Torque 3D 1.2 - Pricing Revealed
by Derek Bronson · 10/07/2011 (1:27 pm) · 308 comments
Welcome back to another Torque 3D 1.2 Friday. Last week I discussed some of the additional documentation that is going on for Torque 3D 1.2, you can read about it here. This week I am revealing the pricing regarding the update to 1.2 as most of you have been pretty curious in your blog responses. We tried our best to deliver what we believe to be a “no brainer” price to upgrade to Torque 3D 1.2 and I truly feel that the prices we have come up with compared to the value being delivered lives up to that no “brainer statement”. So without further ado:
| New Customer | $179 |
| Torque 3D Binary Owner | $69 |
| Torque 3D Pro Owner | $49 |
| Torque 3D Binary Studio Owner | $40 per seat |
| Torque 3D Pro Studio Owner | $20 per seat |
As with our other products, starting on the 17th these prices reflect a Full Source Professional Studio License. If you want more information on the move to Studio Licenses I would recommend reading over Eric’s blog that he posted a couple of weeks ago.
Buy Torque 3D 1.1 Now Before 1.2 Ships
If you haven't already purchased Torque 3D then now is the best time to pick it up or to purchase extra seats for your studio. Purchasing a license now saves you $31 over waiting for 1.2 to arrive. The base price for Torque 3D changes on October 17th so clock is ticking.
If you were about to purchase an upgrade to Pro or to convert your license to Studio but were worried about 1.2 being around the corner, don’t be! There is no penalty for upgrading/converting now, in fact it is an easy way to split up the cost of the upgrade to 1.2 depending on what type of license you have.
Also, all people that purchase Torque 3D 1.1 after the price increase on October 17th, will receive Torque 3D 1.2 for free.
Next week I’ll be going over some of the art packs that we will be releasing alongside Torque 3D 1.2 so I’ll make up for my lack of images there :) For now though its back to seeing what QA has dug up so we can get this release out to the world as soon as possible. I try to do my best to add things to the Q&A if any such questions appear in the blog responses.
Quick Q&A
Q: Will the tutorial be free or is it part of 1.2?
A: The tutorial will be available for free on the website but will require Torque 3D 1.2 to get the most out of it
Q: Can we still purchase Torque 3D 1.1 seats or upgrade our existing accounts to Studio after 1.2?
A: Yes, Studio Seats and Studio Conversions will be available for 1.1 users after 1.2 launches. Studio Conversions will remain at $29 but new seats will be at the new price of $179 after October 17th.
Torque 3D 1.2 Development Blogs:
- Introduction
- Chinatown
- Turrets, Proximity Mines and Teleporters oh my!
- Disembodied Arms
- Disembodied Arms, Part Deux
- Tutorial Revealed
- Additional Documentation
- Torque 3D 1.2 Pricing
- Alien Character Pack - Coming Soon!
#22
The target market however...
Old, loyal customers have to pay for... what exactly?
The tutorial itself, will be available for free on the website, and is not really a big deal for old customers anyway.
The rather long list of issues that 1.1 shipped with, looks intact. And is not like Im glad to pay for bug fixes, really.
If GG will start charging for point releases, looks like we will be forced to pay for 1.2 if we want 1.3 later on. So not upgrading, as Mich proposses as solution doesn't look like a viable option.
In my humble opinion, current customers should not have to pay for this update, it doesnt look to change much for us.
10/07/2011 (4:00 pm)
The pricing structure looks reasonable.The target market however...
Old, loyal customers have to pay for... what exactly?
The tutorial itself, will be available for free on the website, and is not really a big deal for old customers anyway.
The rather long list of issues that 1.1 shipped with, looks intact. And is not like Im glad to pay for bug fixes, really.
If GG will start charging for point releases, looks like we will be forced to pay for 1.2 if we want 1.3 later on. So not upgrading, as Mich proposses as solution doesn't look like a viable option.
In my humble opinion, current customers should not have to pay for this update, it doesnt look to change much for us.
#23
Not a bug fix
Not a bug fix
Not a bug fix
Those are all features, which were driven by the tutorial. That's what 1.2 is about.
10/07/2011 (4:05 pm)
Not a bug fixNot a bug fix
Not a bug fix
Not a bug fix
Those are all features, which were driven by the tutorial. That's what 1.2 is about.
#24
10/07/2011 (4:06 pm)
No product can be 100% bug free, so no warranty can be provided. For me paying $20 (under studio) is a good way to ensure that new features, updates and bug fixes are ongoing, even if its a yearly, or twice a year cost. Without it, these guys cannot carry on - even at the new pricing. Engine sales may sustain salaries at some point, but upgrade fees help to pay for new upgrades/fixes.
#25
Quoted for truth. Thank you S2P.
10/07/2011 (4:08 pm)
Quote:No product can be 100% bug free, so no warranty can be provided. For me paying $20 (under studio) is a good way to ensure that new features, updates and bug fixes are ongoing, even if its a yearly, or twice a year cost. Without it, these guys cannot carry on - even at the new pricing. Engine sales may sustain salaries at some point, but upgrade fees help to pay for new upgrades/fixes.
Quoted for truth. Thank you S2P.
#26
Edit: you'd probably pay more for a content pack.
10/07/2011 (4:19 pm)
From what I can tell in the previous blogs, there will be artwork assets added to the 1.2 release, in addition to the FPS tutorials - even if these are made free to use in 1.1, you'll not have the art to use them anyway, so in theory, apart from the art / China Town / bug fixes and more? well worth the $20 - where do I pay?Edit: you'd probably pay more for a content pack.
#27
With that said, you should walk away now, like you said you would do weeks ago (and the year before that).
10/07/2011 (4:20 pm)
@E.B. - They are all features we wrote. Chinatown is more than just a couple of models. An entire level with a huge amount of assets. A lot of work went into it. All of the scripts are coming along for the ride, plus more functionality. Also, the tutorial is a huge part and worth every penny.With that said, you should walk away now, like you said you would do weeks ago (and the year before that).
#28
It seems, that the best way is to wait for serveral versions before buying the next update.
10/07/2011 (4:26 pm)
GG seems to be resistent against learning. I can only shake one's head in disbelief. It seems, that the best way is to wait for serveral versions before buying the next update.
#29
Toruqe 3D has been evolving at a crazy pace. The number of bugfixes in 1.1 paled everyone, need I remember you? It was also free. Yes, I know it was a bug fix version - but it also was a new stable pseudo-major version. All this despite the fact that the company is now full of fresh new faces. Hiring new people tends to slow progress. We all know what Torque's learning curve is like so it's a miracle that these guys picked things up this fast. Best of all, they at this very moment are working on flattening that exact curve.
Also, there are no features without fixing bugs.. The more new features you get the more bugs become squashed. Let me point out that 1.2 is the first version of Torque 3D where an actual game is made through a tutorial. A specific game that, on one hand, required existing bugs to be fixed, but also many new features.
So, let's see.. Most of us paid many hundreds of dollars for an early adopter version. And now you grumble over a $20 upgrade? When was the last time you spent money on this engine? Yes, i know you bought it and your warranty says you get bugfixes for free. And you did. We got more bugfixes for free that we could have ever imagined. We also got tonns of new features. I didnt hear you guys complaining about that.
I understand that you feel like your frustration has a basis, but to me it just feels like you are ruining my birthday. I am extremely happy about how Torque 3D is evolving and how cheap it is for me to put my hands on new features that would probably cost several hundreds as paid packs. I am also very glad that the entire engine is becoming more accessible to new developers which we should be even happier about because this is what guarantees future bugfixes for our games. (Not to mention additional sales for 3rd party content creators!)
If you have a game created as a product in a business then you understand how important this is.
Furthermore, you are not required to upgrade. You are not forced into a position where there is no other way but to upgrade. You can buy 1.1 studio licenses if you prefer this version. I probably would have made everyone need to upgrade with the studio licenses if only to avoid fragmentation, but they did not.
All in all, you might have a point. I just dont see it.
I might be an associate but I usually use this badge to criticize. This is one of those times, when the one to be criticized should be you. I don't see how they could have done the past one year any better, and I'm being disturbingly honest here. Please have the decency to commend them on their actions and their progress when they deserve it.
Well done, GG, and thank you for the friendly fees!
10/07/2011 (4:39 pm)
@Thomas, EB: I have to side with Mitch and GG on this one.Toruqe 3D has been evolving at a crazy pace. The number of bugfixes in 1.1 paled everyone, need I remember you? It was also free. Yes, I know it was a bug fix version - but it also was a new stable pseudo-major version. All this despite the fact that the company is now full of fresh new faces. Hiring new people tends to slow progress. We all know what Torque's learning curve is like so it's a miracle that these guys picked things up this fast. Best of all, they at this very moment are working on flattening that exact curve.
Also, there are no features without fixing bugs.. The more new features you get the more bugs become squashed. Let me point out that 1.2 is the first version of Torque 3D where an actual game is made through a tutorial. A specific game that, on one hand, required existing bugs to be fixed, but also many new features.
So, let's see.. Most of us paid many hundreds of dollars for an early adopter version. And now you grumble over a $20 upgrade? When was the last time you spent money on this engine? Yes, i know you bought it and your warranty says you get bugfixes for free. And you did. We got more bugfixes for free that we could have ever imagined. We also got tonns of new features. I didnt hear you guys complaining about that.
I understand that you feel like your frustration has a basis, but to me it just feels like you are ruining my birthday. I am extremely happy about how Torque 3D is evolving and how cheap it is for me to put my hands on new features that would probably cost several hundreds as paid packs. I am also very glad that the entire engine is becoming more accessible to new developers which we should be even happier about because this is what guarantees future bugfixes for our games. (Not to mention additional sales for 3rd party content creators!)
If you have a game created as a product in a business then you understand how important this is.
Furthermore, you are not required to upgrade. You are not forced into a position where there is no other way but to upgrade. You can buy 1.1 studio licenses if you prefer this version. I probably would have made everyone need to upgrade with the studio licenses if only to avoid fragmentation, but they did not.
All in all, you might have a point. I just dont see it.
I might be an associate but I usually use this badge to criticize. This is one of those times, when the one to be criticized should be you. I don't see how they could have done the past one year any better, and I'm being disturbingly honest here. Please have the decency to commend them on their actions and their progress when they deserve it.
Well done, GG, and thank you for the friendly fees!
#30
Im am surprised when people do not realize that GG is a company that needs to make money to be able to stay in business.
Its a small price to pay for what seems to be some outstanding work.
Great Job Guys
---Surge----
10/07/2011 (5:00 pm)
Well said Konrad. Im am surprised when people do not realize that GG is a company that needs to make money to be able to stay in business.
Its a small price to pay for what seems to be some outstanding work.
Great Job Guys
---Surge----
#31
10/07/2011 (5:02 pm)
Well, I dont agree with all Mich's and Konrad's arguments, but for the most part I do. Also, for the sake of supporting GG, keeping the energy impulse that has driven the company forward since the last aquisition, and keeping the peace around, I would like to change my opinion into: Ok, lets go with it. Its really not a harsh step. From all the promises I've heard past years here, this are the people from who I believe them. 
#32
10/07/2011 (5:05 pm)
Bummer, I have to pay for a studio seat to upgrade :( I recently bought T3D and can't afford studio and upgrade atm. Oh well, I can still dig through the new docs which look awesome btw !! 
#33
Can't you just split off the tutorial, art, assets, and other nonsense into a standalone product and roll the new features and bugfixes into the existing codebase? I've already forked over $1000 to buy the engine (and couldn't really do all that much development with it given its largely broken state -- at least until around 1.0 anyway) only to have you guys drop the price on me (which seemed like a bit of a slap in the face).
Being asked to pay more for a bunch of stuff I'm not going to use -- just to get access to the bug fixes and features -- especially when there are some things in the engine that are still broken -- and most likely won't get fixed if you're essentially creating a user branch at this point.
I've been a long time member of this community and have gotten every 3D version of the engine that's come out, but this sort of stuff has me seriously questioning why. There are other engines out there with less bugs and more features...
10/07/2011 (5:12 pm)
Wow... More price gouging for stuff not everyone wants or is going to use. How... unusual.Can't you just split off the tutorial, art, assets, and other nonsense into a standalone product and roll the new features and bugfixes into the existing codebase? I've already forked over $1000 to buy the engine (and couldn't really do all that much development with it given its largely broken state -- at least until around 1.0 anyway) only to have you guys drop the price on me (which seemed like a bit of a slap in the face).
Being asked to pay more for a bunch of stuff I'm not going to use -- just to get access to the bug fixes and features -- especially when there are some things in the engine that are still broken -- and most likely won't get fixed if you're essentially creating a user branch at this point.
I've been a long time member of this community and have gotten every 3D version of the engine that's come out, but this sort of stuff has me seriously questioning why. There are other engines out there with less bugs and more features...
#34
what I do have issue with is having sunk as Konrad indicated many hundreds of dollars already into this engine, personally I think it would have been nice touch to give the 1.2 away free to those who purchased before the January 90% price drop and charged thereafter. It really wouldn't be much but would have been a nice touch to reinforce that existing consumer base whose confidence was severely rocked with the near to shut down of GG.
The ship may be righted for now but for how long will it stay so?
Based on some of the sentiments posted and many who probably won't it looks as if GG has effectively split its existing customer base down the center, and that's not likely going to be a good way of staying viable for too terribly long.
Just as an interesting fact on the state of the community last year there was something like (edit for correct time frame Jan-Oct 2010 to Jan-Oct 2011 ): 490 blogs posted on this site. this year since the near collapse there was something close to 360 blogs. (dont believe me check for yourself there are 10 blogs per page) Nearly a %25 decrease.
what is GG doing to bring back those customers and get them willing to support you again and pony up their $20 for upgrades? Charging for the first update since the collapse I at least dont see will bring back those customers. Can GG really afford to lose another half? Can GG stay viable in the long run by considering the market is flooding with alternative options? These are questions I need to answer for myself before I buy and i cant take it on purely on faith. Sure the weekly blog updates shows some features, but we all can remember other "features" GG paraded in front of us on blogs and know how that turned out.
All and all I will probably spend the $20 but only because i truly want to see GG succeed, i have been following this engine since early 2000 and finally bought in 06 so it has been many many years, but all I can say is if I get burned again it will likely be the final straw to break this camels back.
10/07/2011 (5:34 pm)
$20 really isnt much, (ok so I have to make my Folgers coffee at home for the next 4 days instead of my ritual morning double shot Carmel macchiato),what I do have issue with is having sunk as Konrad indicated many hundreds of dollars already into this engine, personally I think it would have been nice touch to give the 1.2 away free to those who purchased before the January 90% price drop and charged thereafter. It really wouldn't be much but would have been a nice touch to reinforce that existing consumer base whose confidence was severely rocked with the near to shut down of GG.
The ship may be righted for now but for how long will it stay so?
Based on some of the sentiments posted and many who probably won't it looks as if GG has effectively split its existing customer base down the center, and that's not likely going to be a good way of staying viable for too terribly long.
Just as an interesting fact on the state of the community last year there was something like (edit for correct time frame Jan-Oct 2010 to Jan-Oct 2011 ): 490 blogs posted on this site. this year since the near collapse there was something close to 360 blogs. (dont believe me check for yourself there are 10 blogs per page) Nearly a %25 decrease.
what is GG doing to bring back those customers and get them willing to support you again and pony up their $20 for upgrades? Charging for the first update since the collapse I at least dont see will bring back those customers. Can GG really afford to lose another half? Can GG stay viable in the long run by considering the market is flooding with alternative options? These are questions I need to answer for myself before I buy and i cant take it on purely on faith. Sure the weekly blog updates shows some features, but we all can remember other "features" GG paraded in front of us on blogs and know how that turned out.
All and all I will probably spend the $20 but only because i truly want to see GG succeed, i have been following this engine since early 2000 and finally bought in 06 so it has been many many years, but all I can say is if I get burned again it will likely be the final straw to break this camels back.
#35
We don't post about a feature now unless it's absolutely going to be in.
10/07/2011 (5:42 pm)
@KenWe don't post about a feature now unless it's absolutely going to be in.
#37
Stating that the community will have to pay an additional $20 (for those that already own T3D 1.1 studio) to get access to the new revision of the engine just because your releasing it with new art assets is really a bad idea, as stated above i would release the engine revision to those that currently own T3D at no charge and then separately sell the extra art assets, as you did with the cheetah art pack and player character art pack.
And again as stated above i probably wont use Chinatown or a any of the new art assets that are coming out so if i were to pay the extra $20 for them im effectively paying for some thing i wont be using.
i think focus needs to be shifted on to fixing the problems and bugs with the engine to get it to a stable state before new assets are created.
Please do not start forcing things on your community, its the fastest way to loose us.
10/07/2011 (5:47 pm)
I have to say i agree with Daniel Eden on this Stating that the community will have to pay an additional $20 (for those that already own T3D 1.1 studio) to get access to the new revision of the engine just because your releasing it with new art assets is really a bad idea, as stated above i would release the engine revision to those that currently own T3D at no charge and then separately sell the extra art assets, as you did with the cheetah art pack and player character art pack.
And again as stated above i probably wont use Chinatown or a any of the new art assets that are coming out so if i were to pay the extra $20 for them im effectively paying for some thing i wont be using.
i think focus needs to be shifted on to fixing the problems and bugs with the engine to get it to a stable state before new assets are created.
Please do not start forcing things on your community, its the fastest way to loose us.
#38
We have heard the talk, and as i said i will probably purchase this update, but in all honesty i truly hope that is going to be the case,
but excuse my scepticisim It is difficult to break after 5 years of the same.
"Trust is like a vase.. once it's broken, though you can fix it the vase will never be same again." -Unknown
10/07/2011 (5:53 pm)
@Scott,We have heard the talk, and as i said i will probably purchase this update, but in all honesty i truly hope that is going to be the case,
but excuse my scepticisim It is difficult to break after 5 years of the same.
"Trust is like a vase.. once it's broken, though you can fix it the vase will never be same again." -Unknown
#39
I'm sure, this will be discussed next week, but I'm hoping for an early adopters discount price on the art packs. Maybe, even a T3D 1.2 upgrade + 1/2 price of an art pack.
Thanks
10/07/2011 (5:56 pm)
I'm cool with the pricing as long as I get my money's worth. It's an awesome time for GG. I remember waiting and wondering when something on the site would happen. The weekly updates kickass! Some may or may not be boring to me, but hey it's an update!. I'm sure, this will be discussed next week, but I'm hoping for an early adopters discount price on the art packs. Maybe, even a T3D 1.2 upgrade + 1/2 price of an art pack.
Thanks
#40
The benefits for the new user are more transparent, so let me highlight the benefits for our existing customers:
1) About $150,000 worth of artwork from AAA guys. No kidding.
2) We found a lot of bugs that you wouldn't find if we were just doing sample apps rather than a vertical slice of a game. If you are building demos, then maybe we didn't help you. If you are building a game, we fixed important things. QA is good. Using your products like your customers will is a WAY better to find where your product needs improvement(sorry Scott...)
3) You may think you know what the best practices are, but now you have a GG sanctioned tutorial that spells out in very clear language what we consider best practice. You will be surprised with what the tutorial will teach you.
4) The new features. Anyway you slice it, these features helped us make the best looking vertical slice. They will help you too.
I think that 1.2 is a great deal for both new and old users.
Lastly, we aren't going to force you to update. We can't please every individual and still put out quick releases. If we didn't attract you with 1.2, then no problem, we'll try next time.
Some people really want what we built. We ran two surveys, one on our site and one on GameDev.net and they both pointed to strong interest in a game tutorial. 1.2 IS the result of us listening...but it's hard to please all individuals. (BTW, the survey suggests that majority of people on our site don't post very often)
We don't need to be enemies.
10/07/2011 (5:57 pm)
Listen, this doesn't need to be an us vs. them thing -you have options.The benefits for the new user are more transparent, so let me highlight the benefits for our existing customers:
1) About $150,000 worth of artwork from AAA guys. No kidding.
2) We found a lot of bugs that you wouldn't find if we were just doing sample apps rather than a vertical slice of a game. If you are building demos, then maybe we didn't help you. If you are building a game, we fixed important things. QA is good. Using your products like your customers will is a WAY better to find where your product needs improvement(sorry Scott...)
3) You may think you know what the best practices are, but now you have a GG sanctioned tutorial that spells out in very clear language what we consider best practice. You will be surprised with what the tutorial will teach you.
4) The new features. Anyway you slice it, these features helped us make the best looking vertical slice. They will help you too.
I think that 1.2 is a great deal for both new and old users.
Lastly, we aren't going to force you to update. We can't please every individual and still put out quick releases. If we didn't attract you with 1.2, then no problem, we'll try next time.
Some people really want what we built. We ran two surveys, one on our site and one on GameDev.net and they both pointed to strong interest in a game tutorial. 1.2 IS the result of us listening...but it's hard to please all individuals. (BTW, the survey suggests that majority of people on our site don't post very often)
We don't need to be enemies.
Associate Steve Acaster
[YorkshireRifles.com]
No upgrade button with this announcement? I was all so ready to fork over a poxxy 20 bucks ... and ended up giving money to endanged species charity to save stupid orange monkies instead ...