Community Is Precious and Fragile
by Jeff Tunnell · 01/14/2009 (3:55 pm) · 26 comments
Yesterday morning I got home from a recording session with my band, the Procrastinators, at 2:30AM. I was buzzing, so I checked my computer to see what was new, and at the top of the list was the new GarageGames site redesign. My link to GG automatically goes to the community dashboard where I was greeted by the new design. I kind of panicked and started clicking around to see where the familiar community tools that you are all discussing went. I could not find them, and hastily posted a comment in Jacob's blog about being disappointed, which I was at the time. In retrospect, I should not have posted that comment.
Since that time I have talked to Josh Williams and Brett Seylor as well as read all of the comments and forum posts. To be clear, I have no particular influence, but all of the top level people at GG are passionate about getting great community features back online in the new site.
There are some parts of the new site that I really love, like the simple blog layout that makes pics stand out. I look forward to seeing the new site evolve and bring back all your favorite community features.
But, the main point of this blog is that things change all the time. This community has gone through many different iterations over the years. We have all met friends and co-workers, benefited from our experiences here at the GG community, and applied that to our lives. Many people have moved on, or graduated, if you will. Justin Mette, Dave Myers, most of the Maxgaming guys, myself and my partners, and many, many more used to post nearly every day (Ben Garney, one of the PBL partners had nearly 10,000 posts in the GG forums), but one rarely hears from any of these people as they are running their successful companies, many still based on Torque technologies.
All of this has taken place over the course of eight years. I am sure the community can handle a week or two to fix some of the community features. Hang in there.
-Jeff Tunnell, Co-Founder GarageGames
Push Button Labs
Since that time I have talked to Josh Williams and Brett Seylor as well as read all of the comments and forum posts. To be clear, I have no particular influence, but all of the top level people at GG are passionate about getting great community features back online in the new site.
There are some parts of the new site that I really love, like the simple blog layout that makes pics stand out. I look forward to seeing the new site evolve and bring back all your favorite community features.
But, the main point of this blog is that things change all the time. This community has gone through many different iterations over the years. We have all met friends and co-workers, benefited from our experiences here at the GG community, and applied that to our lives. Many people have moved on, or graduated, if you will. Justin Mette, Dave Myers, most of the Maxgaming guys, myself and my partners, and many, many more used to post nearly every day (Ben Garney, one of the PBL partners had nearly 10,000 posts in the GG forums), but one rarely hears from any of these people as they are running their successful companies, many still based on Torque technologies.
All of this has taken place over the course of eight years. I am sure the community can handle a week or two to fix some of the community features. Hang in there.
-Jeff Tunnell, Co-Founder GarageGames
Push Button Labs
About the author
#22
The community here is primarily upset because of the direction GG.com has been taking - even with its new site. The vast majority of community features were stripped out, and many necessary functions are not working. TDN, url redirection (for sites that link to you guys), and resource files to name just a few of the necessary functions.
We're not upset because we have to learn how to navigate your new site, we're upset because we were given a 24 hour notice before removing all of the the features we've come to rely upon, and replaced them with just a shinier product page. The fact that GG didn't think twice about launching a site with removed and broken community features can make rumors start.
This should be taken as a lesson to learn from. You're not going to grow as a developer or as a person by keeping your blinders on and repeating successful launch, successful launch.
A lot of good will come from this new site, and your hard work will be what has earned that. However, listen to the community and be slow to take defensive measures. It's a delicate situation. You can't wrestle a dove right?
01/15/2009 (2:04 pm)
Hi Davey. I am a web application developer during the day, so I can empathize with "defending" the launch. Yes, it was successful in the sense that it launched with no major problems. However, your correlation between the Xbox UI and the new GG.com look are not relevant. I for one do like the new graphic layout, and was getting a little tired of the yellow scheme. A couple of critiques would be.. Where is your CSS? I can't imagine ever creating a site without it. Don't you care about SEO? It's simple to setup, and most certainly worth it. Much better than a fixed width layout.The community here is primarily upset because of the direction GG.com has been taking - even with its new site. The vast majority of community features were stripped out, and many necessary functions are not working. TDN, url redirection (for sites that link to you guys), and resource files to name just a few of the necessary functions.
We're not upset because we have to learn how to navigate your new site, we're upset because we were given a 24 hour notice before removing all of the the features we've come to rely upon, and replaced them with just a shinier product page. The fact that GG didn't think twice about launching a site with removed and broken community features can make rumors start.
This should be taken as a lesson to learn from. You're not going to grow as a developer or as a person by keeping your blinders on and repeating successful launch, successful launch.
A lot of good will come from this new site, and your hard work will be what has earned that. However, listen to the community and be slow to take defensive measures. It's a delicate situation. You can't wrestle a dove right?
#23
Point well taken, and again thank you for concise, fair appraisal.
We did think twice, three times, four times about what the critical features to launch the site with were. This site is LONG overdue, with the most recent desired launch to have been along side TGEA 1.8 BEFORE the new year. "Shinier" was definitely a goal, as was better search and easier to navigate. Breaking TDN and interrupting developer work flow were not goals and are not indicative of a new direction for GG. TDN, resource links and page navigation were things that worked in our internal testing or got missed in our final pass. Other things we knew would be initially absent but could be rebuilt into the site after launch. It was "go time," first of the year and time to make good on our numerous assertions of becoming a better, more professional company.
It's a narrow line between "unresponsive" and "defensive." Our goal is to show that we're are engaged, informed and committed.
01/15/2009 (3:06 pm)
Hi J.P. Thank you for the feedback, however, I don't think we've just been repeating "successful launch". Mostly we've been fighting fires, compiling a list of bugs and features to fix and requesting that the conversations stay constructive and civil. There are things we could have done better with this launch and there were a number of unexpected surprises as well. Our web team and our management are listening to the responses and taking action to address the concerns in their proper order. The reason, the members of my team and I have been reiterating the successes of the launch, is to off set some of the negativity we are clearly receiving. It's neither lip service nor are our responses halfhearted. Quote:We're not upset because we have to learn how to navigate your new site, we're upset because we were given a 24 hour notice before removing all of the the features we've come to rely upon, and replaced them with just a shinier product page. The fact that GG didn't think twice about launching a site with removed and broken community features can make rumors start.
Point well taken, and again thank you for concise, fair appraisal.
We did think twice, three times, four times about what the critical features to launch the site with were. This site is LONG overdue, with the most recent desired launch to have been along side TGEA 1.8 BEFORE the new year. "Shinier" was definitely a goal, as was better search and easier to navigate. Breaking TDN and interrupting developer work flow were not goals and are not indicative of a new direction for GG. TDN, resource links and page navigation were things that worked in our internal testing or got missed in our final pass. Other things we knew would be initially absent but could be rebuilt into the site after launch. It was "go time," first of the year and time to make good on our numerous assertions of becoming a better, more professional company.
It's a narrow line between "unresponsive" and "defensive." Our goal is to show that we're are engaged, informed and committed.
#24
01/15/2009 (3:28 pm)
There continue to be allusions in these comments that the site change was purely "aesthetic", or just a "re-skin" or "face lift", or otherwise minor, and we should just "get used to it." Obviously, however, this is not the case! There are numerous features that are either missing or have become much less useable! You can't gloss that over!Quote:...overall we're proud of our work. We stand by this site and we are congratulating ourselves on a great launch.To continue to pat yourselves on the back like this, when from the community's point of view the new site is a major clusterf***... You do us all a disservice to continue to maintain this stance! Responses like this are precisely why many of us are losing our faith and trust in GG! Do you understand that?! A better response would be, "We screwed up, we're fixing it, please don't leave, we want your money..." rather than continuing to say, "It was great launch! Woot!" =P
#25
The old yellow, etc. seemed more inviting. The warmth and vibrancy of the old color scheme may have seemed tacky or over-bright to some, but the site felt "fun" and "engaging".
The new scheme is too cold. It does look "professional" perhaps, but it doesn't seem nearly as inviting and definitely doesn't imply "fun".
01/15/2009 (3:40 pm)
Davey, while I (hopefully) have your attention in the thread, let me give you my opinion on the color changes (for what it might be worth).The old yellow, etc. seemed more inviting. The warmth and vibrancy of the old color scheme may have seemed tacky or over-bright to some, but the site felt "fun" and "engaging".
The new scheme is too cold. It does look "professional" perhaps, but it doesn't seem nearly as inviting and definitely doesn't imply "fun".
#26
So since GG has a solid track record (in my book), I really have no reason to doubt they will move forward for the betterment of all.
01/15/2009 (6:56 pm)
Jeff, thanks for the good reminder to hang in there. I think for most people who have been in the community for many years can say that there is always something growing and changing with GG. And as GG has proven time and time again, the growing pains have been worth it for the community, for the company, and for the future.So since GG has a solid track record (in my book), I really have no reason to doubt they will move forward for the betterment of all.
Torque 3D Owner Davey Jackson
Default Studio Name
For everyone else on this thread: This re-skin and the feedback we've received as a result of it, reminds me of another community face lift I was recently annoyed by, New XboX Experience. When Microsoft first unveiled and forced me to use NXE I hated it. I couldn't navigate my Xbox the way I was used to. Moving from game to game or from game to video took more time. I could see that with NXE Microsoft had prioritized displaying new media products, over the simple "insert disc, play game" utility I was accustom too. Finding my friends online took more time and I longed for an option to "switch it back" to the way I was used to. I totally hated it. I'd build a relationship with the UI which felt like second nature and I resented MS for interfering with my user experience.
Eventually I got used to it. I re-learned how to navigate the menus and I stared using the new sorting features which NXE enabled. Looking back on it, I still prefer the old UI, but I think that preference is because while I was learning the original XboX UI I was still new to the 360 and excited by my purchase.
This new site represents a major investment of time, design, man power and believe it or not love. We had over 20 working designs which we reviewed, contemplated, debated and iterated on. A lot of people have been asking "Why didn't you run a beta site and consult us sooner?" The truth of the matter is we at times had enough trouble building consensus amongst our own 15 person team about look, style and minimum ship features. Trying to build consensus amongst thousands, (tens of thousands) of existing users would have been an exercise in insanity.
We are listening to your comments and we are taking note of constructive feedback. The web team is working on improvements even as I'm writing this. But overall we're proud of our work. We stand by this site and we are congratulating ourselves on a great launch.
We're only 36hrs into the launch and this site is going to be around for a while. So please keep the feedback coming. And if, in an extended tour of the site, you have revisions or new opinions of the work we've done here (like Jeff) tell us those too!
Cheers
--davey