Buildings...
by Abbegon · in Artist Corner · 02/24/2003 (8:50 am) · 12 replies
Why is it better to do buildings in the hammer editor and not in a usual 3d app like 3ds max??
About the author
#2
02/24/2003 (10:05 am)
And if you insist on using max you can always make the model in max, and export it to .map to finish it in Hammer/QuArk
#3
and i guess that the textures won't come with the .map into hammer right??
02/24/2003 (10:07 am)
where can i find that plugin?? and i guess that the textures won't come with the .map into hammer right??
#4
02/24/2003 (5:27 pm)
Hi Abbegon, I've seen the work you have been doing on krabbit world. Very nice! You might ask Dean that very question as I know he did a building in Hammer and exported it into KW.
#5
You will still need to texture in Quark or hammer and be prepared you can not get to funky with .MAP format items so you still have tobuild kinda boxy.
I'lll be back
Matt
OK here ya go MAX2MAP
I have some docs in it to show you how to set up Max for it and a scene is included to kinda get you started. Its not 100% and like I said you can't get real wild with your shapes and you still have to texture in Quark.
Let me know how it works out for ya.
02/24/2003 (5:30 pm)
I have a more complete version of MAx 2 MAP that correctly exports All the brush based entities and normal brushes under worldspawn. I am not home now so I can't remeber the link when I get home I'll update this thread with the link. You will still need to texture in Quark or hammer and be prepared you can not get to funky with .MAP format items so you still have tobuild kinda boxy.
I'lll be back
Matt
OK here ya go MAX2MAP
I have some docs in it to show you how to set up Max for it and a scene is included to kinda get you started. Its not 100% and like I said you can't get real wild with your shapes and you still have to texture in Quark.
Let me know how it works out for ya.
#6
thnx Matthew :) thank you very much...
oh and is there a way to export back from hammer to 3ds max...??
but mebbe it's still a little simplier to texture in hammer if i know how to make the right textures... and i don't think that a prob...
02/25/2003 (6:36 am)
:).. yeah i've managed to export from Hammer into the game :).. i'm glad you like my stuff :D..thnx Matthew :) thank you very much...
oh and is there a way to export back from hammer to 3ds max...??
but mebbe it's still a little simplier to texture in hammer if i know how to make the right textures... and i don't think that a prob...
#7
You export shapes out of worldcraft(same thing) as a DXF then load them into MAX.
Thats how I use the MAX2MAP exporter I posted above. I use Quark/Worldcraft to build the rough shape then I export out to DXF merge it into the scene I included with the download. Then If I think its possible I build the funny shapes I need to fill in the blanks then export it back out toMAP , load it in Quark/Worlcraft. Check my work and make sure it carried through if so then I texture and do a DIF export.
Also you can jump in the Middle there If the funny shapes don't go through you can fill in the blanks with static DTS models that have collision on them, Then just divide your work up in max to seperate files (using SAVE SELECTED) and export each one individually. Or if the area doesn't require collision (it just might be scenary) you can build just static shapes and export them. Then just tie it all together in the Torque editor.
One good thing to practice is to make note of landmarks and how your different models tie together so when you finally get into the TGE editor you know what goes where. Because most of the time things don't scale out quete right and you have to scale them back into shape in the TGE editor.
You need to be careful you can pile up a high face count real quik. Try it with somthing small, before you start building massive sky scrapers full of all the trimmings.
It sounds also like alot of work going round and round but I am doing some building now and if you get the right setup going you can jump in and out pretty quik and get the job done in a reasonable amount of time.
If you have any question feel free to holler.
Good luck
Matt
02/25/2003 (9:20 am)
IN fact you can export from Hammer to MAX. But again you going to have a texture problem.You export shapes out of worldcraft(same thing) as a DXF then load them into MAX.
Thats how I use the MAX2MAP exporter I posted above. I use Quark/Worldcraft to build the rough shape then I export out to DXF merge it into the scene I included with the download. Then If I think its possible I build the funny shapes I need to fill in the blanks then export it back out to
Also you can jump in the Middle there If the funny shapes don't go through you can fill in the blanks with static DTS models that have collision on them, Then just divide your work up in max to seperate files (using SAVE SELECTED) and export each one individually. Or if the area doesn't require collision (it just might be scenary) you can build just static shapes and export them. Then just tie it all together in the Torque editor.
One good thing to practice is to make note of landmarks and how your different models tie together so when you finally get into the TGE editor you know what goes where. Because most of the time things don't scale out quete right and you have to scale them back into shape in the TGE editor.
You need to be careful you can pile up a high face count real quik. Try it with somthing small, before you start building massive sky scrapers full of all the trimmings.
It sounds also like alot of work going round and round but I am doing some building now and if you get the right setup going you can jump in and out pretty quik and get the job done in a reasonable amount of time.
If you have any question feel free to holler.
Good luck
Matt
#8
But how does the collision mesh in Hammer/Quark work?? i mean you could build the rough shapes in hammer/quark and then import i into max, make a clone of the building and use that as a collision mesh.. if that works that would be awsome... well of course it works but will it be slowing down the game to much??
02/25/2003 (12:26 pm)
i acctually have thought about all this that you're talikng about :D...But how does the collision mesh in Hammer/Quark work?? i mean you could build the rough shapes in hammer/quark and then import i into max, make a clone of the building and use that as a collision mesh.. if that works that would be awsome... well of course it works but will it be slowing down the game to much??
#9
Well if you have to use collision (+model} you don't want to use it to make a building but you might use it to add the scenery and small details.
For example you make a building of a little town store and in the DIF model you leave the holes for 2 big windows on each side of the door. then do your export to DXF then do an export to DIF (and put the dif MODEL in your level using the TGE ed.) ,then go into MAX and use the DXF file for reference, build 2 windows in the holes and make them fancy then build some LOD versions and add one collision BOX around the the model of the window. Then delete the building you made in QUARK/WORLDCRAFT and loaded as a DXF in MAX.
Set the window up to export. Then export
Then load the DTS model in TGE ed and place it in the DIF of the building. So that it fills the holes you left in the building.
Do I make Sense? I thought I did last time but If I am losing you I apoligize.
You could even go further (with code and script changes) and build the window in a damage state with an animation of the glass exploding and falling to the ground. But thats later.
MATT
02/25/2003 (4:10 pm)
I think I lost you along the way.Well if you have to use collision (+model} you don't want to use it to make a building but you might use it to add the scenery and small details.
For example you make a building of a little town store and in the DIF model you leave the holes for 2 big windows on each side of the door. then do your export to DXF then do an export to DIF (and put the dif MODEL in your level using the TGE ed.) ,then go into MAX and use the DXF file for reference, build 2 windows in the holes and make them fancy then build some LOD versions and add one collision BOX around the the model of the window. Then delete the building you made in QUARK/WORLDCRAFT and loaded as a DXF in MAX.
Set the window up to export. Then export
Then load the DTS model in TGE ed and place it in the DIF of the building. So that it fills the holes you left in the building.
Do I make Sense? I thought I did last time but If I am losing you I apoligize.
You could even go further (with code and script changes) and build the window in a damage state with an animation of the glass exploding and falling to the ground. But thats later.
MATT
#10
i think i stated my q wrong... and i do undestand what you're saying :)...
the thing is that i don't like the textures in hammer/quark. you make your won, yes, but it's not the same as if you do it in max. In max you can make them more detailed, beacuse you us a special texture map, in hammer/quark you make a square texture that you apply on you model it won't get those extra nice details like fake shadows and such... beacuse i want to do the basic shapes for my building in h/q and then import it into max and make the harder parts there and then texture it in max too. but then i have to make a collision mesh right?? so i'm wondering if there's a difference betwen the collision mesh hammer/quark uses/makes and the one you do in max... like if the game will get slower if you use a not so low collision mesh you've done in max or just the one that h/q makes when it export to the TGE ed...
thnx..
I'm glad you're still with me :)..
02/26/2003 (2:35 am)
hehe you don't need to apoligize :)...i think i stated my q wrong... and i do undestand what you're saying :)...
the thing is that i don't like the textures in hammer/quark. you make your won, yes, but it's not the same as if you do it in max. In max you can make them more detailed, beacuse you us a special texture map, in hammer/quark you make a square texture that you apply on you model it won't get those extra nice details like fake shadows and such... beacuse i want to do the basic shapes for my building in h/q and then import it into max and make the harder parts there and then texture it in max too. but then i have to make a collision mesh right?? so i'm wondering if there's a difference betwen the collision mesh hammer/quark uses/makes and the one you do in max... like if the game will get slower if you use a not so low collision mesh you've done in max or just the one that h/q makes when it export to the TGE ed...
thnx..
I'm glad you're still with me :)..
#11
They both use 2 different types of collision detection. So what your wanting to do is not going to work the way you would expect it to.
The answer "TEXPORTER". If you don't have it get it.
Load your shapes into Max as a DXF then cut them up into sections by doing a detach/attach. For example an exterior building you could take all the faces from the front and detach them as an object. Then apply a plane tyoe UVW map run Texporter on that set of faces. Take the textporter pattern and edit it in your texture software. (I use PaintShop Pro). When you get like you want it take the image and turn the background (all the black and alpha channel around the template of the shape) and turn it into clear. Then just select the texture stuff (you could do that with the ALPHA CHANNEL also) . Do a copy/paste to new image then that will bring the thing down to size. Then merge all your layers and change the size of the image to a power of 2 (256,128,512) and save it.
Of course TEXTURE BAKE for MAX5 will do all this also And More but you got to know how to use it.
In Quark you'll have to do a little math. Scale is 1 pixel to 1 unit so if your box is 128 wide and your image is 256 your scale would be .5 .5. You'll have to play with it but then you can rotate the image or scale further down and just overlay it on the part that covers that section.
I think WorldCraft might do the texturing a little easier but It's been along time since I used it so I cant remember.
Anyway Suddo UVW mapping. It works I have done it.
Try it good luck.
Matt
02/26/2003 (4:40 am)
I see what your saying nowThey both use 2 different types of collision detection. So what your wanting to do is not going to work the way you would expect it to.
The answer "TEXPORTER". If you don't have it get it.
Load your shapes into Max as a DXF then cut them up into sections by doing a detach/attach. For example an exterior building you could take all the faces from the front and detach them as an object. Then apply a plane tyoe UVW map run Texporter on that set of faces. Take the textporter pattern and edit it in your texture software. (I use PaintShop Pro). When you get like you want it take the image and turn the background (all the black and alpha channel around the template of the shape) and turn it into clear. Then just select the texture stuff (you could do that with the ALPHA CHANNEL also) . Do a copy/paste to new image then that will bring the thing down to size. Then merge all your layers and change the size of the image to a power of 2 (256,128,512) and save it.
Of course TEXTURE BAKE for MAX5 will do all this also And More but you got to know how to use it.
In Quark you'll have to do a little math. Scale is 1 pixel to 1 unit so if your box is 128 wide and your image is 256 your scale would be .5 .5. You'll have to play with it but then you can rotate the image or scale further down and just overlay it on the part that covers that section.
I think WorldCraft might do the texturing a little easier but It's been along time since I used it so I cant remember.
Anyway Suddo UVW mapping. It works I have done it.
Try it good luck.
Matt
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