Cartography Shop support for Map2Dif..
by John Kabus (BobTheCBuilder) · 08/31/2003 (6:55 pm) · 29 comments
Download Code File
"What the hell is CSM2Map?!?"
CSM2Map is a code patch for Map2Dif that allows Map2Dif to load CSM (Cartography Shop) files. This version of CSM2Map works with version 2 of the CSM file format (Cartography Shop software version 3).
"How does it work?"
The change to Map2Dif allows it to detect and re-route CSM source files through the CSM2Map code, generating a map file from the source CSM files. The optional '-m' command line switch can be used to skip the Map2Dif code, effectively acting as a pure CSM2Map converter (as opposed to the CSM->Map Map->Dif pipeline).
"Does it support portals and lights?"
Yes. By selecting an object in Cartography Shop (CS) and choosing Edit/Object Properties from the menu, you can add name/value pairs. These pairs are the equivalent to tying an object to an entity in Hammer. For instance, if I wanted to create a portal I would add the following name/value pairs to my brush:
"classname" "portal" //defines a portal class..
"ambient_light" "1" //allows ambient light into the interior..
The same applies for lights, HOWEVER CSM2Map will automatically convert CSM light entities and their custom properties to Map2Dif friendly values ("light_omni", "falloff2", ..). This way CS can still properly light your scene during editing, while allowing Map2Dif to understand the lighting info.
"Does CSM2Map use?"
CSM2Map only supports CS features that can be transferred via Map format. Due to limitations to the Map format, not all features can be supported; this includes CS generated light maps and meshes (which could be added with a process similar to the Max2Map exporter; each poly becoming a brush).
Enjoy..
John Kabus.
"What the hell is CSM2Map?!?"
CSM2Map is a code patch for Map2Dif that allows Map2Dif to load CSM (Cartography Shop) files. This version of CSM2Map works with version 2 of the CSM file format (Cartography Shop software version 3).
"How does it work?"
The change to Map2Dif allows it to detect and re-route CSM source files through the CSM2Map code, generating a map file from the source CSM files. The optional '-m' command line switch can be used to skip the Map2Dif code, effectively acting as a pure CSM2Map converter (as opposed to the CSM->Map Map->Dif pipeline).
"Does it support portals and lights?"
Yes. By selecting an object in Cartography Shop (CS) and choosing Edit/Object Properties from the menu, you can add name/value pairs. These pairs are the equivalent to tying an object to an entity in Hammer. For instance, if I wanted to create a portal I would add the following name/value pairs to my brush:
"classname" "portal" //defines a portal class..
"ambient_light" "1" //allows ambient light into the interior..
The same applies for lights, HOWEVER CSM2Map will automatically convert CSM light entities and their custom properties to Map2Dif friendly values ("light_omni", "falloff2", ..). This way CS can still properly light your scene during editing, while allowing Map2Dif to understand the lighting info.
"Does CSM2Map use
CSM2Map only supports CS features that can be transferred via Map format. Due to limitations to the Map format, not all features can be supported; this includes CS generated light maps and meshes (which could be added with a process similar to the Max2Map exporter; each poly becoming a brush).
Enjoy..
John Kabus.
#2
09/01/2003 (8:45 am)
looks like this resource wont be active till the guys get back from labor day it gives me a chance to work on some maps. Thanks for this john the community will respect this.
#3
John, Wow... so that means there is no need to save it to *.map, but just load it directly? Too bad the CS generated lightmaps can't be used--that cathederal w/hi-res maps looks cool! ;-)
09/01/2003 (10:05 am)
Alex, they have a demo you can d/l there--it just won't save your files. The reason behind using it is that it is similar to Hammer in look-n-feel, but doesnt have the license questions that Hammer has (There is question as to whether it's legal to use Hammer for TGE projects or not).John, Wow... so that means there is no need to save it to *.map, but just load it directly? Too bad the CS generated lightmaps can't be used--that cathederal w/hi-res maps looks cool! ;-)
#4
CShop can be used to avoid the licensing issues with Hammer, other than that they're about the same. It's still buggy, but updates are constantly in the works (so I hear). I imagine that in a few months CShop will be as stable as Hammer.
David,
Thanks, I hope people find it useful.
Eric,
That's right *.csm directly to *.dif.
I know... technically it wouldn't be _TOO_ difficult to implement (just mostly a pain); unfortunately I just don't have the time right now. I figured this would at least give the community something to start with. Besides, with the code I've provided to load the CSM files, it should be a lot easier for people to expand on the resource.
When you get a hold of the code let me know what you think. Keep in mind that I knocked this thing together in six hours, so it's not very pretty, but it works (as you can see from my rant www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=12465).
John.
09/02/2003 (7:48 am)
Alex,CShop can be used to avoid the licensing issues with Hammer, other than that they're about the same. It's still buggy, but updates are constantly in the works (so I hear). I imagine that in a few months CShop will be as stable as Hammer.
David,
Thanks, I hope people find it useful.
Eric,
That's right *.csm directly to *.dif.
Quote:
Too bad the CS generated lightmaps can't be used
I know... technically it wouldn't be _TOO_ difficult to implement (just mostly a pain); unfortunately I just don't have the time right now. I figured this would at least give the community something to start with. Besides, with the code I've provided to load the CSM files, it should be a lot easier for people to expand on the resource.
When you get a hold of the code let me know what you think. Keep in mind that I knocked this thing together in six hours, so it's not very pretty, but it works (as you can see from my rant www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=12465).
John.
#5
We are using it for it's ".X" exporter. We have a small presentaion contract in which we are using Quest 3d as an engine. CS comes in real handy on that end. In this case we can use the lightmaps. NICE!
It would be nice to see a full up DIF exporter for it. I really think its possible.
It has alot of advantages over Quark because of the vertice manipulation. I don't use worldcraft often enough to compare.
Personally I like it better than quark and I hope to see it take off.
Maybe we can CON GG into writing full support for it and maybe the guy who wrote it will let them sell it >$$$$< MAYBE!
Matt
09/02/2003 (5:13 pm)
I recently got this product and it is a very nice Enviroment model tool. It does have bugs and I get the feeling not all of it well supported (3dsmax prefab exporter) but the potential is there for a good map editor. Plugin support is a good part of the SDK. It could be possible to totally incorperate it into the TGE art pipleine. And you can distribute it with your finished game. Giving the advantage of becoming a MOD development solution.We are using it for it's ".X" exporter. We have a small presentaion contract in which we are using Quest 3d as an engine. CS comes in real handy on that end. In this case we can use the lightmaps. NICE!
It would be nice to see a full up DIF exporter for it. I really think its possible.
It has alot of advantages over Quark because of the vertice manipulation. I don't use worldcraft often enough to compare.
Personally I like it better than quark and I hope to see it take off.
Maybe we can CON GG into writing full support for it and maybe the guy who wrote it will let them sell it >$$$$< MAYBE!
Matt
#6
09/03/2003 (8:14 am)
@Eric: there is no issue with using Hammer as if i'm correct, they give a right to garagegame torque owner to use Hammer to create map (it's in the news section of GG, I think). Of course, it's from memory and I did not check it ;)
#7
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=7246
It may be outdated (not sure), but to be safe I've been sticking to it.
09/03/2003 (9:50 am)
This is the last piece of info I've been able to find on the Hammer issue:www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=7246
It may be outdated (not sure), but to be safe I've been sticking to it.
#8
I think the problem lies in that Valve never changed their EULA. Could be as simple as that they forgot? :-)
-EricF
Edit: changed url title
09/03/2003 (11:49 am)
This is what Frank was referring to: Valve OK's Use of Worldcraft in TorqueI think the problem lies in that Valve never changed their EULA. Could be as simple as that they forgot? :-)
-EricF
Edit: changed url title
#9
[quote]
Never got it. It
09/03/2003 (11:58 am)
Yes, I'm familiar with that post; however five months later Tunnell posted this:[quote]
Never got it. It
#10
02/19/2004 (7:28 am)
John...is this works with CS4 too ?
#12
Its really hard to wait for those stuff John ;)
Keep in touch.
02/20/2004 (10:56 am)
Thanks for quick answer here :)Its really hard to wait for those stuff John ;)
Keep in touch.
#13
02/20/2004 (2:29 pm)
Not a problem, I
#14
03/21/2004 (10:29 pm)
Bob: Any update on this?
#15
Sorry I didn't catch your post sooner. I just post a response to a similar question here:
www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=5206
"Hey Chris,
The core sdk for Xdif is nearly complete, after I wrap up the sdk I
04/06/2004 (8:04 pm)
Hey Chris,Sorry I didn't catch your post sooner. I just post a response to a similar question here:
www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=5206
"Hey Chris,
The core sdk for Xdif is nearly complete, after I wrap up the sdk I
#16
04/06/2004 (9:28 pm)
Wow, this sounds very exciting. I had originally written Cshop off, but I'm starting to see its benifits over quark. Good luck John 
#17
04/17/2004 (1:20 pm)
Will the new version support the lightmaps?
#18
05/07/2004 (7:37 am)
I'm working on an updated version of CSM2DIF that supports CShop v4.X CSM formats - drop me an email if you're interested in seeing this finished.
#19
would it be possible to obtain a copy.
mail . i3dmax@hotmail.com
thanks
maxd
06/09/2004 (6:22 am)
hi ed... would love to get hold of your plugins for cartographyshop4 for exporting to .map and to gile(s)would it be possible to obtain a copy.
mail . i3dmax@hotmail.com
thanks
maxd
#20
Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of time to work on the v4.X CSM2DIF converter lately,
but I did get parts working - parsing the CSM v4 files works, and the
geometry is converted to .MAP correctly. I just need to get the texture
coordinates worked out (evidentally, in CShop v4.X, something is different
with the MAP-style texture coords that are included in the CSM file).
As was noted with CSM2DIF, it doesn't keep the lightmaps intact. John has
graciously provided his code changes, so gurus out there with scads of
time can look into bringing the lightmaps in, and avoid the
convert-to-MAP-then-convert-to-DIF approach. Frankly, there is a *lot* of
code involved, and while I conceptually understand the "process" that
MAP2DIF uses to convert to DIF, I don't fully understand the nitty-gritty
I need to do to skip the MAP file creation step. It might not be too
bad... but I'm still very newb wrt TGE... 8-(
So, for the first cut, I'll try to keep the light entities intact so they
can be used by the normal MAP2DIF part of the code, and hopefully, similar
lighting results can be achieved without actually keeping the lightmaps...
i.e., you can get MAP2DIF-calculated lightmaps instead of the
CShop-calculated lightmaps. I'm not really sure how the two tools differ
in this capability...
As an alternative to waiting, you might check the Cartography Shop forum here:
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_read&i=13
to see if anyone is working on any related TGE stuff.
Side note: Anyone think it'd be useful to make a simple change in the DIF
rendering code to allow UV-style texture coords as opposed to MAP-style
texture coords?
06/09/2004 (6:55 am)
Hi,Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of time to work on the v4.X CSM2DIF converter lately,
but I did get parts working - parsing the CSM v4 files works, and the
geometry is converted to .MAP correctly. I just need to get the texture
coordinates worked out (evidentally, in CShop v4.X, something is different
with the MAP-style texture coords that are included in the CSM file).
As was noted with CSM2DIF, it doesn't keep the lightmaps intact. John has
graciously provided his code changes, so gurus out there with scads of
time can look into bringing the lightmaps in, and avoid the
convert-to-MAP-then-convert-to-DIF approach. Frankly, there is a *lot* of
code involved, and while I conceptually understand the "process" that
MAP2DIF uses to convert to DIF, I don't fully understand the nitty-gritty
I need to do to skip the MAP file creation step. It might not be too
bad... but I'm still very newb wrt TGE... 8-(
So, for the first cut, I'll try to keep the light entities intact so they
can be used by the normal MAP2DIF part of the code, and hopefully, similar
lighting results can be achieved without actually keeping the lightmaps...
i.e., you can get MAP2DIF-calculated lightmaps instead of the
CShop-calculated lightmaps. I'm not really sure how the two tools differ
in this capability...
As an alternative to waiting, you might check the Cartography Shop forum here:
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_read&i=13
to see if anyone is working on any related TGE stuff.
Side note: Anyone think it'd be useful to make a simple change in the DIF
rendering code to allow UV-style texture coords as opposed to MAP-style
texture coords?
Torque Owner Alex \"bathala\" Rufon
I'm basically a programmer ... so my question is how is this better than Hammer (its the only product of this kind I was able to use)?
Can anybody provide links to comparison, customer review or something like that?
Thanks.
edit: fixed the url link