Torque for the iPhone Licensing
by Brett Seyler · 08/20/2008 (5:13 pm) · 68 comments
Well, we've mulled over a licensing model for our new iTorque (yes, that's the new name, thank you Raphael!) SDK long enough and we're finally ready to announce the licensing model and pricing. Thanks for all the feedback on the thread I posted earlier this week and for all the offers to help with development. We're nearing the level of documentation and ease of use where I think we'll be comfortable opening this up full bore at Indie prices soon, but for now, this is for pros / experts only. We want to ensure only those who won't be frustrated by commercial grade tools will be working with it at this stage, but don't worry, we're going to provide updates to both TGE and TGB on Mac / PC that will let you guys get going in earnest on Mac / PC right away targeting the 480x320 and 320x480 resolution outputs. Your current TGE and TGB project will accept these changes easily, so no worries about porting to these upcoming updates.
Here's what we're going to do:
Indie Licensing (non-transferable, per seat, for those licensees with less than $250k annual turnover)
For current owners of TGE:
$500 for the iTGE SDK and right to publish 1 title. $100 per title thereafter. No royalties, ever.
For current owners of TGB:
$500 for the iTGB SDK and right to publish 1 title. $100 per title thereafter. No royalties, ever.
Commercial Licensing (transferable, per seat)
For current owners of TGE:
$1000 for the iTGE SDK and right to publish 1 title. $500 per title thereafter. No royalties, ever.
For current owners of TGB:
$1000 for the iTGB SDK and right to publish 1 title. $500 per title thereafter. No royalties, ever.
As of now, we'll only be providing the SDK under the terms above to Commercial licensees, but we'll be opening it up under the Indie License and price very soon. Those who are participating in the ongoing development of the SDK will have rights to produce unlimited titles at no cost (thanks again to those of you helping speed this up). If any of you will be at PAX, come see us and we'll be showing some demo iTorque apps live. Cool stuff =)
FAQ
Q. How do I get iTorque?
A. Right now iTorque is only available under Commercial license. Indie licenses will be available shortly. Contact licensing@garagegames.com for more information or to purchase a license.
Q. I'm making a TGE / TGB game now. Will it work with iTGE / iTGB on the iPhone?
A. Yes. Nearly all TGE's features will be supported, but as always, you'll need to watch your memory and consider the hardware. The input mapping is obviously different as well, so you'll need to consider that in your game design.
Q. I want to buy a license for an unlimited number of developers / titles. Do you offer any other choices?
A. Yes. Studio licenses will start at $10k for the SDK and first title. An unlimited number of titles will be more. Contact licensing@garagegames.com for more details.
Q. I'm an Indie. Why can't I license iTorque at the Indie price now?
A. We're concerned that the product will be too difficult to work with for most amateur hobbyist developers at this stage, so only after we're satisfied that the documentation is solid and learning curve is not so steep will we roll this out under the Indie License.
Q. Will iTorque require a splash screen?
A. Yes.
Q. Will iTorque developers be able to share code resources on GG.com?
A. Yes. We'll make sure that the Torque community is free to work together on projects. We're working with Apple on this now. It may be a condition of the license agreement that you agree to post code / script resources on private forums only where other iTorque licensees have access.
Q. Will iTorque work with TGEA games? Will we ever see iTGEA?
A. Not at the moment. TGEA does offer some performance advantages, even at the fixed function level over TGE. The code is also cleaner and has been used by our studio more recently to produce games. The biggest advantage of TGEA over TGE, the advanced visual features like shaders and such, will not be portable to the iPhone though. The iPhone hardware won't support shaders. There may be reason in the future to deprecate these features in a port of TGEA to create an iTGEA though.
Q. Will iTorque work with Torque X / XNA games?
A. No. The iPhone uses an OpenGL ES graphics layer that's not at all compatible with Torque X or XNA.
Any other questions? Feel free to ask in the comments.
-Brett
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#2
So you're saying that when its available for the "Indies", that it won't be commercial grade? Because I think it would be the other way around, commercial grade being tools that are polished versus indie tools which may look like a turd and break sometimes, but still be functional...
It is also a little bit offensive to be called "non-pro/expert", just because we don't have a Commercial license... I'm sure there are more professionals/experts who have Indie licenses than Commercial licenses.
08/20/2008 (5:36 pm)
"We're nearing the level of documentation and ease of use where I think we'll be comfortable opening this up full bore at Indie prices soon, but for now, this is for pros / experts only. We want to ensure only those who won't be frustrated by commercial grade tools will be working with it at this stage"So you're saying that when its available for the "Indies", that it won't be commercial grade? Because I think it would be the other way around, commercial grade being tools that are polished versus indie tools which may look like a turd and break sometimes, but still be functional...
It is also a little bit offensive to be called "non-pro/expert", just because we don't have a Commercial license... I'm sure there are more professionals/experts who have Indie licenses than Commercial licenses.
#3
I like. Well done ;)
edit: added quote tags
08/20/2008 (6:04 pm)
Quote:$500 for the iTGE SDK and right to publish 1 title. $100 per title thereafter. No royalties, ever.
I like. Well done ;)
edit: added quote tags
#4
So, if anybody considers this price too high or are just afraid you will end with an untransferable unusable engine license, just code your game for the appropiate resolution (i.e. 480x320) using TGE/TGB in your PC and when you have your game completely polished and ready to distribute, buy your iTorque license and go for it (in other words and to put it bluntly, put our money where your mouth is).
Its a wonderful scheme. Personally I would consider lowering the indie entry price as the indie will still have to buy an iPhone for testing and pay the annual Apple SDK, but this is completely affordable anyway.
Luck!
Guimo
08/20/2008 (6:13 pm)
This is great news. So, if anybody considers this price too high or are just afraid you will end with an untransferable unusable engine license, just code your game for the appropiate resolution (i.e. 480x320) using TGE/TGB in your PC and when you have your game completely polished and ready to distribute, buy your iTorque license and go for it (in other words and to put it bluntly, put our money where your mouth is).
Its a wonderful scheme. Personally I would consider lowering the indie entry price as the indie will still have to buy an iPhone for testing and pay the annual Apple SDK, but this is completely affordable anyway.
Luck!
Guimo
#5
i think the point he's making is that, in fact, SDKs for hobbyists actually need to be *more* polished than those intended for commercial users. which makes sense. a commercial user is someone who's got the time to spend really understanding something and coming to grips w/ any rough spots it may have, while a hobbyist just doesn't have that sort of time, and so needs a more polished SDK.
08/20/2008 (6:14 pm)
> Because I think it would be the other way around, commercial grade being tools that are polished versus indie tools which may look like a turd and break sometimes, but still be functional...i think the point he's making is that, in fact, SDKs for hobbyists actually need to be *more* polished than those intended for commercial users. which makes sense. a commercial user is someone who's got the time to spend really understanding something and coming to grips w/ any rough spots it may have, while a hobbyist just doesn't have that sort of time, and so needs a more polished SDK.
#6
08/20/2008 (6:29 pm)
Orion's exactly right. I know it doesn't seem to make sense on the face of it, but that's the way it works. Less experience = more polish / more testing / more work. 
#7
@Orion: That's exactly right... a *lot* of work goes into making our tech as indie friendly as possible... commercial studios (that make over $250,000 year annual income) are generally used to much rougher edges... especially on emerging platforms. There isn't any slight intended and as with everything there are exceptions.
08/20/2008 (6:32 pm)
@Brett: Awesome :) That looks great!@Orion: That's exactly right... a *lot* of work goes into making our tech as indie friendly as possible... commercial studios (that make over $250,000 year annual income) are generally used to much rougher edges... especially on emerging platforms. There isn't any slight intended and as with everything there are exceptions.
#8
08/20/2008 (8:46 pm)
Well done. I think it's great you solicited opinions from the community and really took that to heart. I doubt my project would run on that system, but it sure would be cool to try.
#9
08/20/2008 (9:06 pm)
Well done sirs! Thanks for listening. Is the commercial license available right now?
#10
Anyway, great news about the tech.
08/20/2008 (9:40 pm)
The term "indie" used to mean something here at Garage Games ...Anyway, great news about the tech.
#11
08/20/2008 (9:47 pm)
Brett - great work. It makes it afforadble for us, and we'll definitely be getting the indie version when it comes out. Hopefully we'll have our game prepped by then. Thank you yet again. 
#12
08/21/2008 (1:13 am)
Unbelievably cool news! Where do I sign!?
#13
I don't stop reading that you need to buy an iPhone to work with iTGE. But it seems to me that you can buy an iPod Touch to test on it (it's just an iPhone without phone and GPS).
When your product is near completion, you can buy your iPhone and the right to distribute via the appStore to be sure iPod Touch and iPhone's owners can get and enjoy your product.
Nicolas Buquet
www.buquet-net.com/cv/
08/21/2008 (2:02 am)
I think it's a well balanced pricing scheme. Thanks for listening GG.I don't stop reading that you need to buy an iPhone to work with iTGE. But it seems to me that you can buy an iPod Touch to test on it (it's just an iPhone without phone and GPS).
When your product is near completion, you can buy your iPhone and the right to distribute via the appStore to be sure iPod Touch and iPhone's owners can get and enjoy your product.
Nicolas Buquet
www.buquet-net.com/cv/
#14
Considering both of the above, it makes the whole "amateur hobbyist developers" statement seem somewhat irrelevant as the price to entry is pretty high for a average hobbyist in my opinion. Seems more expensive then the xbox live com option.
Nonetheless, having the opportunity is respected / welcomed despite my concerns :)
08/21/2008 (2:15 am)
Interesting, although I think the price seems a little apple'ish akin to the apple hardware etc in that (although not un-affordable) it's expensive itself.Quote:It is also a little bit offensive to be called "non-pro/expert", just because we don't have a Commercial license... I'm sure there are more professionals/experts who have Indie licenses than Commercial licenses.Yeah, I thought the statement/excuse read a little like that too, I'm sure theres a few peeps without a 250k turnover that can handle the product in it's current state.
Considering both of the above, it makes the whole "amateur hobbyist developers" statement seem somewhat irrelevant as the price to entry is pretty high for a average hobbyist in my opinion. Seems more expensive then the xbox live com option.
Nonetheless, having the opportunity is respected / welcomed despite my concerns :)
#15
08/21/2008 (3:17 am)
Unity3D is a far better option for indies wanting their games on the iPhone than Torque. 
#16
Unity Pro on its own is already $1500 and the iPhone Support is an addon to that, at least it seems so.
The rest of the licensing is not even known (royality, per title fee, ...)
We are currently evaluating both.
The main benefit we would see in unity is the possibility to deploy to standalone + iPhone + web. The later would be a nice extension to the concept as it extends the "its with you, whereever you are" factor.
But its not elemental and if it was we could do it with Torque as well from what we have researched so far.
The main benefit of the torque side is that you have access to the source (don't know about iTorque but for sure its base technology) which gives the possibility to integrate 3rd party libraries like Medialytics which is something I seriously want to include if possible.
08/21/2008 (6:23 am)
Not sure on that JacobinUnity Pro on its own is already $1500 and the iPhone Support is an addon to that, at least it seems so.
The rest of the licensing is not even known (royality, per title fee, ...)
We are currently evaluating both.
The main benefit we would see in unity is the possibility to deploy to standalone + iPhone + web. The later would be a nice extension to the concept as it extends the "its with you, whereever you are" factor.
But its not elemental and if it was we could do it with Torque as well from what we have researched so far.
The main benefit of the torque side is that you have access to the source (don't know about iTorque but for sure its base technology) which gives the possibility to integrate 3rd party libraries like Medialytics which is something I seriously want to include if possible.
#17
Yes, I do. This is being responsible, not being patronising.
08/21/2008 (6:23 am)
Er... have you seen how much crap GG gets every day for the state of it's (in my opinion, high quality and polished) existing engines? Do I understand their desire not to have a thousand idiot kids who've never coded a game before asking for their money back?Yes, I do. This is being responsible, not being patronising.
#18
Anyway not sure if this has been asked, but what if you release a game/app for free? Do you still have to pay a per title fee?
08/21/2008 (8:21 am)
Well done GG. I like these licensing models all though I think you could have gotten away with a lower annual turnover of say $50k.Anyway not sure if this has been asked, but what if you release a game/app for free? Do you still have to pay a per title fee?
#19
Excellent pricing models, I'll be sure to grab one very shortly and get to work!
08/21/2008 (9:15 am)
You're welcome, Brett! Just don't forget the TM symbol and put my name right alongside "GarageGames."Excellent pricing models, I'll be sure to grab one very shortly and get to work!
#20
08/21/2008 (9:22 am)
Cheers Brett. 
Torque 3D Owner James
The problem is the silhouette is very confused.
Congrats on the release!