers pay a small fraction and everyone benefits from the economies of scale.
As for a feature list and resolved bug fix list, that's what we've been doing with these rolling blogs. I'll get with Derek on Monday to see how he wants to present that info to you guys if he doesn't post something before then.
#107
I only say this, because the people complaining about their 1k are being told to remember that that cost was to an old company, well in fairness it needs to work both ways. The worth of the art needs to come out of what the current company has put into it.
Also, you do not need to reveal what things cost your company, that is just bad form. Garage Games' job is to provide a product that warrants us wanting to spend our money.
I understand what you guys are attempting to do with the rolling blogs, however I think the point is being missed. None of the blogs have given us a change log / bug fix list, they have shown us some pretty art, and a few new features. The consensus that I am getting is, "Yeah the paint job is pretty, but what is under the hood?"
The last time the GG community got in an uproar like this, it wasn't all that long before it almost went belly up. I hope that won't happen again, I would enjoy some stability.
10/09/2011 (8:01 am)
So seeing how China Town has been "around" for around 2 years, I am assuming that the 100k paid for the original level was paid for at the beginning, which was under previous management? If so, then that big 100k needs to come off what you are telling us does it not?I only say this, because the people complaining about their 1k are being told to remember that that cost was to an old company, well in fairness it needs to work both ways. The worth of the art needs to come out of what the current company has put into it.
Also, you do not need to reveal what things cost your company, that is just bad form. Garage Games' job is to provide a product that warrants us wanting to spend our money.
I understand what you guys are attempting to do with the rolling blogs, however I think the point is being missed. None of the blogs have given us a change log / bug fix list, they have shown us some pretty art, and a few new features. The consensus that I am getting is, "Yeah the paint job is pretty, but what is under the hood?"
The last time the GG community got in an uproar like this, it wasn't all that long before it almost went belly up. I hope that won't happen again, I would enjoy some stability.
#108
I'm not really reading it like 'But guuuuuuys, we paid like, 150 grand for this!'.
I'm reading it more as a 'This is about $150 grand worth of art in this level, because that's the ballpark of what we paid to get it made'.
It's less a flaunting what it costs and more abiding by their point earlier that it's got $150,000 of art behind it. People didn't think that was true, so he was stating a point that that must be about what it's worth, since they paid that much for it.
Seems pretty sensible to me.
Again, it seems like a lot of gruff going on is because we haven't seen the change log yet. That, and that people recently snagged the studio upgrade price, and immediately have to turn around and drop an extra $20.
I'd almost say it would make more sense to throw the features and bug fixes free as the 1.2 update, and then any relevant assets involved being in a art pack. I don't personally care either way, but that seems to be a less confusing way to go about it(and would calm the people pissed off about having to pay for a 'bugfix release'.
10/09/2011 (8:26 am)
Richard,I'm not really reading it like 'But guuuuuuys, we paid like, 150 grand for this!'.
I'm reading it more as a 'This is about $150 grand worth of art in this level, because that's the ballpark of what we paid to get it made'.
It's less a flaunting what it costs and more abiding by their point earlier that it's got $150,000 of art behind it. People didn't think that was true, so he was stating a point that that must be about what it's worth, since they paid that much for it.
Seems pretty sensible to me.
Again, it seems like a lot of gruff going on is because we haven't seen the change log yet. That, and that people recently snagged the studio upgrade price, and immediately have to turn around and drop an extra $20.
I'd almost say it would make more sense to throw the features and bug fixes free as the 1.2 update, and then any relevant assets involved being in a art pack. I don't personally care either way, but that seems to be a less confusing way to go about it(and would calm the people pissed off about having to pay for a 'bugfix release'.
#109
T3D killed my Mac, i'm mainly using bootcamped Windows.
It is advertised as "With deployment paths to PC, Mac, [...]".
Where's the Mac deployment path?
10/09/2011 (9:32 am)
I'd gladly pay 20$, if I could use it on my Mac.T3D killed my Mac, i'm mainly using bootcamped Windows.
It is advertised as "With deployment paths to PC, Mac, [...]".
Where's the Mac deployment path?
#110
10/09/2011 (10:10 am)
@Eric Preisz: Please, read post #56. What do you think about? 
#111
So, essentially, I am being forced into paying for a Studio License conversion to be able to even receive the engine update ? I hope this is not the case. You drop the price to $99 to bring in alot of new blood, then tack on a Studio License conversion fee to get updates several months down the road....That seems very underhanded.
I have no problem at all with paying $20 for the update, It looks great. However, don't force a new license and the cost of the license, down my throat just to get it. We already have a way to convert a license. Leave it out of the updates please. This is an engine update.
10/09/2011 (11:21 am)
So, what I see from the pricing list here is that Torque 3D Pro owners have to pay $49. That also changes them to a studio license. The other Torque 3D Pro owners that have a studio license only pay $20.So, essentially, I am being forced into paying for a Studio License conversion to be able to even receive the engine update ? I hope this is not the case. You drop the price to $99 to bring in alot of new blood, then tack on a Studio License conversion fee to get updates several months down the road....That seems very underhanded.
I have no problem at all with paying $20 for the update, It looks great. However, don't force a new license and the cost of the license, down my throat just to get it. We already have a way to convert a license. Leave it out of the updates please. This is an engine update.
#112
I have been reading all these messages and i'm very suprised, WHY GG company is doing mostly art work for sale, instead bugs fixing and so on. this is ridiculous. i hope guys, you know what are you doing.
10/09/2011 (11:48 am)
By the way, UDK is free for development ). + royalty if you had succeded. But the most important thing is you may use ready-for-production a very powerfull engine for free.I have been reading all these messages and i'm very suprised, WHY GG company is doing mostly art work for sale, instead bugs fixing and so on. this is ridiculous. i hope guys, you know what are you doing.
#113
I'd just like some clarification.. I paid ~$500 (IIRC) in 2009 to upgrade from TGEA to T3D during beta. That same product is now worth $99, will soon be worth $179, and I'll have to pay $49 for the upgrade to 1.2. There's no upgrade discount or anything for the early adopters who paid a considerable amount more for T3D Pro?
Cheers
10/09/2011 (12:07 pm)
In terms of pricing for T3D, I've been out of the loop for quite a while. I'm seeing all of these different product names with different prices, and I'm not really understanding it.I'd just like some clarification.. I paid ~$500 (IIRC) in 2009 to upgrade from TGEA to T3D during beta. That same product is now worth $99, will soon be worth $179, and I'll have to pay $49 for the upgrade to 1.2. There's no upgrade discount or anything for the early adopters who paid a considerable amount more for T3D Pro?
Cheers
#114
To spread the cost you can get a Studio Licence Now ($29) and pay the $20 when 1.2 is out
10/09/2011 (12:49 pm)
@Don Meline Jr. No, you pay $49 for the 1.2 update or IF you have a studio licence you pay $20.To spread the cost you can get a Studio Licence Now ($29) and pay the $20 when 1.2 is out
#115
On the other hand, I can agree with the standpoint of those who say they don't want to pay for the features they won't use, in order to get the bug fixes they need. There has to be some mechanism that provides the bug fixes, and I don't mean search the forums and hope you find a relevant fix that you can then implement yourself. Maybe it would make sense to separate the bug fixes from the added featureset of 1.2. Make an updated installer for 1.1 that includes the bug fixes, and don't charge for it. Make the 1.2 installer contain the bug fixes plus the added features, and charge for it. Then all they'll have to complain about is that we have a higher version number than they do.
10/09/2011 (12:53 pm)
I'd pay $50 for the tutorial alone (and the assets that go with it), whether they call it an engine update or not. I'm one of those who have been awaiting a complete end-to-end "best practices" tutorial for a long time. I don't usually have a lot of time to invest, so taking the time to learn something on my own and then forgetting it because I wasn't able to touch the engine again for a couple months really sucks. So if they come up with an RTS tutorial and call it 1.3, an RPG tutorial and call it 1.4, and so on and so forth, I'll pay $50 each time and be happy about it. When I finally have the time to invest in actually making a game, the knowledge that they charged me in increments of $50 will be there, and I won't have to spend hours and hours digging through the forums, TDN, Google, etc. to do the simple things I want to do.On the other hand, I can agree with the standpoint of those who say they don't want to pay for the features they won't use, in order to get the bug fixes they need. There has to be some mechanism that provides the bug fixes, and I don't mean search the forums and hope you find a relevant fix that you can then implement yourself. Maybe it would make sense to separate the bug fixes from the added featureset of 1.2. Make an updated installer for 1.1 that includes the bug fixes, and don't charge for it. Make the 1.2 installer contain the bug fixes plus the added features, and charge for it. Then all they'll have to complain about is that we have a higher version number than they do.
#116
10/09/2011 (1:03 pm)
@Joe Melton, your second paragraph i agree with whole heartedly and is what I would like to see.
#117
P.S. Please give RPG games (new features/tutorials) some love too!
10/09/2011 (1:12 pm)
I think I'm glad I don't own Garage Games...difficult decisions to make. No matter what is done, you can never please all the people all the time. Still, I think much of what people are saying is true, none of which needs to be re-hashed. I'll be one who upgrades. I don't see how it is possible for 1.2 not to be worth the upgrade price. Still, and finally, I hope that the Eric(s) seriously consider some of the points raised here, especially the one whereby there is an *easy*, free path to get to the latest, most bug-free version of whatever release you happen to own. P.S. Please give RPG games (new features/tutorials) some love too!
#118
"As with our other products, starting on the 17th these prices reflect a Full Source Professional Studio License."
This says to me that I DO get converted to a Studio License and the price difference reflects the cost of converting.
I don't recall anywhere saying that Studio licenses get cheaper updates. The Pro Individual and Pro Studio Licenses both use the same engine. Why can't both of those get the ENGINE update for the same price ?
10/09/2011 (2:30 pm)
@David Pemberton it states under the pricing chart:"As with our other products, starting on the 17th these prices reflect a Full Source Professional Studio License."
This says to me that I DO get converted to a Studio License and the price difference reflects the cost of converting.
I don't recall anywhere saying that Studio licenses get cheaper updates. The Pro Individual and Pro Studio Licenses both use the same engine. Why can't both of those get the ENGINE update for the same price ?
#119
Overall I am very pleased with the assets and tutorials heading our way. Even if you do not plan on using there assets they make excellent placeholders until others have been created. I am not an artist at all so I will take all of the assets that I can get. One day my modeling skills will improve but that will take a while.
10/09/2011 (2:49 pm)
@Valentin They have stated that in the process of making all of the art assets and tutorials they have discovered and fixed many bugs. I think that this is an awsome way of testing the engine. They get to see first hand the problems that we have been running into and then fix them.Overall I am very pleased with the assets and tutorials heading our way. Even if you do not plan on using there assets they make excellent placeholders until others have been created. I am not an artist at all so I will take all of the assets that I can get. One day my modeling skills will improve but that will take a while.
#120
I have no idea what GG pays it's developers, but based on industry averages your $20 update is paying for about 25 man-minutes of development time.
If this company is to only make money from new customers and separate content packs, how can you expect them to commit much time to fixing bugs in the core engine? They can't do that and stay in business.
I do think an annual update subscription, possibly with repo access for faster roll outs, would make more sense and is the general practice. But I don't think it would change much of the complaining. Based on what I've seen here over the years, people would just complain that they didn't get enough updates for their subscription, regardless of how many updates they got. At least it would be less ambiguous and allow people to plan ahead instead of having to monitor blog posts to figure out when they'll need to pony up more cash.
10/09/2011 (4:09 pm)
Personally I don't have a problem with paid updates, even for bug fixes. Fixing bugs costs money, too. I have no idea what GG pays it's developers, but based on industry averages your $20 update is paying for about 25 man-minutes of development time.
If this company is to only make money from new customers and separate content packs, how can you expect them to commit much time to fixing bugs in the core engine? They can't do that and stay in business.
I do think an annual update subscription, possibly with repo access for faster roll outs, would make more sense and is the general practice. But I don't think it would change much of the complaining. Based on what I've seen here over the years, people would just complain that they didn't get enough updates for their subscription, regardless of how many updates they got. At least it would be less ambiguous and allow people to plan ahead instead of having to monitor blog posts to figure out when they'll need to pony up more cash.
close this account please
That must be the cost incurred from start to end of dev with other projects in between. I work AAA, don't BS a BS'er.
/// Can someone close my account ? The site doesn't allow me to do it on my own. Thank You and GoodBye!