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Project X

by Chiron · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 02/10/2003 (11:07 pm) · 39 replies

Genre: FPS/MMORPG/SIMULATION

Synopsis: An open-ended free form game where the players make the story line. A gaming experience modeled after real life, to cater to all genre markets as a whole gathering interest from every type of gamer. Players can choose identities, but their gaming life and career paths can be changed daily should they choose. The gaming world will be modeled after a good portion of earth. The world's largest cities in play at first and more added as the game progresses. Several forms of travel, and a variety of available careers to start at first with additional careers put in place as the need grows, including professional criminal.

Gaming Elements:

Economy: Jobs so to speak. A player can get a job(career path) from any NPC in the game. After the player procures a career, the player may set a default price for their in-game career. The salary cap is based on their level(or something similar, haven't figured out reward system yet.). The medical personnel can also sell medical supplies that they will have access to from any hospital for a very minimal cost(non-medical personnel will be charged a premium for high QL medical items, unless they get them from a medic.) Each career pays a standard salary per real-time day (24hrs) that the player remains in that profession. Players will receive a salary based on their character title and it will have 2 modifiers attached to it. One modifier for the number of hours they have played in that 24 hour period(figured this would help the create a bunch of characters and let them sit and make money thing.) and two their actual character level. An example might be level 12 doctor has a beginning salary of $15/hr x 4 hours played in a day x 12 = $720 in a 24 hour period simply for being employed. That figure excludes any extra funds received from actually performing services or selling items. All items will have a somewhat realistic cost. Weapons, ammo, vehicles, etc..etc..

Travel: Real-Time travel... I know it sounds risky, but I have spoken with many of the gamers that I have played with and although they had to warm up to the idea, for the most part they loved it. I think it adds a completely un-explored side to the game #1. Secondly if crimes are committed in certain areas it will help relieve "ambulance chasers" and immediate overcrowding based on crime. The other thing it brings to the table is helps add the Vehicle and Aircraft simulation genre to it. Someone can if they want hop in the car and crash it run people off the road..etc..etc.. Also has the ability to add real-time flight for all the Flight Sim people out there. Yet they can apply for a pilot's license and transport people to and from different cities, and yes in real-time travel. Yes, if the pilots choose to or make an error they will kill everyone on board, that is a risk of flying with a player played pilot. But it will cost the player massive money as well as his license(which will not be avail for cheap.) everyone on the plane will die and lose any inventory they might have been carrying. I'm sure everyone has seen the technology behind a flight simulator once or twice this will not add that much of a hit to the game power wise(take-off and landing will be tricky but I'm working on it.) On the same note if a person(s) choose to get involved in a road race from L.A. to Vegas, that is possible as well.

Character Development: Characters will have some type of SP (skill points) system, which skills will not be able to be divvied out by the players, rather points are automatically increased by performing the action or acquiring training from a source yet to be determined. Players can cap out each skill to 300SP, that is the max. There are different character titles for a designated set of numbers. Beginner from 0-15 etc..etc.. SP will be shown on the screen in each category. A meter of some sort as I think that reward driven gaming is where what players enjoy the most, "I am 1500 SP's away from my next level" etc..etc.. As far as acquiring items and being able to perform certain tasks this will be an SP function. i.e. it will take a minimum of 35 Break & Enter SP to pick all locks, depending on who set them be it player or NPC generated lock. Will use kind of a D & D behind the scenes rolling equation here.

DRS Disaster Response System: Okay this is a big one. This the GUI that reported crimes show up in. This will also serve as information data base for the players to choose where they decide to reside, play and travel. When a crime is committed in an area and reported by a player, sort of get a 911 call to the DRS. In turn the DRS notifies all medical and police units to the seen. The catch is they have to get there in real time. But the DRS will have a map and location of where the crime was committed. Medical personnel can go and treat wounded, and police can go and apprehend suspects. However, if no one gets there in time the crime goes unsolved.

Inventory/Items: Needs a very vast database of items, everything from home décor to weapons and vehicles. Players cannot carry more on their character than humanly possible. They can have storage, vehicles, homes, etc..etc.. But no one can carry 300lbs. of weapons on them and a car in their pocket .. Figured a couple layers of clothing, room for 3-4 side arms realistically. A knife, and a finite amount of pocket space. Again keeping with the realistic tone. All items on a person can be lost in the result of death (see death and incapacitation.)

Death, Incapacitation, and Injury: Going for pretty realistic here. Death results in harsh consequences. Incapacitation results in the players' inability to move but not to call for help or place a DRS call. Injury results in slower movement and other SP penalties until the player seeks medical attention. There will be time limits from injury to incap to death. A dead person can be "looted" by any character in the game without penalty to the looter and will lose whatever a player takes off their person. If the corpse is not looted within 2 minutes the dead person's immediate inventory is lost, including all cash in their immediate possession. A shot to the head will not result in immediate death. From the time a character is shot in the head a 60 second window will be avail for medical personnel with the required tools to save a person from death. If this happens in the game the player facing death will lose no inventory. If a player receives a critical wound (headshot) they become incap until help arrives. Be it an NPC or player transport to local medical facilities. A player CAN go from injured to full health, but NOT from any other state to full health unless treated by a medical location or VERY experienced Medical personnel with the proper tools (exp... player with 175SP in Medical) A player may never go from Near death (our headshot victim from earlier) to full health unless treated at a medical location. The player must be treated by experience medical personnel on the site for life threatening injuries (near death to incap) then be transported. There will be a 60 second window from near death to actual death. A 6 minute window from incap to death. And a 20 minute window from injured to death(or some scale counting down time for injured you get the picture.) A headshot followed by 2 more shots results in immediate death and cannot be revived on the scene or at a medical location and results in the death penalties mentioned earlier.

There are a few more systems I want to put in place and have outlined but I think for the most part everyone sees where this is going. I can explain in more detail if anyone is interested.

I understand this is a difficult game to produce, but from what I have heard not impossible by any stretch. I look forward to hearing some of your responses, and would love to work with any and all interested in this project. Please email me at raorcutt@cox.net if interested.

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#1
02/13/2003 (6:46 am)
No response at all ?
#2
02/13/2003 (9:54 am)
this game sounds like a kinda difficult leap if you know what I mean, you would have to make alot of pre determined storys, most of which the player would never even see.
#3
02/13/2003 (10:08 am)
Thanks for responding. Not following you on the predetermined stories, on an open-ended game.
#4
02/27/2003 (6:13 pm)
Thats one cool idea! have almost the same idea in mind but could go in a totally different direction from yours. would have loved to help though, just that i got loads of projects of my own and i can't really use c++ yet, still messing around with dark basic to gain some game developement skills. Make this game the way i think your gonna and u could have a big hit!
#5
02/27/2003 (6:45 pm)
Seriously, this project would be impossible unless you had oh, 500 billion dollars.
#6
02/27/2003 (6:50 pm)
Strangley enough Tony, I have a team of 25 people that have past game credit that think it's very possible. Thank you for your post.
#7
02/27/2003 (7:04 pm)
Ok, I've changed my mind.

If there's anyone on these boards that can make a MMORPG work, it's and your 25 team mates.

Good luck! :)
#8
02/27/2003 (8:26 pm)
I was not trying to be rude Anthony, although I am astonished that you are apparently the resident expert. Also it was not my intention to put up a post with a realistic project and get your weak attempt at sarcasm. Strangely enough the TGE Community so I've heard and yet to experience is suppose to be a pretty tight knit group. I figured since we have decided on TGE then perhaps I might have a little luck filling a couple spots here versus somewhere else. I appreciate your honesty though. Thanks a bunch :)

Sincerely
#9
02/27/2003 (8:37 pm)
Sounds cool. So this is a MMORPG? How are you going to implement the networking side of things? Action RPG? I think if you pull off something like what you described then this will certainly prove the viability of Indie MMORGP.
Is the world going to be seamless or have loading times?
Are you using Torque?

Sounds like the coolness of GTA3 mixed with the total open endedness of online gaming. I like the ideas about the police, but what stopes them abusing their power? Do they get guns for free? Can they arrest anyone? or do they need an arrest warrent\Does the person nead to have caused a crime?

Again, this would be cool, but a LOT of work. 25 people might not be enough ;)
I might actually play MMORPG of they werent all the same/boring, and this one sounds different.

I'll like to see where you end up.

Dylan
#10
02/27/2003 (9:23 pm)
Great idea, but a game is already under development with all this stuff in mind. Good luck nonetheless!
#11
02/27/2003 (9:38 pm)
Sorry if I was a jerk, but I don't think you understand.

This project isn't realistic.

You need millions of dollars of backing and a huge team to get this up and running.

You probably have a better chance of: Building a space shuttle from spare parts, sending you and your friends to the moon and safely returning.

The TGE is called that for a reason, it's not called TMMORPGE. You will need an insane amount of resources to complete or even make any head way. From what I read of your want ad, you are in need of programmers. Programmers form the back bone of building a MMO game, even more so than in a traditional multiplayer game. Even if you had ten thousand artists, you still wouldn't be able to get a MMORPG started.

If you take a look at what all of the "head honchos" around here are doing, A LOT of very experienced people are taking their game ideas in the opposite direction you are. With tons of published games under their belts, they are building basically puzzle games. Shouldn't that tell you something?

I'm not trying to destroy your dream here, but you need to wake up to the realities of game design. I've gotten to know Torque fairly well, although I consider myself far from an expert compared to many people here. I know pretty well what torque is capable of in it's current form, and even though it can do alot, it's not setup for MMO games.

MMORPG's are simply not feasible to develop, using Torque as a base, with a small to moderate sized team and little to no funding.
#12
02/27/2003 (9:44 pm)
Dude's (Anthony) got a point, we realized a while back that we need to start with a basic FPS/Sim before we try to go MMORPG. This starts you with basic vehicle, character, etc. designs and gets a little XP under your belt. Most importantly, t gets you some cash (hopefully) and gets the game out into the public. There are many other reasons why one should do this, but I'll babble on and on if I list them. But like I said, good luck anyway.
#13
02/28/2003 (12:13 am)
Dont listen to these naysayers.

I think that if you want to make a MMORPG then it is possible, but you will first need to help or wait for Joshua Ritter to finish Action RPG, the MMOG framework he's making, that either plugs into torque or torque plugs into it (I cant keep up with him ;) )

So if your a programmer then I suggest helping him rather then starting from scratch. He has made it open-source so you can get it and work on it (I think). However it is written in Python, so you'll need to know that.

So yeah, It is hopeless if you try to do it yourself with no knowledge of how these systems work, but I would rather show you one way it can be done rather than just say "Its impossible". If you can help Joshua then I hope you do, cause I think that having Action RPG working would be a huge accomplishment, opening the door to many indie MMORPGs and the goodness that will bring.

Plus I really want to play that game... it sounds so cool. (I would help but im working on 2 at the moment ;)

Keep at it, but realise that something like this will take a LOT of time and many setbacks.
#14
02/28/2003 (1:16 am)
You say you want to do this thing and I admire you for that. You have a good idea and I admire you for that. People say that it's a big project with many difficulties and required disciplines and I totally agree with them. People are encouraging you to continue with your plans and I agree with them to. Folks are saying it will never get finished and I my first tendancy is to agree with them."

How can I agree with all these apparent conflicting points of views?

Well, everyone wants to do their "dream game" and thousands try and ultimately fail and soon learn to become humble in the face of complexity. The thing is that it's not a waste of time as you learn a whole bunch of stuff in doing so. One thing that becomes apparent quite quickly is that apparently "small" games become complex all by themselves, even for industry professionals and your "dream" game is beyond comprehension! Thinking small doesn't mean, pathetic game. Some of the best games had a simple theme and a certain feature that gave it longevity. The other thing about "large" games with complex autonomous systems is that you soon get into a situation where you start to wonder where the actual fun is in the game. I mean it's great to have an economic system, a weather system, a political system, a population system, a food system, a travel system etc but in the end, it has to not only make sense to the player but it has to be *fun*.

Never completed a game before? Got a bunch of people together who want to do some gaming? Got the time? Got the passion? If so, then take your original idea and reduce it to a "doable in six months" version. Design it so that you can take this original concept game and produce "v2 - Bigger and better" with all the knowledge you gained from "v1 - Humble and cool".

I can see two alternatives; one, you start work on it only to find out how much work it actually requires and ultimately fail with a whole bunch of models and artwork and disconnected code and learn a whole bunch of stuff or two, you actually finish this thing in about three years of hard work and I eat my words. :)

I fully understand that my words probably come across as patronising and I do apologise if I have under-estimated your experience in massive, multi-tier game creation. :(

- Melv.
#15
02/28/2003 (1:22 am)
Yep. I have started 3 games, and finished none :( however I have learnt a LOT and I think I now understand what it takes to make even a simple game and hope to finish my current 1. So I say give it a go, even if you fail miserably, you will have learnt something.

I like Melvs idea of modifying it into something doable, then making a no.2 with all the bells and whistles.

Still I hope to see this or something like it one day.
#16
02/28/2003 (2:49 am)
Chiron,

Just wanted to say you have a great idea and I hope you can take it all the way!

Good luck! :)

- Chris
#17
02/28/2003 (2:54 am)
So whats the gameplay.. whats the point of it all?

Its easy to think up game ideas that have no limits.

But the hardest part is making it worth playing. There has to be some point to it all. The "open endedness" of most MMORPG's is what drove me away from them... they just seem so pointless to me.
#18
02/28/2003 (4:04 pm)
yeah jason has a point, see the idea i had (that was simillar to this) had a general goal but from what i've understood so far, there isn't any for this game! but could someone pls remind me of the point of the sims? maybe u could use a simillar goal for this game (whatever the goal was).

"Seriously, this project would be impossible unless you had oh, 500 billion dollars"

^_^ yeah guess so if you start from scratch! but think about it, the only hard element of this game would be setting it and maintaining it online, it's not as though you have several computer controlled characters that have/live out their own lives(like some industry game, can't rememba the name), don't laugh but i'm gonna be making mine with dark basic ^_^ and i'll prove to you a simillar thing can be done :)
#19
02/28/2003 (5:39 pm)
Quote:the only hard element of this game would be setting it and maintaining it online

If you say so. :)
#20
02/28/2003 (6:49 pm)
I'm a bit concerned about the drive people seem to have towards massively multiplayer stuff.

While this game's objectives are simultaneously huge and paradoxically limiting (why go for a direct simulation of real life in real time, when there's real life out there to be had, and for much less money), the real challenge with a MMORPG is the server and the network.

For things like Ultima Online, you are looking at millions in infrastructure costs. Have a look at a MUD, MUSH or MOO some time - those are surprisingly difficult to keep online, and the ones that do well will still peak at around 200 players.

There's a good reason why there are very few commercial MMORPGs, and why they are based around very solid brands with very serious commercial backing.

And your odds of getting the 24/7 team of senior adminsitrators you'd need to keep something like that online drop even further if you're not doing it commercially.

Finally, I suggest you go out and play a variety of online games - www.topmudsites.com is probably a good place to start. You might just learn that bigger != better.
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