Whacky bug
by Gary Fieldman · in Torque Game Engine · 01/22/2003 (9:34 pm) · 16 replies
After building a new system to render from, we decided to test our application. The problem we seem to be having is incredibly whacky, and unfortunately has stopped game production until we are able to fix it. Any input would be appreciated.
First, the System:
Intel 2.4 GHz P4B533 Asus Mobo with 512 meg 2100 memory
40 gig Maxtor 7200 RPM HD
Radeon 9000 OEM (Sapphire) Video Card
SoundBlaster Live(Value)
Standard 10/100 NIC
WinXP Home
Second, the Bug:
From a completely fresh compile (downloaded Latest HEAD), the player model in test app exploded, and the camera rather than moving along rotation, is moving along its translation (inverting everything). We tried loading our game, same thing happened. On loading ORBz or any released GarageGames game, everything worked fine. On my system, it works perfectly fine, and it worked fine on the previous system. This new system donesn't like something in the engine. Other games work perfectly fine, and we are at a loss as to why this is happening. We've rolled back sound drivers, video drivers, and have discussed this in IRC with several people with no resolution. Any ideas would be appreciated, as this is incredibly annoying. Thanks in advance.
Forgot to add: this happens in the -show option.
-----Update-----
We downgraded to the 1.1.1 Build, same thing happened. Any ideas?
First, the System:
Intel 2.4 GHz P4B533 Asus Mobo with 512 meg 2100 memory
40 gig Maxtor 7200 RPM HD
Radeon 9000 OEM (Sapphire) Video Card
SoundBlaster Live(Value)
Standard 10/100 NIC
WinXP Home
Second, the Bug:
From a completely fresh compile (downloaded Latest HEAD), the player model in test app exploded, and the camera rather than moving along rotation, is moving along its translation (inverting everything). We tried loading our game, same thing happened. On loading ORBz or any released GarageGames game, everything worked fine. On my system, it works perfectly fine, and it worked fine on the previous system. This new system donesn't like something in the engine. Other games work perfectly fine, and we are at a loss as to why this is happening. We've rolled back sound drivers, video drivers, and have discussed this in IRC with several people with no resolution. Any ideas would be appreciated, as this is incredibly annoying. Thanks in advance.
Forgot to add: this happens in the -show option.
-----Update-----
We downgraded to the 1.1.1 Build, same thing happened. Any ideas?
#2
01/22/2003 (10:43 pm)
Yes, on both. We rolled back to the drivers that worked fine on the Video card, still didnt fix it. We have also used current versions. The drivers that came with the video card worked fine on the previous machine.
#3
01/22/2003 (10:45 pm)
Also, this happens on the standard stock application for Torque, with its player model.
#4
01/23/2003 (10:19 am)
Bump, any other ideas? We have switched to the video drivers that worked previously. Thanks.
#5
01/23/2003 (8:37 pm)
Ok, we have now swapped the OS, the video card and driver, and this still doesn't work!!!! Please, anyone have any ideas?
#6
01/24/2003 (12:55 pm)
So, no one knows how to fix this bug? We are unable to develop if this is not working properly.
#7
If you've swapped as much as you say, it must be a process problem.
Which compiler are you using? Got all the latest service packs? Tried building on another machine and trying the exe on the buggy one?
01/24/2003 (1:00 pm)
I've certainly never seen it.If you've swapped as much as you say, it must be a process problem.
Which compiler are you using? Got all the latest service packs? Tried building on another machine and trying the exe on the buggy one?
#8
01/24/2003 (1:03 pm)
I have an 8500 and have not seen this problem at all.
#9
01/24/2003 (4:15 pm)
Right, it works fine on other machines. We are running CW6. I also run an 8500DV. We switched the card to this one. I have an AMD chipset, so the only other thing we can figure out is tha tthe motherboard might have an issue or the FPU is off. Because released games work (and yes I blew out the .cs files on ours in case) the only other thing in common to this problem is the torque demo app, but across two OS's and with different video hardware? We even made sure all non-essential hardware was deinstalled, on a fresh build (after formatting harddrive), nothing worked. Someone has to have encountered this, or have an idea why it isnt working. Should I email the employees? I do want to be respectful, but this is driving us nuts.
#10
01/24/2003 (6:10 pm)
Bump. Please we need some help.
#11
Ok... that done, see if you can figure out if the error is in Torque's math code or in the graphics card's driver. I'd find the code that passes stuff on to OpenGL, and see if the vertex data being passed is right or not. If _that's_ valid, then you know the problem is in the graphics card drivers. If it's not, then you're going to have to check Torque's math code, probably.
Are you sure you have a completely clean Torque checkout, and that your build environment is also sanitary? (ie, no oddly modified header files or libraries)
01/25/2003 (8:42 am)
First off... Go take a nap. :) It looks like you just spent 21 hours on the problem, which isn't conducive to a positive resolution. :(Ok... that done, see if you can figure out if the error is in Torque's math code or in the graphics card's driver. I'd find the code that passes stuff on to OpenGL, and see if the vertex data being passed is right or not. If _that's_ valid, then you know the problem is in the graphics card drivers. If it's not, then you're going to have to check Torque's math code, probably.
Are you sure you have a completely clean Torque checkout, and that your build environment is also sanitary? (ie, no oddly modified header files or libraries)
#12
In regards to the math stuff with Torque, where is a good place to start debugging? We found no errors in console on load. If it is in the engine itself I would have no clue how to start debugging, as I would consider myself a decent scripter, not a programmer. Thanks in advance.
01/25/2003 (9:15 am)
Yes I am positive of the sanitary build. With nothing else loaded (except for bare essentials) we compiled a fresh download. We also compiled directly from what was built on the CD. We made sure that there was nothing else on the PC.In regards to the math stuff with Torque, where is a good place to start debugging? We found no errors in console on load. If it is in the engine itself I would have no clue how to start debugging, as I would consider myself a decent scripter, not a programmer. Thanks in advance.
#13
01/25/2003 (2:02 pm)
Bump
#14
Pentium 4 2.4ghz
1024MB of RDRAM
120GB HardDrive
Sound Blaster Live Card
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB DDR
Windows XP Home
Gary:
I've also had this exact problem. When I re-downloaded the Torque engine onto my new system. I upgraded to the newest drivers (Catalyst 3.1) and the problem was still existing but I could tell the drivers helped a small bit. When all else failed, I re-downloaded the engine again after updating the drivers and did a clean build (after registering the vc registry file) and it works nearly perfect now. The only problem I have now is with the GUI's because of the way ATI cards clear the back buffer for each cycle so the menu's flash and act unfriendly-like. The Catalyst 3.1 drivers aren't listed on their main page so you'll have to dive into the driver section to find them.
To make a long story short, re-download and try again. That's what worked for me and hopefully it'll get your project up and running. Hope this helped.
02/15/2003 (7:46 am)
My system specs first:Pentium 4 2.4ghz
1024MB of RDRAM
120GB HardDrive
Sound Blaster Live Card
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB DDR
Windows XP Home
Gary:
I've also had this exact problem. When I re-downloaded the Torque engine onto my new system. I upgraded to the newest drivers (Catalyst 3.1) and the problem was still existing but I could tell the drivers helped a small bit. When all else failed, I re-downloaded the engine again after updating the drivers and did a clean build (after registering the vc registry file) and it works nearly perfect now. The only problem I have now is with the GUI's because of the way ATI cards clear the back buffer for each cycle so the menu's flash and act unfriendly-like. The Catalyst 3.1 drivers aren't listed on their main page so you'll have to dive into the driver section to find them.
To make a long story short, re-download and try again. That's what worked for me and hopefully it'll get your project up and running. Hope this helped.
#15
02/15/2003 (11:49 am)
long story short Gary there is NOTHING wrong with the Torque source code, it HAS to be something wrong with the PROCESS/CONFIGURATION in which are you are doing the builds.
#16
02/15/2003 (5:02 pm)
Yeah, hopefully. But I dont have a problem on my AMD system though, and I am running the 9700 PRO (all in wonder). Everything runs perfectly as it is supposed to. Ohh well, we've launched something completely different now, appreciate all your feedbacks. Just so you know Jarrod, I have not changed any "configuration or process" of doing a fresh clean build. That has not changed. Either way, this right here is a reason why I hate Pentiums :). 
Torque Owner Jarrod Roberson