Binary Announcement and Release
by Brett Seyler · 12/01/2009 (2:18 pm) · 203 comments
Good afternoon Torque people! It's my pleasure to share some exciting news with all of you this Monday. As I alluded to in my previous blog, we've mulled over a lower-tier licensing option for Torque 3D long enough. It's time.
"Torque 3D" is now available for licensing. A full-featured, binary-only version of Torque 3D Professional, it can be licensed for just $250 / seat. With Torque 3D then, the following options are available:
Torque 3D Professional - $1000 / seat
Torque 3D - $250 / seat
Of course, we also have a full-featured, binary only demo which you can download and use for FREE as long as you want. But we have one more surprise for you...
For the month of December, you can license Torque 3D at a $150 discount. For the next 31 days, it's $100 / seat!
I hope you all feel like this is a good solution for an high-quality introduction to Torque for developers who aren't ready to pay for the full cost of a Professional license. We looked at a lot of options, and we feel like this is the most straightforward way for us to give developers what they are looking for. There are no strings, no royalties, no catches or gimmicks. If you have $100 (in December), you can start using Torque 3D to make games now. If you have another $750, you can upgrade to a Professional license and have full access to Torque 3D source code and first access to alpha and beta features. Again, the latter is just the beginning in the way of Pro perks, but source access to a the best terrain, networking and rendering technology this side of $1M is a pretty nice perk in and of itself.
Here's a quick peek at what people are doing right now (shameless eye candy plug):
Fantastic work in Torque 3D by Alan James
Pre-emptive Q&A
Q. Is there a feature delta between Torque 3D and Torque 3D Professional?A. With the exception of source code, not at all.
Q. Is the Torque 3D (binary) license for commercial use?
A. Absolutely. It's the same as the Professional license. Use it make as many games as you like. One simple fee. No royalties.
Q. What about upgrade paths?
A. Legacy Torque license holders (TGE / TGEA) cannot apply their investment to Torque 3D, but we will continue to allow that investment to applied to a Professional license. If an individual owns both a legacy license (e.g. "TGE" for $150), and they purchase Torque 3D, they may apply the greater of the two discounts to a Torque 3D Professional license.
Q. If I pay $100 for Torque 3D this month, do I get a $100 or a $250 discount on a Professional license?
A. $250.
I'm happy to answer any other questions in the comments and I'll update the Q&A with good ones as we go.
Torque 3D development blogs:
- Post #1 - Kickoff
- Post #2 - Apparatus and Warrior Camp
- Post #3 - Luma's racing kit
- Post #4 - Josh Engebretson and Web Publishing
- Post #5 - Pricing and Licensing
- Post #6 - Pricing and Licensing CONTINUED
- Post #7 - Wetness & Precipitation
- Post #8 - Screeen Space Ambient Occlusion (SSAO)
- Post #9 - Matt Langley and the Torque Launcher
- Post #10 - Chris Robertson and Collada
- Post #11 - Depth of Field
- Post #12 - Advanced Lighting
- Post #13 - Soft Particles
- Post #14 - World Editor
- Post #15 - Pricing and Licensing ANNOUNCED!
- Post #16 - GDC Live Edition
- Post #17 - River & Road Editors
- Post #18 - Beta is UP!
- Post #19 - Light Rays, Undercity, and the Material Editor
- Post #20 - Mass Market Hardware
- Post #21 - Beta: Part Deux
- Post #22 - Marching Towards Beta 3
- Post #23 - pureLIGHT
- Post #24 - Lighting, Terrain, and Cloth
- Post #25 - Beta 3!
- Post #26 - Documentation
- Post #27 - Beta 4!
- Post #28 - Shape Editor
- Post #29 - Beta 5!
- Post #30 - Collada Import GUI Dialog
- Post #31 - 1.0 Release!!!
- Post #32 - The only good bug...
- Post #33 - 1.1 Alpha!
- Post #34 - Binary Announcement and Release
- Post #35 - Coming Soon!
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#122
Can we get some clarification on this? We have a commercial accounts and would like to buy these seats for artist on a bigger project but it needs to be able to be administered by a single account the way our pro licenses are. This would be important for smaller companies that use contractors. and need to be able to transfer licenses to other employees
12/03/2009 (1:53 am)
@Ken: Your artists will need accounts of their own, unless you're buying the floating (>$1000) version of T3D. I doubt a common credit card would be a problem, as there are probably many businesses and schools buying stuff in bulk here.Can we get some clarification on this? We have a commercial accounts and would like to buy these seats for artist on a bigger project but it needs to be able to be administered by a single account the way our pro licenses are. This would be important for smaller companies that use contractors. and need to be able to transfer licenses to other employees
#123
12/03/2009 (2:40 am)
Someone please answer my question. I really need the answer. 
#124
What's the limitations / differences with the demo? Is it like a PLE version or something? Couldn't find a page with this information. Perhaps it would be a nice idea to add it to the licensing comparison / matrix page?
12/03/2009 (8:54 am)
I think the offer's great, not fully cumulative but as stated it gives people with limited funds (right now) the opportunity for indies to afford and bootstrap their game development which is bigger then whether or not you get 100% of all your discounts in future. However I do understand / respect the fact that some details weren't crystal clear for some previous owners.What's the limitations / differences with the demo? Is it like a PLE version or something? Couldn't find a page with this information. Perhaps it would be a nice idea to add it to the licensing comparison / matrix page?
#125
1. Great price...great deal...even better deal for non-legacy engine owners.
2. Still not sure what the difference is between Torque 3D binary and demo (other than publication rights).
3. I (like many others) had a bit of sticker shock even at the EA price of $500 (ANTI-FLAME DISCLAIMER: I am not suggesting the product isn't worth the $500 or even the full price of $1000). Having paid (if memory serves) about $400 combined for both TGE and TGEA, I was a bit surprised to see that the EA price for T3D was $500. I never really felt like I got my money's worth from the legacy engines. This was largely due to (IMHO) GG's growing pains. The docs were pretty bad and they seemed to rely on 3rd party books and "boot camp trips" just to teach folks how the engine worked. Having a day job seriously limited my "play time" with those engines, and I never really was able to bite into them and use them to their full potential. So I was admittedly hesitant to shell out another $500.
All that being said...it is MY FAULT that I missed out on the EA pricing. I've played with the demo...it flat out rocks. I will chalk this down as a learning experience for me, and move forward with a bit more faith in GG products. I've always espoused the Torque brand and recommended it to everyone I knew that was interested in game development. I will continue to do so...and for my own benefit will pay much closer attention to future discounts that are offered to me as a licensed product owner.
Maybe a premium membership to garagegames.com would be a good approach. Like a $50 - $100/year membership that gives account holders access to the best pricing, period. I'd pay annually to get EA pricing whenever it was convenient for me. The economy did/does suck...and that played into my decision not shell out $500 for the EA option. But a premium membership that gave me EA pricing TODAY would have been good for me.
Thoughts?
--RB
12/03/2009 (9:31 am)
A few points...1. Great price...great deal...even better deal for non-legacy engine owners.
2. Still not sure what the difference is between Torque 3D binary and demo (other than publication rights).
3. I (like many others) had a bit of sticker shock even at the EA price of $500 (ANTI-FLAME DISCLAIMER: I am not suggesting the product isn't worth the $500 or even the full price of $1000). Having paid (if memory serves) about $400 combined for both TGE and TGEA, I was a bit surprised to see that the EA price for T3D was $500. I never really felt like I got my money's worth from the legacy engines. This was largely due to (IMHO) GG's growing pains. The docs were pretty bad and they seemed to rely on 3rd party books and "boot camp trips" just to teach folks how the engine worked. Having a day job seriously limited my "play time" with those engines, and I never really was able to bite into them and use them to their full potential. So I was admittedly hesitant to shell out another $500.
All that being said...it is MY FAULT that I missed out on the EA pricing. I've played with the demo...it flat out rocks. I will chalk this down as a learning experience for me, and move forward with a bit more faith in GG products. I've always espoused the Torque brand and recommended it to everyone I knew that was interested in game development. I will continue to do so...and for my own benefit will pay much closer attention to future discounts that are offered to me as a licensed product owner.
Maybe a premium membership to garagegames.com would be a good approach. Like a $50 - $100/year membership that gives account holders access to the best pricing, period. I'd pay annually to get EA pricing whenever it was convenient for me. The economy did/does suck...and that played into my decision not shell out $500 for the EA option. But a premium membership that gave me EA pricing TODAY would have been good for me.
Thoughts?
--RB
#126
As long as the compiled exes that someone gives you do not contain anything that you need to pay for it shouldn't be a problem. The point of the binary edition is that you do not get to see the source. If you purchased anything from the store that needed compiling and whoever compiled it for you also owned said products, it shouldn't be a problem. As all parties included did infact pay for them. Think of it this way, if you can't get a compiled exe then how would you ever distribute your game?
@Leeroy
The difference between the demo and the binary is that the demo is limited as to how much you can add to it, the binary does not have this restriction. And as you said the binary edition also lets you publish your game, whereas the demo does not.
@Ron
I think everyone had that reserve about T3D at first, and opted out for those same reasons in the begining. I'm also not too keen on a premium membership idea, but those are for my own reasons and that just gets kinda off topic.
12/03/2009 (10:28 am)
@AlexanderAs long as the compiled exes that someone gives you do not contain anything that you need to pay for it shouldn't be a problem. The point of the binary edition is that you do not get to see the source. If you purchased anything from the store that needed compiling and whoever compiled it for you also owned said products, it shouldn't be a problem. As all parties included did infact pay for them. Think of it this way, if you can't get a compiled exe then how would you ever distribute your game?
@Leeroy
The difference between the demo and the binary is that the demo is limited as to how much you can add to it, the binary does not have this restriction. And as you said the binary edition also lets you publish your game, whereas the demo does not.
@Ron
I think everyone had that reserve about T3D at first, and opted out for those same reasons in the begining. I'm also not too keen on a premium membership idea, but those are for my own reasons and that just gets kinda off topic.
#127
12/03/2009 (10:38 am)
Think it's a great idea on the binary. Helps those who cannot afford the pro version for now. It also secures the smaller developer or newby, in the event they will upgrade in the future if they still develop games so a win win situation all round. 
#128
But: For people like me the binary version is not very attractive because i can not build my game without the source code of the engine. So many modifications... so many new functions...
12/03/2009 (11:01 am)
Good offer from Garagegames. It is great for beginners and for all the artists which are temporarily a member of some teams. But: For people like me the binary version is not very attractive because i can not build my game without the source code of the engine. So many modifications... so many new functions...
#129
If I/we license the artist (or professional) version of Torque for a project, and then "that project" takes in more than 250K in revenues, are we forced to get a studio license to "maintain" that initial project or just re-license to the studio version for "future" projects we use Torque for?
The EULA is a little vague in this area, and I'm not sure how this works in terms of initial purchase vs. continued development. I'd assume that the license is a contract on the initial purchase, and the conditions of our organization at the time of that initial purchase, but since it isn't stated, that leaves a bit of a gray area. Torque is looking better and better, but as a business person, I certainly wouldn't want to lock myself into an engine that has an "undeclared" (there is no firm quoted price up front for studio licensing) total cost once our revenues reach 250K.
12/03/2009 (12:29 pm)
Question about licensing.If I/we license the artist (or professional) version of Torque for a project, and then "that project" takes in more than 250K in revenues, are we forced to get a studio license to "maintain" that initial project or just re-license to the studio version for "future" projects we use Torque for?
The EULA is a little vague in this area, and I'm not sure how this works in terms of initial purchase vs. continued development. I'd assume that the license is a contract on the initial purchase, and the conditions of our organization at the time of that initial purchase, but since it isn't stated, that leaves a bit of a gray area. Torque is looking better and better, but as a business person, I certainly wouldn't want to lock myself into an engine that has an "undeclared" (there is no firm quoted price up front for studio licensing) total cost once our revenues reach 250K.
#130
12/03/2009 (12:46 pm)
Previously there was a difference between the feature offered by binary vs source licenses like web publishing. Do those still apply? Do I get web publishing feature even with the binary version
#131
Thanks Rich! Sorry if I'm being a pain or missing it, but what's the limitations in regard to adding stuff (by stuff I assume we're talking 3d models?) in the demo then?
Can you pretty much make your game as if it were the binary version and then pay when you need to publish / remove the limits and / or get source code? (like a PLE or the UDK setup?)
12/03/2009 (1:01 pm)
@Goje: Check out the Torque3d page under the licensing link, it has a features matrix, which shows that web publishing is indeed included in the binary edition amongst other things www.garagegames.com/products/torque-3dThanks Rich! Sorry if I'm being a pain or missing it, but what's the limitations in regard to adding stuff (by stuff I assume we're talking 3d models?) in the demo then?
Can you pretty much make your game as if it were the binary version and then pay when you need to publish / remove the limits and / or get source code? (like a PLE or the UDK setup?)
#133
Can you pretty much make your game as if it were the binary version and then pay when you need to publish/remove the limits/ and or get source code?
You can attempt this, but you will hit the ceiling very quickly with an object limit. This isn't as bad as some engines that offer a feature delta between versions. It's always very dangerous to work with an engine that has a limit until you upgrade, while working on a full-fledged project. With the binary version, your level design and possibly some of your game play could be hurt by an object limit. It's still possible, but from experience I do not recommend it.
12/03/2009 (1:22 pm)
@Leroy - The object limit applies to anything you can add from the World Editor: Shapes, Sun, Sky, Clouds, Forest, etc.Can you pretty much make your game as if it were the binary version and then pay when you need to publish/remove the limits/ and or get source code?
You can attempt this, but you will hit the ceiling very quickly with an object limit. This isn't as bad as some engines that offer a feature delta between versions. It's always very dangerous to work with an engine that has a limit until you upgrade, while working on a full-fledged project. With the binary version, your level design and possibly some of your game play could be hurt by an object limit. It's still possible, but from experience I do not recommend it.
#134
I think that in the future, the capabilities of the "no source" version will expand greatly beyond those of current Torque script.
12/03/2009 (1:34 pm)
Quote:Thomas, I am 100% with you, but I also think that this is a good thing for people like us, as well. First of all, we love code, but we need artists to support our code. Me, personally, I consider a single quad with a material on it a "working demo," but we need artists to really bring our code to life. This lets us hand an artist the result of our code modifications, for a fraction of the price. The artist and script authors do not need the source code at all; the people who support them do need it.
But: For people like me the binary version is not very attractive because i can not build my game without the source code of the engine. So many modifications... so many new functions...
I think that in the future, the capabilities of the "no source" version will expand greatly beyond those of current Torque script.
#135
So I just want a bit of clarification, is this intentional? I'm not sure if it's supposed to be part of not having source code access, or if there was some kind of mix up with the files from the demo version. I also noticed it comes with "Torque 3D Demo EULA.pdf" so figured you probably used the demo version as a base.
12/03/2009 (1:49 pm)
Currently the T3D non-pro download does not come with the cs script files or gui files for the editors; it only has the precompiled dso files for everything in the tools folder.So I just want a bit of clarification, is this intentional? I'm not sure if it's supposed to be part of not having source code access, or if there was some kind of mix up with the files from the demo version. I also noticed it comes with "Torque 3D Demo EULA.pdf" so figured you probably used the demo version as a base.
#136
12/03/2009 (2:26 pm)
Eh, what Twisted Jenius said? If you make some small modifications do you have to pass those off as dso files? Not a huge hassle I guess, but wasn't aware that was happening till that post.
#137
Other then that, I'd love for the demo in the near future to be an unrestricted PLE version like Shiva 3d has (no, I'm not comparing or saying it's better then torque etc, I'm in no position to) without the export / publishing& monetizing capabilities.
I think it definitely helps to be able to MAKE your product first in the actual engine and then pay when you've actually produced something you would like to sell, share or publish.
This way you know exactly what your buying, what it and you are capable of doing together and you can make a wiser / less risky investment overall.
12/03/2009 (2:51 pm)
Thanks Michael, understood. Is there a number (i.e. 30 objects). It might be an idea to add the demo features to the license matrix.Other then that, I'd love for the demo in the near future to be an unrestricted PLE version like Shiva 3d has (no, I'm not comparing or saying it's better then torque etc, I'm in no position to) without the export / publishing& monetizing capabilities.
I think it definitely helps to be able to MAKE your product first in the actual engine and then pay when you've actually produced something you would like to sell, share or publish.
This way you know exactly what your buying, what it and you are capable of doing together and you can make a wiser / less risky investment overall.
#138
But there is another point i thought about. The developer can (not will, can) create his own world editor. Specialized for this one game. Like a modding tool. In this situation, the binary of T3D is not needed. But i guess the fewest developers will do that because it is a lot of work.
Finally, the decision of GG is very good. Beginners and artists can start with T3D without to invest a lot of money. As for myself will save my money to buy T3D Pro in the future. I hope that GG will kill the bugs in the meantime.
12/03/2009 (2:51 pm)
@Pat Wilson: Like i said, for artists the binary version is very good. And every engine can fail without a good amount of talented artists. I agree with you 100%. But there is another point i thought about. The developer can (not will, can) create his own world editor. Specialized for this one game. Like a modding tool. In this situation, the binary of T3D is not needed. But i guess the fewest developers will do that because it is a lot of work.
Finally, the decision of GG is very good. Beginners and artists can start with T3D without to invest a lot of money. As for myself will save my money to buy T3D Pro in the future. I hope that GG will kill the bugs in the meantime.
#139
There are claims you an make anything with the binary version but from what I understand some things, necessities like non-Gideon compatible animations, need source code modifications. The animations I put into the demo like simple run and idle animations do not translate well into game play. They look great in the shape editor but I still get a craned neck and awkward shoulder angles while in game mode.
There are also claims about the versatility of the shape editor. I would say there's a lot of work to be done to live up to those claims. For example here's part of a script before and after using the shape editor:
And after removing swim_right then adding it again:
Now that's messy.
& if I wanted a sneak, walk, and run (just dealing with forward animations)I'm only stuck with one variable "$mvForwardAction" in default.bind.cs which I cannot find anywhere in the scripts so I can only assume it's hard coded.
So I'd like to see GG put their claims about the binary version to the test & make a game using only the binary version. If you can prove me wrong please do so.
12/03/2009 (3:13 pm)
Honestly after working with the demo for a while . . .There are claims you an make anything with the binary version but from what I understand some things, necessities like non-Gideon compatible animations, need source code modifications. The animations I put into the demo like simple run and idle animations do not translate well into game play. They look great in the shape editor but I still get a craned neck and awkward shoulder angles while in game mode.
There are also claims about the versatility of the shape editor. I would say there's a lot of work to be done to live up to those claims. For example here's part of a script before and after using the shape editor:
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_crouchside.dsq", "crouch_side");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimroot.dsq", "swim_root");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimback.dsq", "swim_backward");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimforward.dsq", "swim_forward");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimsidelf.dsq", "swim_left");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimsiderg.dsq", "swim_right");And after removing swim_right then adding it again:
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_crouchside.dsq", "crouch_side");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimroot.dsq", "swim_root");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimback.dsq", "swim_backward");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimforward.dsq", "swim_forward");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimsidelf.dsq", "swim_left");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimsiderg.dsq", "swim_right");
%this.removeSequence("swim_right");
%this.addSequence("swim_left", "__backup__swim_left1");
%this.addSequence("__backup__swim_left1", "mySequence1", "0", "9");
%this.removeSequence("mySequence1");
%this.addSequence("art/shapes/actors/Gideon/player_swimsiderg.dsq", "swim_right", "0", "9");
%this.removeSequence("__backup__swim_left1");Now that's messy.
& if I wanted a sneak, walk, and run (just dealing with forward animations)I'm only stuck with one variable "$mvForwardAction" in default.bind.cs which I cannot find anywhere in the scripts so I can only assume it's hard coded.
So I'd like to see GG put their claims about the binary version to the test & make a game using only the binary version. If you can prove me wrong please do so.
#140
Two questions, please.
Can someone tell me what add-ons for Torque 3D come pre-compiled so that someone with a Binary License could use it?
(I understand there wouldn't be one made-to-order with my choice of add-ons.)
Also, where would I find information (ie. script only reference) on just what I can basically accomplish WITHOUT the source code or add-ons?
Thanks!
Steve
12/03/2009 (3:47 pm)
Hello.Two questions, please.
Can someone tell me what add-ons for Torque 3D come pre-compiled so that someone with a Binary License could use it?
(I understand there wouldn't be one made-to-order with my choice of add-ons.)
Also, where would I find information (ie. script only reference) on just what I can basically accomplish WITHOUT the source code or add-ons?
Thanks!
Steve
Torque 3D Owner Andrew Brady
Sorta true.. and to top that off, we now have afew GG posts answering them that do seem to be laced with far to much Caffeine.. to put it in a nice way lol.
I personally don't see how GG can even do this so cheap. But either way,gotta give props for another extraordinary offer. The deals and discounts, the blogs and appearing to listen to what the community wants.. has been spectacular with T3D.
My only fear now.. how long till one of the Big companies comes along and makes an offer lol. (I'm only half kidding)