Sales Reports?
by Kirby Webber · in General Discussion · 03/13/2003 (6:10 am) · 28 replies
This may be going a bit out on a limb, but what the heck.
It *feels* lately like the gaming community at large is taking more and more notice of Garage Games and its developers. A VERY good thing to say the least.
That said, I began to wonder how this increase in interest might be affecting the sales of the available titles here at GG.
I think there are a fair number of *serious* minded developers here, that is those that want to get published so badly that we can taste it. I'm sure that of those, the lions share would give their eyeteeth to have a look at some sales figures on at least a semi-annual basis.
The reason that I ask is this. There are some among the community, who do have avenues into the box market, albeit with a number of provisions, but those avenues exist.
Ones "knee-jerk" reaction might indicate that you'd have to be a fool to pass that up, after all, a smaller piece of a much larger pie is better than a larger piece of a smaller pie right? Maybe not.
Consider that a game in the box market has shelf prominence for a few months, unless it's a "blockbuster" title, and then it gradually disappears from the shelves. That means that while many publishers in the box channels can grant you wide-spread exposure (geographically speaking of course) and potentially larger profits, they can only do so for a limited period of time, after which it becomes less and less profitable to maintain market penetration. Top this off with the idea that as a first time indy developer you'll do well to see 30% of those profits, and things get a widdle scwewy with the math!
Contrast this with the GG model, wherein you do not pay for packaging, keep the lions share of your profits, and have much of the legwork regarding support, marketing, distribution, etc. done for you without incurring additional costs. Add to that the current trend of increasing interest in GG, continuing support for titles *long* after they would have been taken off the shelves, and you have a superior business model with the potential to give the box channels a SERIOUS run for its money. (IMHO)
All of this is, of course, purely conjecture and opinion at this stage, which brings me back to the point of this thread. How about providing some hard numbers so that we can see how well the current business model is working? I for one would prefer to make a little less per month over a span of years, than to make a little more over a span of months.
Lets face it... we all dream of quitting our day jobs, and running a successful development company right? Well, most of us do ~I think~. This may or may not be possible depending on our individual success, but it would sure be easier to plan if we had strong data to use in the process. I may not be able to quit my job anytime soon, but if and when I do get published, I would like to be able to make an intelligent and informed decision regarding how, where, and with whom to do so. I suspect that GG will be a MAJOR consideration in that equation.
I realize that it may be a bit premature to actually release a sales report, but is it to early to discuss there possibility?
So... how about guys?
It *feels* lately like the gaming community at large is taking more and more notice of Garage Games and its developers. A VERY good thing to say the least.
That said, I began to wonder how this increase in interest might be affecting the sales of the available titles here at GG.
I think there are a fair number of *serious* minded developers here, that is those that want to get published so badly that we can taste it. I'm sure that of those, the lions share would give their eyeteeth to have a look at some sales figures on at least a semi-annual basis.
The reason that I ask is this. There are some among the community, who do have avenues into the box market, albeit with a number of provisions, but those avenues exist.
Ones "knee-jerk" reaction might indicate that you'd have to be a fool to pass that up, after all, a smaller piece of a much larger pie is better than a larger piece of a smaller pie right? Maybe not.
Consider that a game in the box market has shelf prominence for a few months, unless it's a "blockbuster" title, and then it gradually disappears from the shelves. That means that while many publishers in the box channels can grant you wide-spread exposure (geographically speaking of course) and potentially larger profits, they can only do so for a limited period of time, after which it becomes less and less profitable to maintain market penetration. Top this off with the idea that as a first time indy developer you'll do well to see 30% of those profits, and things get a widdle scwewy with the math!
Contrast this with the GG model, wherein you do not pay for packaging, keep the lions share of your profits, and have much of the legwork regarding support, marketing, distribution, etc. done for you without incurring additional costs. Add to that the current trend of increasing interest in GG, continuing support for titles *long* after they would have been taken off the shelves, and you have a superior business model with the potential to give the box channels a SERIOUS run for its money. (IMHO)
All of this is, of course, purely conjecture and opinion at this stage, which brings me back to the point of this thread. How about providing some hard numbers so that we can see how well the current business model is working? I for one would prefer to make a little less per month over a span of years, than to make a little more over a span of months.
Lets face it... we all dream of quitting our day jobs, and running a successful development company right? Well, most of us do ~I think~. This may or may not be possible depending on our individual success, but it would sure be easier to plan if we had strong data to use in the process. I may not be able to quit my job anytime soon, but if and when I do get published, I would like to be able to make an intelligent and informed decision regarding how, where, and with whom to do so. I suspect that GG will be a MAJOR consideration in that equation.
I realize that it may be a bit premature to actually release a sales report, but is it to early to discuss there possibility?
So... how about guys?
#2
I am basically interested to see just how much of an impact the collective experience of the GG team can have on an independent developer. Let's hope they feel secure releasing a little information.
Also, I would like to re-iterate that I understand that it is currently too early to release a sales report and get an accurate reflection of how well the business model is working.... But perhaps at year-end... ?
03/13/2003 (6:57 am)
Mike,if I may call you that, you bring up a valid and interesting point regarding the confidentiality of the sales figures. Ironically, it is the success of 21-6 and Orbz that I am most interested in! Not that I don't care for the success of JT and the GG crew, but rather that I see 21-6 as something of a pioneer for the rest of us out here still hacking away at our titles.I am basically interested to see just how much of an impact the collective experience of the GG team can have on an independent developer. Let's hope they feel secure releasing a little information.
Also, I would like to re-iterate that I understand that it is currently too early to release a sales report and get an accurate reflection of how well the business model is working.... But perhaps at year-end... ?
#3
Well, from what I've read on GameDev.net (article here) during Jeff's 'Quit Your Job Fair' session, Marble Blast sold 1000 units in three months. And Jeff predicted that the game would make $150k to $200k throughout the course of its lifetime based on unit sales.
- LightWave Dave
03/13/2003 (11:30 am)
Greetings!Well, from what I've read on GameDev.net (article here) during Jeff's 'Quit Your Job Fair' session, Marble Blast sold 1000 units in three months. And Jeff predicted that the game would make $150k to $200k throughout the course of its lifetime based on unit sales.
- LightWave Dave
#4
1. Word of mouth ( real world and online forums )
2. Internet reviews / searches
3. Magazine/Television reviews/advertisements
I TiVo Extended Play and there is usually at least one game reviewed that I might be interested it. Otherwise I had quit watching it because I am such as niche games 99% of what they review I could care less about. TiVo lets me scan the show like I scan magazines! :)
I don't think that having a box on the shelf and that people buy games on impulse anymore, pre-1994 - 1995 yes, but most people buying top shelf titled games are pretty well informed.
I mean how many times have you walked into an EB and saw a game you had NEVER heard of and bought it right there on the spot without any research?
The only things that really fit this "impulse" buy are licensed titles, I bought Monoply Party for the PS2 on a whim, at $29.99 it was reasonable to do this price wise, and me and my wife love Monoply.
I don't think I would buy anything other genre games without first doing lots of research.
03/13/2003 (4:08 pm)
I would think that with the Internet most gamer consumers get their info on new games from three places.1. Word of mouth ( real world and online forums )
2. Internet reviews / searches
3. Magazine/Television reviews/advertisements
I TiVo Extended Play and there is usually at least one game reviewed that I might be interested it. Otherwise I had quit watching it because I am such as niche games 99% of what they review I could care less about. TiVo lets me scan the show like I scan magazines! :)
I don't think that having a box on the shelf and that people buy games on impulse anymore, pre-1994 - 1995 yes, but most people buying top shelf titled games are pretty well informed.
I mean how many times have you walked into an EB and saw a game you had NEVER heard of and bought it right there on the spot without any research?
The only things that really fit this "impulse" buy are licensed titles, I bought Monoply Party for the PS2 on a whim, at $29.99 it was reasonable to do this price wise, and me and my wife love Monoply.
I don't think I would buy anything other genre games without first doing lots of research.
#5
As it is, there isnt enough of a sample to be valid. For instance, not everyone wants to buy orbz, marble blast etc.
Of course they could provide ballpark figures, thats true.
But if you want ballpark, just make it up yourself, as there really isnt a limit beyond how well you can market your product.
Phil.
03/13/2003 (4:45 pm)
Its a bit unfair to base youre estimated sales on the relatively few games that GG have up so far. Give it another 2 to 3 years and we should have a better idea of what to expect.As it is, there isnt enough of a sample to be valid. For instance, not everyone wants to buy orbz, marble blast etc.
Of course they could provide ballpark figures, thats true.
But if you want ballpark, just make it up yourself, as there really isnt a limit beyond how well you can market your product.
Phil.
#6
03/14/2003 (8:40 am)
In my humble opinion even selling 10 titles is a moderate, yet still nice success for an indie dev studio - compared to not getting a publisher and not selling units at all (which happened to guys I know and ultimately made them go out of business). The GG model will certainly work out, but Phil is right that it takes some more time. The GG community will learn, though, get better at it and profit in the long run.
#7
03/14/2003 (9:23 am)
My first indie game sold 10 copies :)
#8
The above, of course, is true, but what it does not encompass is that 1) GG has more experience and expertise when it comes to these kinds of estimations, 2) GG is privy to information that I am not when it comes to said estimations (sales, traffic, etc.) and 3) the marketing ability in question is precicely that of GG.
I'm an intelligent enough individual, and I'm sure that many among us are, to see trends within numbers. I understand that the figures provided at the end of this year won't be an accurate reflection of those provided next year, but that should be a given in a growing business, should it not? Hopefully next years numbers will dwarf those of this years with the player site still being "fledgling" and all.
Also, I'm not looking for the kind of play by play that a shareholder would require from a corporation or anything, but a rough guage of how the GG business model is working, Just some raw data really.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to "squeeze" anyone for information, I just feel as an indy, the more informed and intelligent decisions I can make, the better off I'll be in the long run. (C:
In the end, it's ultimately at the discretion of you good folks at GG. It won't offend me in the slightest if you were to decide against it, but if you decided for it, it could be as big a boone to the community (in some ways) as the release of Torque. ( I hate calling it the Torque... it just feels like bad grammar. ;-)
[Edit = grammar]
03/14/2003 (11:45 am)
Phil, I understand what you are saying, but please allow me to point something out:Quote:
Of course they could provide ballpark figures, thats true.
But if you want ballpark, just make it up yourself, as there really isnt a limit beyond how well you can market your product.
The above, of course, is true, but what it does not encompass is that 1) GG has more experience and expertise when it comes to these kinds of estimations, 2) GG is privy to information that I am not when it comes to said estimations (sales, traffic, etc.) and 3) the marketing ability in question is precicely that of GG.
I'm an intelligent enough individual, and I'm sure that many among us are, to see trends within numbers. I understand that the figures provided at the end of this year won't be an accurate reflection of those provided next year, but that should be a given in a growing business, should it not? Hopefully next years numbers will dwarf those of this years with the player site still being "fledgling" and all.
Also, I'm not looking for the kind of play by play that a shareholder would require from a corporation or anything, but a rough guage of how the GG business model is working, Just some raw data really.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to "squeeze" anyone for information, I just feel as an indy, the more informed and intelligent decisions I can make, the better off I'll be in the long run. (C:
In the end, it's ultimately at the discretion of you good folks at GG. It won't offend me in the slightest if you were to decide against it, but if you decided for it, it could be as big a boone to the community (in some ways) as the release of Torque. ( I hate calling it the Torque... it just feels like bad grammar. ;-)
[Edit = grammar]
#9
Regardless of that, we will make a lot of money from Marble Blast, of course, not all games will be MB. MB is by far the best selling game on GG. Orbz is very disappointing, but the lesson here is that a small indie cannot release a multi-player only game. There is simply not enough audience to get the critical mass needed to have a fun experience. That is why the 21-6 guys are retooling for single player, and why Think Tanks was delayed enough to allow addition of single player missions.
GG is just now getting its games sales efforts up to speed. It has taken us 2 1/2 years to get to where we are in the developer space. A similar amount of time will be needed for our game sales efforts to really pay off.
In the meantime, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the amount of effort that we will be putting into the player's site. Good games like Chain Reaction, Think Tanks, and Orbz will make money in the box channel, OEM channels, internationally, on the MAC, in the Linux channel, etc. All of these little income streams will add up. For instance, I just came to agreement today to have our titles sold in Russia (there are many, many of these type of deals on the table). It is not a huge deal, but enough of these small deals eventually add up to real money.
Like I stated at GDC, we are extremely confident that MB will end up making $150,000- $200,000 within its first 18 months of life. This is not a guess, but is based on back end knowledge, guarantees, etc.
Will your game sell as good as MB? I don't know. Right now MB is like our best game of golf. It is the measuring stick for all other titles. What I can say is that is will certainly be well worth the effort we put into it.
Once we are beyond the NDA's, and can talk in more detail about what is going on, we will give you the info.
Jeff Tunnell GG
03/14/2003 (12:13 pm)
I did a presentation at the GDC called Quit Your Job Fair. In it, I gave the current sales for Marble Blast as well as some projections based on future information that I cannot talk about right now. I don't want to turn this small forum post into a GG press release and I cannot go against NDA's.Regardless of that, we will make a lot of money from Marble Blast, of course, not all games will be MB. MB is by far the best selling game on GG. Orbz is very disappointing, but the lesson here is that a small indie cannot release a multi-player only game. There is simply not enough audience to get the critical mass needed to have a fun experience. That is why the 21-6 guys are retooling for single player, and why Think Tanks was delayed enough to allow addition of single player missions.
GG is just now getting its games sales efforts up to speed. It has taken us 2 1/2 years to get to where we are in the developer space. A similar amount of time will be needed for our game sales efforts to really pay off.
In the meantime, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the amount of effort that we will be putting into the player's site. Good games like Chain Reaction, Think Tanks, and Orbz will make money in the box channel, OEM channels, internationally, on the MAC, in the Linux channel, etc. All of these little income streams will add up. For instance, I just came to agreement today to have our titles sold in Russia (there are many, many of these type of deals on the table). It is not a huge deal, but enough of these small deals eventually add up to real money.
Like I stated at GDC, we are extremely confident that MB will end up making $150,000- $200,000 within its first 18 months of life. This is not a guess, but is based on back end knowledge, guarantees, etc.
Will your game sell as good as MB? I don't know. Right now MB is like our best game of golf. It is the measuring stick for all other titles. What I can say is that is will certainly be well worth the effort we put into it.
Once we are beyond the NDA's, and can talk in more detail about what is going on, we will give you the info.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#10
Thanks for providing the long term perspective. As the Marketing Guy here at GarageGames, I think everyone should know it is our commitment to keep it real and over deliver rather than over promise. Most of the larger volume opportunities are still under non-disclosure, but we did let people know at GDC that a box deal is in the works for Marble Blast and Chain Reaction (more details to come), we'll be posting news items about our partnerships with GameSpy, IGN, Lindows and others in the near future.
World Domination Through Collaboration
Even more exciting to me is the buzz that the GarageGames community is creating in letting other gamers know about what we're doing here. If you're part of another player or developer community, I'd love to know about how we can connect and build a relationship with them, email me jaym@garagegames.com.
Our goal is to not limit, but expand the quality and value of the distribution opportunities that independents have access to. It is to that end we are building up the GarageGames brand to be the best showcase of independent games. GDC was an excellent confirmation that if you do quality work it will be in demand, ask the 21-6 and BraveTree guys.
03/14/2003 (12:20 pm)
Phil,Thanks for providing the long term perspective. As the Marketing Guy here at GarageGames, I think everyone should know it is our commitment to keep it real and over deliver rather than over promise. Most of the larger volume opportunities are still under non-disclosure, but we did let people know at GDC that a box deal is in the works for Marble Blast and Chain Reaction (more details to come), we'll be posting news items about our partnerships with GameSpy, IGN, Lindows and others in the near future.
World Domination Through Collaboration
Even more exciting to me is the buzz that the GarageGames community is creating in letting other gamers know about what we're doing here. If you're part of another player or developer community, I'd love to know about how we can connect and build a relationship with them, email me jaym@garagegames.com.
Our goal is to not limit, but expand the quality and value of the distribution opportunities that independents have access to. It is to that end we are building up the GarageGames brand to be the best showcase of independent games. GDC was an excellent confirmation that if you do quality work it will be in demand, ask the 21-6 and BraveTree guys.
#11
Let me first conragtulate you on the success of GDC, and secondly thank you for taking the time to answer this thread.
I'm sure that many people around the community realize what an absolute boon it will be to be able to draw off of the collective knowledge and experience of the GG crew! This is (all) excellent, excellent news guys! (C:
Color me "waiting patiently" and coding like a bat out of you know where!
03/14/2003 (12:38 pm)
WOW! Thanks to both Jeff and Jay for your responses. I was so happy when reading your responses.Let me first conragtulate you on the success of GDC, and secondly thank you for taking the time to answer this thread.
I'm sure that many people around the community realize what an absolute boon it will be to be able to draw off of the collective knowledge and experience of the GG crew! This is (all) excellent, excellent news guys! (C:
Color me "waiting patiently" and coding like a bat out of you know where!
#12
1. A versatile base AI code so these games could have scripted single player campaigns easier?
2. Perhaps a separate way to market them on the site?
3. Maybe even a server/hosting solution?
Just a few thoughts since I think alot of us might end up in 21-6's shoes with a whole lotta game to play and no one to play it against.
Disclaimer: I do not feel GG owes us any of this. I am very thankful that they have given us this opportunity. I have learned so much from this engine and the entire experience. Again, I do not feel they owe us anything further. =)
03/14/2003 (12:59 pm)
Jeff did mention something very interesting that I wanted to comment on. My studio is currently developing a multi-player online only game using Torque. While I know the engine has the capability to allow other game types, I think that based on its created focus and the fact that Tribes/Tribes 2 has brought alot of people to the engine, I am wondering if there is a way that the community might help these titles get the recognition they deserve. I am not suggesting a solution (mainly because this is the first 5 minutes I have thought to address this) but if anyone has any thoughts, please share. So we are going to end up with atleast a half-dozen other multi-player online only games wanting to be released by GG (within a year, I would guess), could we help the survival/success of these new titles? Off the top of my head:1. A versatile base AI code so these games could have scripted single player campaigns easier?
2. Perhaps a separate way to market them on the site?
3. Maybe even a server/hosting solution?
Just a few thoughts since I think alot of us might end up in 21-6's shoes with a whole lotta game to play and no one to play it against.
Disclaimer: I do not feel GG owes us any of this. I am very thankful that they have given us this opportunity. I have learned so much from this engine and the entire experience. Again, I do not feel they owe us anything further. =)
#13
1. Run a server that is always up.
2. Auto-update a server spy, maybe have some sort of small server-spy util that can be run in the background that notifies people when servers are up.
3. Concentrate on launch. A slow rollout is a bad idea, because people will trickle in, get bored, and trickle back out. IMO a good plan is release a free demo simultaneous with the real release, and make them interoperable. Then you hopefully have a bunch of people populating the servers in the first few days.
03/14/2003 (1:45 pm)
The problem with Multi-player only games is that if nobody else is online, well it's pretty boring. I think there are a couple things you can do to fight this:1. Run a server that is always up.
2. Auto-update a server spy, maybe have some sort of small server-spy util that can be run in the background that notifies people when servers are up.
3. Concentrate on launch. A slow rollout is a bad idea, because people will trickle in, get bored, and trickle back out. IMO a good plan is release a free demo simultaneous with the real release, and make them interoperable. Then you hopefully have a bunch of people populating the servers in the first few days.
#14
Multi-player only was the first "hole" we identified. Getting enough people to buy the game and be online playing is a really tough challenge considering how little units an indie game will sell at launch and over its life. Even a hit like Marble Blast, selling 300-400 copies per month, probably isn't enough to ensure there will always be a handful of people out there to play against. Note that dedicated server support hasn't really helped Orbz like we thought it would. The impression is that there are servers to play on now great but still not enough people out there to keep games going all the time.
James, you mentioned concentrating on launch which is a good idea and really essential for any game you build not just multi-player only games. A demo is also essential for the success of your game because it's your best sales device especially after the initial press releases and "buzz" wear down (usually a couple weeks after launch). I wouldn't recommend turning off your demo because you would be removing your best vehicle to drive sales.
Something we have talked about seriously is having a Beta program leading up to launch which gets people involved early and hopefully they convert to the retail version. There are a lot of "holes" in this theory of course because you end up giving away a lot of copies for Beta participants and most Beta participants won't make the switch to retail because they've seen and played the game already.
Even if your Beta goes well, you get really good press at launch, and your demo is spread like wild fire you need to sell an incredible amount of copies to get that initial rush of online players and try to hold on to them. I think there will be games on GG that outsell Marble Blast but I wouldn't be betting on a "hit" your first (or second) time out.
It's not all doom and gloom though. I just wanted to put some perspective out there on why Multi-Player only games aren't advised in this indie space. The good news is that we are trying out some remedies with Orbz and ThinkTanks that will teach us all some good information. Both games will have computer opponents, a single player game, and multi-platform support which we believe are 3 key ingredients to success for multi-player games. Of course, it's all a big experiment so we could be wrong, but the important part is that we share the information so the next wave of games to come out on GG do even better.
Our next game will be single-player first, then patch in multi-player. This has an interesting side effect of genereating a user base that translates over to multi-player when its available. Another experiment :).
03/15/2003 (8:26 am)
Quite frankly, Orbz sales figures have been lower than expected less that 25% of what Marble Blast is selling. We didn't really know what to expect with a multi-player only, non-violent game but now we do :). There has been a lot of analysis going on (and some speculation) about why the games are selling so different when they both came out at the same time and have pretty much had the same marketing done. Multi-player only was the first "hole" we identified. Getting enough people to buy the game and be online playing is a really tough challenge considering how little units an indie game will sell at launch and over its life. Even a hit like Marble Blast, selling 300-400 copies per month, probably isn't enough to ensure there will always be a handful of people out there to play against. Note that dedicated server support hasn't really helped Orbz like we thought it would. The impression is that there are servers to play on now great but still not enough people out there to keep games going all the time.
James, you mentioned concentrating on launch which is a good idea and really essential for any game you build not just multi-player only games. A demo is also essential for the success of your game because it's your best sales device especially after the initial press releases and "buzz" wear down (usually a couple weeks after launch). I wouldn't recommend turning off your demo because you would be removing your best vehicle to drive sales.
Something we have talked about seriously is having a Beta program leading up to launch which gets people involved early and hopefully they convert to the retail version. There are a lot of "holes" in this theory of course because you end up giving away a lot of copies for Beta participants and most Beta participants won't make the switch to retail because they've seen and played the game already.
Even if your Beta goes well, you get really good press at launch, and your demo is spread like wild fire you need to sell an incredible amount of copies to get that initial rush of online players and try to hold on to them. I think there will be games on GG that outsell Marble Blast but I wouldn't be betting on a "hit" your first (or second) time out.
It's not all doom and gloom though. I just wanted to put some perspective out there on why Multi-Player only games aren't advised in this indie space. The good news is that we are trying out some remedies with Orbz and ThinkTanks that will teach us all some good information. Both games will have computer opponents, a single player game, and multi-platform support which we believe are 3 key ingredients to success for multi-player games. Of course, it's all a big experiment so we could be wrong, but the important part is that we share the information so the next wave of games to come out on GG do even better.
Our next game will be single-player first, then patch in multi-player. This has an interesting side effect of genereating a user base that translates over to multi-player when its available. Another experiment :).
#15
(The Apple display was saaaweeet!)
The sad thing is, less then 15% of us on here will ever release or finish any games, and 5-10% will ever have anything done that GG can help you sell. Which percentage are you?
These guys busted their asses at the GDC to push not only what games & tech GG had, but what the GG indies had too.
GG wants to make what they want game-wise, enjoy that freedom, and although not mega-blockbuster friendly yet, they are still nice enough to try and help the indies that have games to develop.
GarageGames offers you the tools, community, experience, & publishing options. You have to bring the dedication, hard work & determination to finish & succeed. No where else will you find game development-friendly options like these.
You should always include a 1 player mode in your games. Most of the games downloaded online & available online only, & BOUGHT, are bought buy women by 50-60%, ages 35-45. Males take up rest of the market, and usually don't BUY the games. These range from puzzle games, word games, clones of old gaming classics, etc. Not every game has to be a new FPS/RPG/MMORPG/MMOG/MMXXXXXX.
The GDC showed me there are at least 23-30 FPS/MMOGs games coming down the pipeline from professional developers & publishers.
There are literally hundreds & hundreds of indie teams making FPS/MMOGs that will be our competition. I met members from many of these teams at the GDC. How many do you think will actually make a profit?
Re-think how you do things, and what the TRUE market will be for your game. How many times it's downloaded means squat, unless you are getting money for each copy downloaded.
The Torque engine is open to all types of games that you can develop. Rack you brain, see if your old favorite could work in 3d, with different rules & gameplay aspects.
Don't try to be the next Everquest, Diablo, Ultima Online, Planetside, HALO, Time Splitters, Perfect Dark, etc.
In the online market, its whats fast & easy to download, how easy is it to learn to play, "could I play it even if English isn't my language?", is it addictive enough to make me play "just one more time", & keep the amount of screens/menus & how many times a user has to click the mouse to start your game down to a minimum.
Keep up the fantastic work, GarageGames, & thank you for providing the community & tools to help make our games come alive, & dreams come true.
Xhadoe (Joseph A. Hatcher Jr.)
www.agfrag.com
03/15/2003 (9:10 am)
Jeff, Jay & Tim, as well as rest of the guys that were at the GDC, did an outstanding job of promoting GG & what all of us are about.(The Apple display was saaaweeet!)
The sad thing is, less then 15% of us on here will ever release or finish any games, and 5-10% will ever have anything done that GG can help you sell. Which percentage are you?
These guys busted their asses at the GDC to push not only what games & tech GG had, but what the GG indies had too.
GG wants to make what they want game-wise, enjoy that freedom, and although not mega-blockbuster friendly yet, they are still nice enough to try and help the indies that have games to develop.
GarageGames offers you the tools, community, experience, & publishing options. You have to bring the dedication, hard work & determination to finish & succeed. No where else will you find game development-friendly options like these.
You should always include a 1 player mode in your games. Most of the games downloaded online & available online only, & BOUGHT, are bought buy women by 50-60%, ages 35-45. Males take up rest of the market, and usually don't BUY the games. These range from puzzle games, word games, clones of old gaming classics, etc. Not every game has to be a new FPS/RPG/MMORPG/MMOG/MMXXXXXX.
The GDC showed me there are at least 23-30 FPS/MMOGs games coming down the pipeline from professional developers & publishers.
There are literally hundreds & hundreds of indie teams making FPS/MMOGs that will be our competition. I met members from many of these teams at the GDC. How many do you think will actually make a profit?
Re-think how you do things, and what the TRUE market will be for your game. How many times it's downloaded means squat, unless you are getting money for each copy downloaded.
The Torque engine is open to all types of games that you can develop. Rack you brain, see if your old favorite could work in 3d, with different rules & gameplay aspects.
Don't try to be the next Everquest, Diablo, Ultima Online, Planetside, HALO, Time Splitters, Perfect Dark, etc.
In the online market, its whats fast & easy to download, how easy is it to learn to play, "could I play it even if English isn't my language?", is it addictive enough to make me play "just one more time", & keep the amount of screens/menus & how many times a user has to click the mouse to start your game down to a minimum.
Keep up the fantastic work, GarageGames, & thank you for providing the community & tools to help make our games come alive, & dreams come true.
Xhadoe (Joseph A. Hatcher Jr.)
www.agfrag.com
#16
03/15/2003 (1:23 pm)
Jeff: The deal with selling games in Russia... was that through a UK education site? I was wondering cause I got an email from them on selling my games through that.
#17
and
Intense Educational Ltd.
www.intense.co.uk
Suite 9, Brearley House,
278 Lymington Road
Highcliffe
Christchurch BH23 5ET
UK
Tel. (44 1425) 280828
Fax (44 1425) 280928
They both cover the Russian market that I know of, if that helps.
-Xhadoe
www.agfrag.com
03/15/2003 (9:39 pm)
There is Akella www.akella.com and
Intense Educational Ltd.
www.intense.co.uk
Suite 9, Brearley House,
278 Lymington Road
Highcliffe
Christchurch BH23 5ET
UK
Tel. (44 1425) 280828
Fax (44 1425) 280928
They both cover the Russian market that I know of, if that helps.
-Xhadoe
www.agfrag.com
#18
03/16/2003 (12:27 am)
Intense Educational Ltd. is who contacted me. They for some reason thought I had a PC game. They might have just probed everyone here.
#19
03/16/2003 (4:01 am)
LoL you guys are getting these emails too? I'm getting like 5 a week. They all want to license a pc game, most of them are for the Russian market. I never reply to them, its obviously spam.
#20
In regards to your earlier comment about MB making $150,000 to $200,000 in 18 months. Can you tell us approx. how much of that the developer gets?
04/08/2003 (10:08 am)
Jeff,In regards to your earlier comment about MB making $150,000 to $200,000 in 18 months. Can you tell us approx. how much of that the developer gets?
Torque 3D Owner Michael Cozzolino
Big Monk Games
Second I don't know if it would be ethically correct for GG to post sales numbers of say ie. Orbz. The team may want that info to be kept confidential.
Finally I'm not sure if GG would like to post the sales of their stuff ie. Marble Blast for the same reason of confidentiality.
I would really like to see this if any of the published companies don't mind having this info out for the public to see.