Usuability: Mouse Trapping
by Richard Bottoms · in Torque Game Engine · 02/12/2003 (6:56 am) · 24 replies
The startup screen for Realm Wars hides the mouse requiring the user to click the mouse to get through the GG & Torque nag screens.
Problem is there is no indication to the user that the game is not hung up, but is instead waiting for a mouse click.
Platform: Win2K
Suggest:
1. Non-modal startup. It's annoying that I am mouse trapped. This contributes to a bad user experience and it keeps them from the rest of my machine. First time user wonders is my machine hung up?
2. Do not hide the mouse and/or change the mouse to a bitmap (fist, hnad, something) when inside the startup screen.
3. Add a 'click here to continue' to the splash screens.
Problem is there is no indication to the user that the game is not hung up, but is instead waiting for a mouse click.
Platform: Win2K
Suggest:
1. Non-modal startup. It's annoying that I am mouse trapped. This contributes to a bad user experience and it keeps them from the rest of my machine. First time user wonders is my machine hung up?
2. Do not hide the mouse and/or change the mouse to a bitmap (fist, hnad, something) when inside the startup screen.
3. Add a 'click here to continue' to the splash screens.
#2
Usability is key to customer satisfaction.
If it is an issue with me, then it is an issue. If it is an issue with me, then it is an issue with others.
The goal is to sell more $100 licenses, not to make me fix it.
02/12/2003 (7:24 am)
It is an issue if the first time I compile and run the software my mouse disappears. For all I know your software broke my computer.Usability is key to customer satisfaction.
If it is an issue with me, then it is an issue. If it is an issue with me, then it is an issue with others.
The goal is to sell more $100 licenses, not to make me fix it.
#3
02/12/2003 (7:41 am)
When I download the SDK, compile it and run, I don't get the Realmwars startup screen.
#4
I don't either. Thank you for correcting my inaccuracy.
But Realm Wars is used as a selling tool for the SDK and it is the first thing I downloaded. The mouse should not disaapear.
So are you more intersted in zinging a lame coder or making people more satisfied with the product?
02/12/2003 (7:50 am)
>When I download the SDK, compile it and run, I don't get the >Realmwars startup screen.I don't either. Thank you for correcting my inaccuracy.
But Realm Wars is used as a selling tool for the SDK and it is the first thing I downloaded. The mouse should not disaapear.
So are you more intersted in zinging a lame coder or making people more satisfied with the product?
#5
I know that GG is four guys, plus unpaid associates. I know that there are much larger real things that need to be addressed with the engine. I know that this engine is only $100. You get what you pay for, and for your $100 you get *much* more than $100 dollars worth of Game Engine. These "bugs" you are raising are less than trivial.
Notwithstanding your flame, there are no "lame coders" at GG. Please indicate to me where I "zinged a lame coder".
Finally, the proper place to report bugs is here: www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/module.php?qpj=4
This bug forum predates the not-so-new TGE Project Manager at that link.
You can navigate your way there via the "Community" link in the uppr right corner of the page, to "Torque Game Engine" and then "Project Manager".
02/12/2003 (8:04 am)
Not at all. I'm interested in seeing GG & the TGE succeed, but it's not my priority to improve their product sales. I have my own work load to address.I know that GG is four guys, plus unpaid associates. I know that there are much larger real things that need to be addressed with the engine. I know that this engine is only $100. You get what you pay for, and for your $100 you get *much* more than $100 dollars worth of Game Engine. These "bugs" you are raising are less than trivial.
Notwithstanding your flame, there are no "lame coders" at GG. Please indicate to me where I "zinged a lame coder".
Finally, the proper place to report bugs is here: www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/module.php?qpj=4
This bug forum predates the not-so-new TGE Project Manager at that link.
You can navigate your way there via the "Community" link in the uppr right corner of the page, to "Torque Game Engine" and then "Project Manager".
#6
Thank you for the link to the bug reporting section. May I suggest adding that link to the My Garage box in the user section. This makes it more obvious where to report bugs.
>Notwithstanding your flame, there are no "lame coders" at GG.
I was talking about myself.
>These "bugs" you are raising are less than trivial.
A customer concern is aa customer concern. I reported my concern, it is the comapny's choice what priority to assign it. It should be noted that in the age of free Open Source software I opted to pay $100.
>I know that this engine is only $100. You get what you pay >for, and for your $100 you get *much* more than $100 dollars >worth of Game Engine.
I agree, whcih is why I am collecting documents to help new users at my site:
http://www.hyper-real.com/torque
02/12/2003 (8:32 am)
>Not at all. I know that GG is four guys, plus unpaid >associates. I know that there are much larger real things that >need to be addressed with the engine.Thank you for the link to the bug reporting section. May I suggest adding that link to the My Garage box in the user section. This makes it more obvious where to report bugs.
>Notwithstanding your flame, there are no "lame coders" at GG.
I was talking about myself.
>These "bugs" you are raising are less than trivial.
A customer concern is aa customer concern. I reported my concern, it is the comapny's choice what priority to assign it. It should be noted that in the age of free Open Source software I opted to pay $100.
>I know that this engine is only $100. You get what you pay >for, and for your $100 you get *much* more than $100 dollars >worth of Game Engine.
I agree, whcih is why I am collecting documents to help new users at my site:
http://www.hyper-real.com/torque
#7
02/12/2003 (9:01 am)
Customer look and feel issues are NOT TGE bugs. They're giving you DEMO apps not commercialy polished complete games. If you want the mouse in a certain area, put it where you want it in YOUR GAME, but don't submit it as a bug in demo.
#8
I am a customer. It was an issue with me.
You could choose to ignore the post.
02/12/2003 (9:06 am)
>Customer look and feel issues are NOT TGE bugs.I am a customer. It was an issue with me.
You could choose to ignore the post.
#9
It can and should be a profit center for the company. From which they could add more paid staff in tech, sales and marketing. JBoss makes money from their docs. TGE should too.
No charge on my part if you are wondering.
02/12/2003 (9:40 am)
BTW, the offer to help improve the documentation still stands. It can and should be a profit center for the company. From which they could add more paid staff in tech, sales and marketing. JBoss makes money from their docs. TGE should too.
No charge on my part if you are wondering.
#10
See the problem with that is this: GG sees your post about mouse positioning and then devotes some time into "fixing" this "bug". Now resources have just been taken up that could have been used towards something that matters to the majority of developers you are the users of TGE and let those developers worry about look and feel issues of thier product, such as where the mouse get positioned or how/when it shows up.
02/12/2003 (10:37 am)
"You could choose to ignore the post."See the problem with that is this: GG sees your post about mouse positioning and then devotes some time into "fixing" this "bug". Now resources have just been taken up that could have been used towards something that matters to the majority of developers you are the users of TGE and let those developers worry about look and feel issues of thier product, such as where the mouse get positioned or how/when it shows up.
#11
Thus I give them more credit then you do about what havoc my suggestion makes. Last I check the rules of the forum did not include posting only things that the majority are interested in.
Merely that we be polite in doing so.
Polishing a product for wider appeal and greater sales is part of the software development process. Where and to what degree the developers of the product place that aspect of the process is up to them.
I am however free to suggest what is important to me. If you send over your list of TGE bugs I will give consideration to only posting what is important to you.
02/12/2003 (10:47 am)
As a project manager myself I'd like to think the the core development team at GG has a mechanism for prioritizing bug fixes. I know I did.Thus I give them more credit then you do about what havoc my suggestion makes. Last I check the rules of the forum did not include posting only things that the majority are interested in.
Merely that we be polite in doing so.
Polishing a product for wider appeal and greater sales is part of the software development process. Where and to what degree the developers of the product place that aspect of the process is up to them.
I am however free to suggest what is important to me. If you send over your list of TGE bugs I will give consideration to only posting what is important to you.
#12
Everyone one of your posts are implementation specific and not General bugs but specific to the implementation of a given demo or game. Almost all if NOT all of them are trival scripting changes.
I believe this forum was for REAL bugs like the vehicles getting stuck on objects when they collided with something past a certian velocity. That is a BUG in the C++ code and it was posted here and got fixed.
If you don't like the RealmWars nag screens take them out, change them, fix it however you feel best and resubmit them to the RealmWars project manager, he may or may not ( but probably would ) use it.
02/12/2003 (11:05 am)
I think everyones real point is these are NOT Torque "bugs" they are things wrong with the specific RealmWars demo implementation. Every last one of them . . . if you want it changed change it and submit the fix to the RealmWars project manager.Everyone one of your posts are implementation specific and not General bugs but specific to the implementation of a given demo or game. Almost all if NOT all of them are trival scripting changes.
I believe this forum was for REAL bugs like the vehicles getting stuck on objects when they collided with something past a certian velocity. That is a BUG in the C++ code and it was posted here and got fixed.
If you don't like the RealmWars nag screens take them out, change them, fix it however you feel best and resubmit them to the RealmWars project manager, he may or may not ( but probably would ) use it.
#13
Yes, I've already read and responsed to that with counter suggestion that a link to bug submission should be added to the menu at the left.
I have been convinced my posts were about minor problems. I haven't been conviced that aren't valid suggestions, only that they should have been posted elsewehere.
There is a difference between telling a customer what they should or should not find annoying and telling them the best place to get the annoyance fixed.
As the TGE becomes more widely known you will see more folks like me who aren't hard core gamers and who have not turned out mods for years. I am a database developer and Java EJB programmer interested in extending the functionality of the TGE.
If you think this is a problem, wait until the PC Gamer article comes out about Torque. Much as Linux had to cope with a flood of otherwise knowledgable people, programmers with years of experience in other things asking dumb questions, so will TGE.
Learning to deal with trivial questions, as they are to someone with years of gaming experience with grace is a benefit to the product.
I don't expect a massive amount of cycles to be devoted to my concerns, but I am a CUSTOMER. You want more like me, many, many more. You don't want me to just spend $100 and disappear you want me to buy 10, 20 or 50 liceneses.
The price of success is the influx of new folks who don't know the culture but are willing to spend money to learn.
I have about 300 books on everything from dBASE III to Python to atest to that.
Thank you for the pointer to the proper place to deal with my concerns.
02/12/2003 (11:28 am)
>I think everyones real point is these are NOT Torque "bugs" >they are things wrong with the specific RealmWars demo >implementation.Yes, I've already read and responsed to that with counter suggestion that a link to bug submission should be added to the menu at the left.
I have been convinced my posts were about minor problems. I haven't been conviced that aren't valid suggestions, only that they should have been posted elsewehere.
There is a difference between telling a customer what they should or should not find annoying and telling them the best place to get the annoyance fixed.
As the TGE becomes more widely known you will see more folks like me who aren't hard core gamers and who have not turned out mods for years. I am a database developer and Java EJB programmer interested in extending the functionality of the TGE.
If you think this is a problem, wait until the PC Gamer article comes out about Torque. Much as Linux had to cope with a flood of otherwise knowledgable people, programmers with years of experience in other things asking dumb questions, so will TGE.
Learning to deal with trivial questions, as they are to someone with years of gaming experience with grace is a benefit to the product.
I don't expect a massive amount of cycles to be devoted to my concerns, but I am a CUSTOMER. You want more like me, many, many more. You don't want me to just spend $100 and disappear you want me to buy 10, 20 or 50 liceneses.
The price of success is the influx of new folks who don't know the culture but are willing to spend money to learn.
I have about 300 books on everything from dBASE III to Python to atest to that.
Thank you for the pointer to the proper place to deal with my concerns.
#14
And I am not making this up, you can peruse the forums from past complaints about lack of documentation and tutorials and examples and what not. You are not buying support you are buying 395,000 + lines of C++ code some of which is dead, some of which does not work, some of which is BRILLANT . . . and some of which is junior developer hacks that are pathetic.
I have been digging thru the code since May 08, 2002 and just not have a pretty good comprehension about the code base.
I have stated else where, more than once, that the PC Gamer article title sounds misleading and eveyrone should be prepared for an influx of kids and wannabees that buy the licence and have no idea what they have bought and start bitching and complaining, etc. etc.
see GarageGames in PC Gamer March
personally I see a shitstorm coming and the signal to noise ratio is going to go thru the roof!!!!!!
Xhadoe please come back by the time the PC Gamer article hits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
02/12/2003 (1:54 pm)
Sorry to be the first one to say this Richard, but the general response for GG is going to be "you have the source fix it yourself, we are not here to write your game for you"And I am not making this up, you can peruse the forums from past complaints about lack of documentation and tutorials and examples and what not. You are not buying support you are buying 395,000 + lines of C++ code some of which is dead, some of which does not work, some of which is BRILLANT . . . and some of which is junior developer hacks that are pathetic.
I have been digging thru the code since May 08, 2002 and just not have a pretty good comprehension about the code base.
I have stated else where, more than once, that the PC Gamer article title sounds misleading and eveyrone should be prepared for an influx of kids and wannabees that buy the licence and have no idea what they have bought and start bitching and complaining, etc. etc.
see GarageGames in PC Gamer March
personally I see a shitstorm coming and the signal to noise ratio is going to go thru the roof!!!!!!
Xhadoe please come back by the time the PC Gamer article hits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#15
I happen to know that all of you posting in this particular thread are very competent and professional coders. Please don't let some little issues be so divisive.
Richard, I hope we some day have the time to fix polish bugs like you are reporting here, but I doubt that day will come any time soon. Before that we would work on making art import work better, enhance the rendering pipeline for new GPU's, etc. We have had many contributions from community members, and I hope issues such as these can be handled by the community.
I do know that our "out of box experience" could be better, and it is good to hear they type of things that bugged you as a new customer.
Jarrod, I'm certainly not as down on the Torque for newbies as you are. It is a great learning experience, and I know that my 15 year old son and his friends have gotten a lot of use out ot it. They won't make a professional game any time soon, but they sure have fun and are learning a lot trying. Even if they never understand C++ and always code in TorqueScript, I think they would have gotten a good return on their investment. For the price of a couple of GameCube games, they get to learn about game development.
Jeff Tunnell GG
02/12/2003 (3:30 pm)
Easy guys!I happen to know that all of you posting in this particular thread are very competent and professional coders. Please don't let some little issues be so divisive.
Richard, I hope we some day have the time to fix polish bugs like you are reporting here, but I doubt that day will come any time soon. Before that we would work on making art import work better, enhance the rendering pipeline for new GPU's, etc. We have had many contributions from community members, and I hope issues such as these can be handled by the community.
I do know that our "out of box experience" could be better, and it is good to hear they type of things that bugged you as a new customer.
Jarrod, I'm certainly not as down on the Torque for newbies as you are. It is a great learning experience, and I know that my 15 year old son and his friends have gotten a lot of use out ot it. They won't make a professional game any time soon, but they sure have fun and are learning a lot trying. Even if they never understand C++ and always code in TorqueScript, I think they would have gotten a good return on their investment. For the price of a couple of GameCube games, they get to learn about game development.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#16
I of all people really appreciate what I got when I bought the license. As part of my "day" job I teach and mentor object oriented design, java, c++, etc. I know that true newbies that know NOTHING about ANYTHING have a very hard time with simple learning examples.
TorqueScript is NOT easy just because it is scripting. It is cryptic and obfuscated at best, poorly documented and does not follow any "common" idioms or standards at worst, just like most C code, given the syntax this is not unexpected.
The C++ side of the house tackles some of the most difficult parts of computer science, threading, state machines, networking.
That said it is some of the most advanced design and sophisticated code I have seen. Well beyond anyone just starting to learn C++ much less programming in general.
I think Torque is an awesome deal for someone QUALIFIED to use it.
I like to hear that better tools support is being considered. That is one of the biggest hurdles right now - especially to cash strapped indie developers!
Torque = $100 US
3D Studio Max = $3500 - Which is ALMOST required because of the lack of full featured exporters for any other applications.
Personally I really don't and didn't expect much support for $100 US. But potential new users might have different expectations.
I think it is extremely unrealistic for anyone to assume your average reader of PC Gamer could get anything done with Torque besides get extremely frustrated.
02/12/2003 (9:06 pm)
@Jeff I am not "down on Torque for newbies" but I do think it is a misleading title in mass market publication aimed at the lowest common denominator gamer, if it was a DEVELOPER magazine it would be a different story.I of all people really appreciate what I got when I bought the license. As part of my "day" job I teach and mentor object oriented design, java, c++, etc. I know that true newbies that know NOTHING about ANYTHING have a very hard time with simple learning examples.
TorqueScript is NOT easy just because it is scripting. It is cryptic and obfuscated at best, poorly documented and does not follow any "common" idioms or standards at worst, just like most C code, given the syntax this is not unexpected.
The C++ side of the house tackles some of the most difficult parts of computer science, threading, state machines, networking.
That said it is some of the most advanced design and sophisticated code I have seen. Well beyond anyone just starting to learn C++ much less programming in general.
I think Torque is an awesome deal for someone QUALIFIED to use it.
I like to hear that better tools support is being considered. That is one of the biggest hurdles right now - especially to cash strapped indie developers!
Torque = $100 US
3D Studio Max = $3500 - Which is ALMOST required because of the lack of full featured exporters for any other applications.
Personally I really don't and didn't expect much support for $100 US. But potential new users might have different expectations.
I think it is extremely unrealistic for anyone to assume your average reader of PC Gamer could get anything done with Torque besides get extremely frustrated.
#17
Which is exactly why I implore Jeff and the others at team TGE to look at the JBoss project as a model for what to do right.
Their product has seen as much frustration and growing pains as TGE is facing right now. But after two, going on three years they have leveraged user input to create a stable Enterprise ready product.
I know that many bugs and product issues need to be addressed and prioritized. What I suggest you do is steal some of the ideas JBoss used to get to this point:
- Document everything that is known about the game engine. Every function, every script, every single thing that ships on the disc should be noted at a minimum and explained if possible. Users will understand you won't write a game for them, but it is imperative to tell them everything you know about the product.
A secondary benefit will be to begin weeding out what doesn't work in the code. Refactor your code base folks.
- Sell the most up to date and professionaly polished verions of your docs, provide older versions free. This is a potential and vital income stream. The best part, when critical mass is reached getting New Riders to publish a book about your product will be easy. JBoss did just that.
- Sell consulting about how to use TGE to make real games. That means seminars, demostrations and evanglizing across the country.
If this code base if comparable to a $25,000 engine elsewhere then I don't see why people wouldn't pay to be taught about it. Hello, you are going to the GDC. Why haven't you pitched me as a registered user about a TGE workshop? Upsell, upsell, and upsell.
- Provide an easier to use bug tracking system that allows you to rate the severity of bugs. Make it possible for look & feel issues to get into the knowledge base so you can fix them as time permits. Usability is the key. Do you want to be the next Lithtech? Make it as easy as possible for TGE users to help you get the product as bug free as possible.
- For heaven sakes get a Hello World done. It is the first thing I look for in any product. For TGE it would be: create a world, add an object, navigation, and perhaps music. That will be all that most newbies need to go off on their own.
Make the out of the box experience better and you will have the happy users selling their friends on your cool product. Due to the complex nature of TGE doing anything useful will require access to the paid portion of the site. Some may give TGE to their friends, but their will have to pay you if they really intend to use it for real.
- Outline the goals of the company and a timeline. Revise it as needed. Let us know what products are coming and what the planned functionalty will be. You may hit a home run with a licensed game at some point, but for now I think you will make serious money on TGE alone.
These growing pains indicate impending success. Be prepared for it. Your price point is good and the opportunities are wide open.
02/12/2003 (10:16 pm)
>I like to hear that better tools support is being considered. >That is one of the biggest hurdles right now - especially to >cash strapped indie developers!Which is exactly why I implore Jeff and the others at team TGE to look at the JBoss project as a model for what to do right.
Their product has seen as much frustration and growing pains as TGE is facing right now. But after two, going on three years they have leveraged user input to create a stable Enterprise ready product.
I know that many bugs and product issues need to be addressed and prioritized. What I suggest you do is steal some of the ideas JBoss used to get to this point:
- Document everything that is known about the game engine. Every function, every script, every single thing that ships on the disc should be noted at a minimum and explained if possible. Users will understand you won't write a game for them, but it is imperative to tell them everything you know about the product.
A secondary benefit will be to begin weeding out what doesn't work in the code. Refactor your code base folks.
- Sell the most up to date and professionaly polished verions of your docs, provide older versions free. This is a potential and vital income stream. The best part, when critical mass is reached getting New Riders to publish a book about your product will be easy. JBoss did just that.
- Sell consulting about how to use TGE to make real games. That means seminars, demostrations and evanglizing across the country.
If this code base if comparable to a $25,000 engine elsewhere then I don't see why people wouldn't pay to be taught about it. Hello, you are going to the GDC. Why haven't you pitched me as a registered user about a TGE workshop? Upsell, upsell, and upsell.
- Provide an easier to use bug tracking system that allows you to rate the severity of bugs. Make it possible for look & feel issues to get into the knowledge base so you can fix them as time permits. Usability is the key. Do you want to be the next Lithtech? Make it as easy as possible for TGE users to help you get the product as bug free as possible.
- For heaven sakes get a Hello World done. It is the first thing I look for in any product. For TGE it would be: create a world, add an object, navigation, and perhaps music. That will be all that most newbies need to go off on their own.
Make the out of the box experience better and you will have the happy users selling their friends on your cool product. Due to the complex nature of TGE doing anything useful will require access to the paid portion of the site. Some may give TGE to their friends, but their will have to pay you if they really intend to use it for real.
- Outline the goals of the company and a timeline. Revise it as needed. Let us know what products are coming and what the planned functionalty will be. You may hit a home run with a licensed game at some point, but for now I think you will make serious money on TGE alone.
These growing pains indicate impending success. Be prepared for it. Your price point is good and the opportunities are wide open.
#18
Let me apologize if I came across as hostile. It's in due in large part to a frustration with the rising noise level.
There are engine, tools and documentation gaps that *should* get priority over polish "bugs", as well as standard ways for submitting bug reports about the engine. My concern is that the squeeky wheel would get the grease and more important issues would be back burnered.
@Jeff Think it would be possible for the GG guys to produce a 6 month roadmap of where TGE is headed? Perhaps the community could get involved and help you get there faster...
02/13/2003 (8:02 am)
*sheepish grin*Let me apologize if I came across as hostile. It's in due in large part to a frustration with the rising noise level.
There are engine, tools and documentation gaps that *should* get priority over polish "bugs", as well as standard ways for submitting bug reports about the engine. My concern is that the squeeky wheel would get the grease and more important issues would be back burnered.
@Jeff Think it would be possible for the GG guys to produce a 6 month roadmap of where TGE is headed? Perhaps the community could get involved and help you get there faster...
#19
02/13/2003 (2:12 pm)
Richard, that's funny, I had the same problem the first time I ran RealmWars... I definitely sat there for a few seconds waiting for it to do something :) It didn't take long to figure it out, but it should have been fixed.
#20
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/index.php
Torque:
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/module.php?qpj=4
www.garagegames.com/mg/projects/torque1/contribute.php
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/gstarted/cvs.html
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/changelist/
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/issue.edit.php?qmo=28&type=bug
Realmwars:
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/module.php?qpj=3
www.garagegames.com/mg/projects/realmwars/cvs.php
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/module.php?qc=4159&qs=8&qt=2&qst=15&qpj=3&qsb...
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/module.php?qc=4159&qs=8&qt=1&qst=15&qpj=3&qsb...
Step by step instructions on how to get to the point that the current example app is at would be more of a full length novel then a getting started tutorial.
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/milestone.php?qmi=9
As to the origional complaint... most games I've recently purchased have intro screens that can not be escaped, no mouse cursor and you can not alt-tab or use the windows key to escape back to the desktop.
02/13/2003 (3:46 pm)
Quote:
- Document everything that is known about the game engine. Every function, every script, every single thing that ships on the disc should be noted at a minimum and explained if possible. Users will understand you won't write a game for them, but it is imperative to tell them everything you know about the product.
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/index.php
Quote:
- Provide an easier to use bug tracking system that allows you to rate the severity of bugs. Make it possible for look & feel issues to get into the knowledge base so you can fix them as time permits. Usability is the key. Do you want to be the next Lithtech? Make it as easy as possible for TGE users to help you get the product as bug free as possible.
Torque:
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/module.php?qpj=4
www.garagegames.com/mg/projects/torque1/contribute.php
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/gstarted/cvs.html
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/changelist/
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/issue.edit.php?qmo=28&type=bug
Realmwars:
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/module.php?qpj=3
www.garagegames.com/mg/projects/realmwars/cvs.php
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/module.php?qc=4159&qs=8&qt=2&qst=15&qpj=3&qsb...
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/module.php?qc=4159&qs=8&qt=1&qst=15&qpj=3&qsb...
Quote:
- For heaven sakes get a Hello World done. It is the first thing I look for in any product. For TGE it would be: create a world, add an object, navigation, and perhaps music. That will be all that most newbies need to go off on their own.
function helloworld()
{
echo("Hello World");
}Step by step instructions on how to get to the point that the current example app is at would be more of a full length novel then a getting started tutorial.
Quote:
- Outline the goals of the company and a timeline. Revise it as needed. Let us know what products are coming and what the planned functionalty will be. You may hit a home run with a licensed game at some point, but for now I think you will make serious money on TGE alone.
www.garagegames.com/projectmanager/milestone.php?qmi=9
As to the origional complaint... most games I've recently purchased have intro screens that can not be escaped, no mouse cursor and you can not alt-tab or use the windows key to escape back to the desktop.
Torque Owner Ken Finney
Tubetti World