Binary Announcement and Release
by Brett Seyler · 12/01/2009 (2:18 pm) · 203 comments
Good afternoon Torque people! It's my pleasure to share some exciting news with all of you this Monday. As I alluded to in my previous blog, we've mulled over a lower-tier licensing option for Torque 3D long enough. It's time.
"Torque 3D" is now available for licensing. A full-featured, binary-only version of Torque 3D Professional, it can be licensed for just $250 / seat. With Torque 3D then, the following options are available:
Torque 3D Professional - $1000 / seat
Torque 3D - $250 / seat
Of course, we also have a full-featured, binary only demo which you can download and use for FREE as long as you want. But we have one more surprise for you...
For the month of December, you can license Torque 3D at a $150 discount. For the next 31 days, it's $100 / seat!
I hope you all feel like this is a good solution for an high-quality introduction to Torque for developers who aren't ready to pay for the full cost of a Professional license. We looked at a lot of options, and we feel like this is the most straightforward way for us to give developers what they are looking for. There are no strings, no royalties, no catches or gimmicks. If you have $100 (in December), you can start using Torque 3D to make games now. If you have another $750, you can upgrade to a Professional license and have full access to Torque 3D source code and first access to alpha and beta features. Again, the latter is just the beginning in the way of Pro perks, but source access to a the best terrain, networking and rendering technology this side of $1M is a pretty nice perk in and of itself.
Here's a quick peek at what people are doing right now (shameless eye candy plug):
Fantastic work in Torque 3D by Alan James
Pre-emptive Q&A
Q. Is there a feature delta between Torque 3D and Torque 3D Professional?A. With the exception of source code, not at all.
Q. Is the Torque 3D (binary) license for commercial use?
A. Absolutely. It's the same as the Professional license. Use it make as many games as you like. One simple fee. No royalties.
Q. What about upgrade paths?
A. Legacy Torque license holders (TGE / TGEA) cannot apply their investment to Torque 3D, but we will continue to allow that investment to applied to a Professional license. If an individual owns both a legacy license (e.g. "TGE" for $150), and they purchase Torque 3D, they may apply the greater of the two discounts to a Torque 3D Professional license.
Q. If I pay $100 for Torque 3D this month, do I get a $100 or a $250 discount on a Professional license?
A. $250.
I'm happy to answer any other questions in the comments and I'll update the Q&A with good ones as we go.
Torque 3D development blogs:
- Post #1 - Kickoff
- Post #2 - Apparatus and Warrior Camp
- Post #3 - Luma's racing kit
- Post #4 - Josh Engebretson and Web Publishing
- Post #5 - Pricing and Licensing
- Post #6 - Pricing and Licensing CONTINUED
- Post #7 - Wetness & Precipitation
- Post #8 - Screeen Space Ambient Occlusion (SSAO)
- Post #9 - Matt Langley and the Torque Launcher
- Post #10 - Chris Robertson and Collada
- Post #11 - Depth of Field
- Post #12 - Advanced Lighting
- Post #13 - Soft Particles
- Post #14 - World Editor
- Post #15 - Pricing and Licensing ANNOUNCED!
- Post #16 - GDC Live Edition
- Post #17 - River & Road Editors
- Post #18 - Beta is UP!
- Post #19 - Light Rays, Undercity, and the Material Editor
- Post #20 - Mass Market Hardware
- Post #21 - Beta: Part Deux
- Post #22 - Marching Towards Beta 3
- Post #23 - pureLIGHT
- Post #24 - Lighting, Terrain, and Cloth
- Post #25 - Beta 3!
- Post #26 - Documentation
- Post #27 - Beta 4!
- Post #28 - Shape Editor
- Post #29 - Beta 5!
- Post #30 - Collada Import GUI Dialog
- Post #31 - 1.0 Release!!!
- Post #32 - The only good bug...
- Post #33 - 1.1 Alpha!
- Post #34 - Binary Announcement and Release
- Post #35 - Coming Soon!
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#102
I'm not even asking for a discount, just saying why would I pay an extra $100 and raise the price to $805. It doesn't make sense to me.
What I'm saying is if I buy the binary for $100 the price for the Pro version should go down to $605 not up to $805.
12/02/2009 (10:35 pm)
Quote:Guys, discounts don't last forever. Wouldn't be a discount otherwise ;)
I'm not even asking for a discount, just saying why would I pay an extra $100 and raise the price to $805. It doesn't make sense to me.
What I'm saying is if I buy the binary for $100 the price for the Pro version should go down to $605 not up to $805.
#103
I'm not debating whether T3D has more docs, is better, etc.. it is, I've seen it for myself. I know it's better. It wasn't a given when the EA discount was up though. I may have done it then if I knew what I know now. Heck, I even got the Blade3D discount, but even then, I still didn't know what I know now.
But alas this is now our point. Our point is, if we buy basic now, we actually lose our discount and have to pay more overall.
I don't know why we do, but we do. It has been said clearly by DMB and Mich. So buying the basic version now makes it more expensive for us than buying pro. Knowing what I know now, I'd be hard pressed to pass up paying only $505. What I knew back then, it was pretty easy to pass up.
12/02/2009 (10:40 pm)
@RonnyI'm not debating whether T3D has more docs, is better, etc.. it is, I've seen it for myself. I know it's better. It wasn't a given when the EA discount was up though. I may have done it then if I knew what I know now. Heck, I even got the Blade3D discount, but even then, I still didn't know what I know now.
But alas this is now our point. Our point is, if we buy basic now, we actually lose our discount and have to pay more overall.
Quote:If someone paid the $250 for the basic version of T3D and already held a license for TGEA, wouldn't that be a discount of $445? I guess I'm not seeing why they would lose their discount of $295 to begin with. Why not in this case give them T3D Basic for Free and then give them the upgrade to T3D Pro for $705.
Would that not make sense?
I don't know why we do, but we do. It has been said clearly by DMB and Mich. So buying the basic version now makes it more expensive for us than buying pro. Knowing what I know now, I'd be hard pressed to pass up paying only $505. What I knew back then, it was pretty easy to pass up.
#104
The $100 is an amazing deal. Our original plan was $500, which was the popular vote by the community. When the current discount ends, we are still offering the binary only solution at 1/2 what most expected.
I hear what you are saying, but the reasons to pay $100 now are justified: Access to Torque 3D (minus source), with publishing rights. If you have a team, you can get your artists, level designers, and scripters up and running for very little.
$100 now, make 80%+ of your game with that. In the mean time, save up money over time and pop the Pro purchase when you need it.
12/02/2009 (10:56 pm)
@Trent and Morrie - I understand that if you are bootstrapping every dollar counts, but at no point have we shunned owners of TGE and TGEA for new users. When Torque 3D first came out, we offered it at a 50% discount to TGEA owners. That was the cost of TGEA + additional discounts. We let that offer run for a while. Now, you can still get your previous engines discounted from Torque 3D. THAT is catering to existing owners. It sucks that you couldn't afford the engine at the time of its greatest discount, but thousands of others could and we consider that a success. We can't please everyone, not without going bankrupt.The $100 is an amazing deal. Our original plan was $500, which was the popular vote by the community. When the current discount ends, we are still offering the binary only solution at 1/2 what most expected.
I hear what you are saying, but the reasons to pay $100 now are justified: Access to Torque 3D (minus source), with publishing rights. If you have a team, you can get your artists, level designers, and scripters up and running for very little.
$100 now, make 80%+ of your game with that. In the mean time, save up money over time and pop the Pro purchase when you need it.
#105
If your a coder, and wants the binary now to poke around, and the pro version later so you can make a game or other application, then go ahead. You get the advantage of being up front, instead of years behind. Just like others, myself included, have done with TSE and so on. Tasting the new functionality, making fingerprints to the alpas and betas. If you dont want to be, and dont want to be smacked with some imaginary 'loss' then dont.
but all this fuzz about it being expensive, and the lack of cash flow into the developers [b]now[/], so they can survive to when prople are ready is a tad silly.
Support your game engine devs, just as they are supporting you...
12/02/2009 (11:11 pm)
To be honest, T3D is cheap. Ive been around since TGE 1.3, and the engine have become a game engine with a very neat toolset, not just a hobbyist toy. The mere fact that folks on your team, if your a hobbyist, indie or pro, can now legally join into creating levels, probs, etc. for a mere 100$ is just plain and simple cheapIf your a coder, and wants the binary now to poke around, and the pro version later so you can make a game or other application, then go ahead. You get the advantage of being up front, instead of years behind. Just like others, myself included, have done with TSE and so on. Tasting the new functionality, making fingerprints to the alpas and betas. If you dont want to be, and dont want to be smacked with some imaginary 'loss' then dont.
but all this fuzz about it being expensive, and the lack of cash flow into the developers [b]now[/], so they can survive to when prople are ready is a tad silly.
Support your game engine devs, just as they are supporting you...
#106
I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying (I'm not asking for a discount)
I'm just simply stating why would I pay $100 then turn around and pay $705 which would raise the total to $805.
Would it make more sense to subtract $100 from the $705 making it $605 since its the same exact engine, because people probably won't use the binary over the Pro version. Why pay for 2 engines that would be like buying TGEA twice.
12/02/2009 (11:12 pm)
@Michael PerryI'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying (I'm not asking for a discount)
I'm just simply stating why would I pay $100 then turn around and pay $705 which would raise the total to $805.
Would it make more sense to subtract $100 from the $705 making it $605 since its the same exact engine, because people probably won't use the binary over the Pro version. Why pay for 2 engines that would be like buying TGEA twice.
#107
12/02/2009 (11:26 pm)
I think I am going to grab it today or tommorow but I need to know something. Can i use compiled exes? Yes or no? I made a thread about it but I want to get a fast answer as it seams like an easy to answer question. I want to use GMK with the binary version. Can I do that? Someone please answer ASAP as this could determine whether I am going to get it or not.
#108
If I don't own TGE/A now and pay $100, then when it comes time to upgrade to pro, I pay $850 in total. If I do own TGEA now, when it comes time to upgrade, I pay $805. That's $100 more than if I buy pro now. All because I bought products from you previously!
If I, god forbid, wait until January to buy T3D basic, then I pay $955 in total for pro.
The reasons to buy T3D Basic now, for $100, are completely justified, and a steal, and possibly the best deal on Earth right now, provided you don't already own TGEA
if you do own TGEA but you can't afford T3D pro just yet, you're better off using the demo and saving up for pro. Let me be really clear here, I think T3D is worth its price tag. So let me say this again. There is no reason, nor incentive, for a current TGEA owner, to purchase T3D basic with the intention of buying Pro later.
It sounds like we're bitching because we you just laid down a great deal that's gonna cost us more in the long run, but we wouldn't be in this position if we could have afforded the larger price tag in the first place! Don't get us wrong, we (being me) believe the cost of pro is worth it (am I repeating myself here?) but I'm a hobbyist at this point and my project wont be generating capital, so it's far more cost effective for me to save up and go straight for pro. I'm not sure what else to say. This current deal does me no favours.
Edit: I got a couple of figures wrong, I'm still quite sick atm.
12/02/2009 (11:31 pm)
@Mich - I read you, but I really don't think you're hearing us. So let me attempt to be really clear.If I don't own TGE/A now and pay $100, then when it comes time to upgrade to pro, I pay $850 in total. If I do own TGEA now, when it comes time to upgrade, I pay $805. That's $100 more than if I buy pro now. All because I bought products from you previously!
If I, god forbid, wait until January to buy T3D basic, then I pay $955 in total for pro.
The reasons to buy T3D Basic now, for $100, are completely justified, and a steal, and possibly the best deal on Earth right now, provided you don't already own TGEA
if you do own TGEA but you can't afford T3D pro just yet, you're better off using the demo and saving up for pro. Let me be really clear here, I think T3D is worth its price tag. So let me say this again. There is no reason, nor incentive, for a current TGEA owner, to purchase T3D basic with the intention of buying Pro later.
It sounds like we're bitching because we you just laid down a great deal that's gonna cost us more in the long run, but we wouldn't be in this position if we could have afforded the larger price tag in the first place! Don't get us wrong, we (being me) believe the cost of pro is worth it (am I repeating myself here?) but I'm a hobbyist at this point and my project wont be generating capital, so it's far more cost effective for me to save up and go straight for pro. I'm not sure what else to say. This current deal does me no favours.
Edit: I got a couple of figures wrong, I'm still quite sick atm.
#109
For new users, existing users, or people who have been on the fence about getting the full version this is a great offer.
12/02/2009 (11:33 pm)
Morrie & Trent- Please, you've taken up almost two pages for a point which has been clearly explained. This is not a cumulative discount as we have offered in the past. If you don't have the money (or the inclination) to buy Pro, now, YES it will cost you $100 more in the long run to buy the binary now and upgrade to Pro later but ONLY IF you were already a TGEA owner. We did not make a mistake in the presentation. (edit-- decaffinated)For new users, existing users, or people who have been on the fence about getting the full version this is a great offer.
#110
While we don't like it, this is something you should have clearly stated at the start to have avoided the last two pages.
12/02/2009 (11:38 pm)
@Davey - There is a reason why he (and me) have taken up two pages, and that's because none of you (GG) have explicitly stated what you just did, and to us it was not clear.Quote:If you don't have the money (or the inclination) to buy Pro, now, YES it will cost you more to buy the binary upgrade later IF you were already a TGEA owner. We didn't make a mistake...
While we don't like it, this is something you should have clearly stated at the start to have avoided the last two pages.
#111
12/02/2009 (11:38 pm)
@Davey, too much caffeine? 
#112
IMHO your logic is flawed. GG gave a massive discount for an in- development product, not a finished one. But as mentioned before many people woldnt jump in that wagon because at that moment:
a. GG had lost credibility.
b. TGEA had too many holes, bugs and missing features.
c. Missing docs... always.
d. Bad bad economy. There were more important things than spending money in a game engine.
e. GG didn't treated their customers as they deserved.
Now lots of those things have been fixed in T3D. I can say that if you apply the discount again, many people would jump into Torque.
On the other hand, nobody says the discount to TGE/TGEA owners is lost. What we have here is an opportunity to new users but that won't hurt TGEA owners discount at all. It is a generous discount so no complains here.
But I still have to stick with Morrie on this one. When I read $100 for the engine I really hoped you had considered it as a step to get the full engine. Pay 100 + 295 discount for TGEA owners then it would be a deal, I would buy it inmediatly just to own it and play with it sometime, even if I really don't need T3D right now, but thinking that Im putting money into the GG box that will count in the future to get the full engine.
In the reality, we need to understand GG is a game engine development company, not a piggy bank.
Luck!
Guimo
12/02/2009 (11:47 pm)
@MichaelIMHO your logic is flawed. GG gave a massive discount for an in- development product, not a finished one. But as mentioned before many people woldnt jump in that wagon because at that moment:
a. GG had lost credibility.
b. TGEA had too many holes, bugs and missing features.
c. Missing docs... always.
d. Bad bad economy. There were more important things than spending money in a game engine.
e. GG didn't treated their customers as they deserved.
Now lots of those things have been fixed in T3D. I can say that if you apply the discount again, many people would jump into Torque.
On the other hand, nobody says the discount to TGE/TGEA owners is lost. What we have here is an opportunity to new users but that won't hurt TGEA owners discount at all. It is a generous discount so no complains here.
But I still have to stick with Morrie on this one. When I read $100 for the engine I really hoped you had considered it as a step to get the full engine. Pay 100 + 295 discount for TGEA owners then it would be a deal, I would buy it inmediatly just to own it and play with it sometime, even if I really don't need T3D right now, but thinking that Im putting money into the GG box that will count in the future to get the full engine.
In the reality, we need to understand GG is a game engine development company, not a piggy bank.
Luck!
Guimo
#113
The pricing structure has been explained numerous times by multiple employees throughout the thread in addition to the explanation in the original post. For the last couple pages now you've simply been complaining for the sake of complaining. If you want to continue doing so then start a thread in the forums for it, otherwise let's get this thread back on topic.
12/02/2009 (11:47 pm)
@Trent and MorrieThe pricing structure has been explained numerous times by multiple employees throughout the thread in addition to the explanation in the original post. For the last couple pages now you've simply been complaining for the sake of complaining. If you want to continue doing so then start a thread in the forums for it, otherwise let's get this thread back on topic.
#114
I also resent this. I am hobbyist and I'd damn well pay the $1000 if I had it. You're a business and you're out to make money, I'm a consumer and I'm out to save money, that is the way the world works.
However what you have done pricing wise here is a slap in the face to your existing customers, the ones who purchased everything else by just can't afford pro right now but are willing to put some money on the table now and make up the balance later for the rest of the features (source code).
Instead, you say I need to pay more in the long run or you don't want my money at all. That's they way to treat your existing customers!
12/02/2009 (11:49 pm)
Quote:"How do I get the maximum discount with the minimum upfront investment?"
I also resent this. I am hobbyist and I'd damn well pay the $1000 if I had it. You're a business and you're out to make money, I'm a consumer and I'm out to save money, that is the way the world works.
However what you have done pricing wise here is a slap in the face to your existing customers, the ones who purchased everything else by just can't afford pro right now but are willing to put some money on the table now and make up the balance later for the rest of the features (source code).
Instead, you say I need to pay more in the long run or you don't want my money at all. That's they way to treat your existing customers!
#115
The pricing structure was not adequately explained. If it was, then I wouldn't be asking these questions. How hard is it for you guys to do what Davey just did and state it clearly?
If pricing and upgrade paths are not on topic when you've just announced a lower priced / feature reduced version of your product, then what is?
12/02/2009 (11:53 pm)
@ScottThe pricing structure was not adequately explained. If it was, then I wouldn't be asking these questions. How hard is it for you guys to do what Davey just did and state it clearly?
If pricing and upgrade paths are not on topic when you've just announced a lower priced / feature reduced version of your product, then what is?
#116
If you don't like the offer, don't take it. I'm really trying to be civil, I've rewritten my posts a couple of times already, trying to give it a necessarily delicate [now decaffeinated] tone.
[edit--now decaffeinated]
I've worked closely with the dev and marketing team on finding the right strategy for this roll out and I felt we'd found something that EVERYONE could be excited about.
Note: Current TGEA owner still get a $295 discount off full versions of Torque 3D.
If you don't have the money to upgrade now, you can pick up the binary for only $100.
@Guimo-- Thanks for the candid analysis and concise summary.
@Randy- Not enough I think. We were up late last night for Mich's birthday. I need sleep.
And back to Trent and Morrie-- Let's be friends again, please. I don't want to fight. Really, I don't. I hate this stuff, I'm loosing sleep, I could be napping instead of refreshing the page to see if we have to go another round. Done? Please?
12/03/2009 (12:03 am)
@ Trent- We work with businesses of all sizes. And we are one of the few companies that has distinctly and intentionally offered preferential pricing to individuals with less money and without compromising features.If you don't like the offer, don't take it. I'm really trying to be civil, I've rewritten my posts a couple of times already, trying to give it a necessarily delicate [now decaffeinated] tone.
[edit--now decaffeinated]
I've worked closely with the dev and marketing team on finding the right strategy for this roll out and I felt we'd found something that EVERYONE could be excited about.
Note: Current TGEA owner still get a $295 discount off full versions of Torque 3D.
If you don't have the money to upgrade now, you can pick up the binary for only $100.
@Guimo-- Thanks for the candid analysis and concise summary.
@Randy- Not enough I think. We were up late last night for Mich's birthday. I need sleep.
And back to Trent and Morrie-- Let's be friends again, please. I don't want to fight. Really, I don't. I hate this stuff, I'm loosing sleep, I could be napping instead of refreshing the page to see if we have to go another round. Done? Please?
#117
Oh, but to be positive again, HUZZAH! Great price tag and plan by Brett. He has done right by the team, the company, and the community since day one. Props...
12/03/2009 (12:04 am)
Well, everyone understands now, right? Thanks to Davey for explaining it better than I could. Now we can all move on. Move along people, back to making games please.Oh, but to be positive again, HUZZAH! Great price tag and plan by Brett. He has done right by the team, the company, and the community since day one. Props...
#118
I got my clarification, I find it very odd and I don't like it, but that is now my problem, not yours.
Go to bed, that's an order.
12/03/2009 (12:47 am)
@Davey - I don't hate you dammit! I'm not throwing out hate here, I'm just really upset (sad) here because all I wanted was clarification on an issue that seemed really odd to me, but instead of being told what you told me in clearest ways, I just got hostility for trying to get clear answer!I got my clarification, I find it very odd and I don't like it, but that is now my problem, not yours.
Go to bed, that's an order.
#119
We were really excited to roll out this announcement Dec. 1st And truly feel it is a great option for anyone interested in Torque 3D who hasn't had a chance to get it yet or can't afford it currently.
12/03/2009 (1:06 am)
It's Mich's fault, I swear : )We were really excited to roll out this announcement Dec. 1st And truly feel it is a great option for anyone interested in Torque 3D who hasn't had a chance to get it yet or can't afford it currently.
Torque 3D Owner Ronny Bangsund
Torque Cheerleaders
@Trent: You can see the docs now, and more docs are coming as soon as they get their version control servers up and running. Before the end of December, for sure. You'll have plenty of docs to evaluate :)