T3D Web Publishing in detail
by Timothy Graupmann · in Torque 3D Professional · 04/12/2009 (11:20 pm) · 79 replies
Here are some questions that I want to know about Web Publishing with T3D. Ready!!!?
The Unity web binary build contains several game scenes that can be streamed individually so that your game opens quickly.
Unity assets like materials, models, textures, lights, particle systems, etc, can be bundled into asset bundles that can be downloaded and altered at runtime.
Does T3D use a similar concept of scene streaming so that parts of the game can load instantly?
Does T3D package assets that are made available over http that can be instantiated at runtime?
Can packaged assets be built at runtime if T3D were used to make a game editor that mods your game?
What capabilities does T3D have to work with content that wasn't built at build time? Can T3D work with uncompressed/compressed textures and what formats at runtime? Can T3D compile shaders at runtime and what shader models are supported? What model formats can be imported/exported at runtime?
Can end users submit content for your game (materials, lights, models, textures) without needing the source code to your game? (In Unity's case, you need to give the user your asset library and scenes to maintain the object hierarchy and the end-user content developer would need to send you the same to add their content to the game).
Where can I find the T3D API object documentation for materials, models, textures, lights, particle systems, etc?
Unity3d is based on Mono and doesn't have a debugger yet. Does T3D have a debugger for the web player?
The Unity web binary build contains several game scenes that can be streamed individually so that your game opens quickly.
Unity assets like materials, models, textures, lights, particle systems, etc, can be bundled into asset bundles that can be downloaded and altered at runtime.
Does T3D use a similar concept of scene streaming so that parts of the game can load instantly?
Does T3D package assets that are made available over http that can be instantiated at runtime?
Can packaged assets be built at runtime if T3D were used to make a game editor that mods your game?
What capabilities does T3D have to work with content that wasn't built at build time? Can T3D work with uncompressed/compressed textures and what formats at runtime? Can T3D compile shaders at runtime and what shader models are supported? What model formats can be imported/exported at runtime?
Can end users submit content for your game (materials, lights, models, textures) without needing the source code to your game? (In Unity's case, you need to give the user your asset library and scenes to maintain the object hierarchy and the end-user content developer would need to send you the same to add their content to the game).
Where can I find the T3D API object documentation for materials, models, textures, lights, particle systems, etc?
Unity3d is based on Mono and doesn't have a debugger yet. Does T3D have a debugger for the web player?
#2
1. Does the web publishing need a powerful server? or is it based on P2P and everyone could host a server?
2. Does the Build Zip function of T3D support encryption? Will the art resources be well protected like COD4(edit: I mean the .ff files in COD4)?
Thanks.
04/15/2009 (6:36 am)
I have 2 questions to ask:1. Does the web publishing need a powerful server? or is it based on P2P and everyone could host a server?
2. Does the Build Zip function of T3D support encryption? Will the art resources be well protected like COD4(edit: I mean the .ff files in COD4)?
Thanks.
#3
It's not like ASP server controls.
I assume T3D will be the same way.
2) For game assets, with Unity you create a binary asset bundle. This is the guts of your assets put into a binary file. It's not a zip file, and can't be extracted without a web player.
It works like this video: forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=145095#145095
No idea what T3D uses.
04/15/2009 (7:06 am)
1) With Unity when you build a web player it builds a binary file and an html file. You simply upload these files to an http server. There is no extra cpu processing needed because it's a simple http download.It's not like ASP server controls.
I assume T3D will be the same way.
2) For game assets, with Unity you create a binary asset bundle. This is the guts of your assets put into a binary file. It's not a zip file, and can't be extracted without a web player.
It works like this video: forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=145095#145095
No idea what T3D uses.
#4
There's a resource for doing this in TGE, and I know Jaimi McEntire said he'd made a custom version for a client in TGEA.
But yeah, good question. I'd like to know if zipping files/assets is "stock" in T3DP.
04/15/2009 (7:13 am)
Actually COD4 doesn't protect assets as you can open the files with WinRar or 7Zip. They are just glorified .pak files with a renamed extension. Having a password on the files would prevent them being opened/modded/looted.There's a resource for doing this in TGE, and I know Jaimi McEntire said he'd made a custom version for a client in TGEA.
But yeah, good question. I'd like to know if zipping files/assets is "stock" in T3DP.
#5
@Steve, my bad I didn't mention clearly, I meant the encrypted .ff files in COD4. ;)
04/15/2009 (8:05 am)
@Timothy, this is really good news, I bought T3D right! ;)@Steve, my bad I didn't mention clearly, I meant the encrypted .ff files in COD4. ;)
#6
04/15/2009 (11:53 am)
I use Unity3d for comparison because there is only 1 competing product with T3D. I'm hoping T3D learns from Unity's design limitations. 
#7
What about OSAKit and similar technologies, that do more or less the same as the IA Kit / Quake Live / ...
04/15/2009 (1:10 pm)
Really? Only one?What about OSAKit and similar technologies, that do more or less the same as the IA Kit / Quake Live / ...
#8
04/15/2009 (3:04 pm)
@Timothy, Unity3d is not a tool in T3D? Sigh... Hope T3D have similar features as Unity3d, etc.
#9
But I don't see how the two would even compare.
Unity has a global plugin which all Unity webplayer builds use. The things really run within the webplayer with data streamed from web.
All purely within the browser and its control(like Flash and Shockwave)
T3Ds "installs" the game on your harddisk with a custom plugin, which just executes the game within the browser like Quake Live and the InstantAction webplayer
At least that is what I got from all postings in this topic so far.
04/15/2009 (7:21 pm)
Unity is one of T3Ds more or less main competitors together with C4 in the lower cost indie realtime 3D technology sector.But I don't see how the two would even compare.
Unity has a global plugin which all Unity webplayer builds use. The things really run within the webplayer with data streamed from web.
All purely within the browser and its control(like Flash and Shockwave)
T3Ds "installs" the game on your harddisk with a custom plugin, which just executes the game within the browser like Quake Live and the InstantAction webplayer
At least that is what I got from all postings in this topic so far.
#10
And its the only thing i DONT need in the engine (at least for my project at hand) :)
And btw, Unity3D cost 500$ more (1000$ more if you take current maximum savings in account) then Torque3D, cant really compare it.
04/15/2009 (9:31 pm)
Its funny how everyone's... omg omg web publishing, webpublishing...And its the only thing i DONT need in the engine (at least for my project at hand) :)
And btw, Unity3D cost 500$ more (1000$ more if you take current maximum savings in account) then Torque3D, cant really compare it.
#11
04/16/2009 (1:21 am)
I suppose web publishing is having a lot of success because of Quake Live and such. It's a bit funny considering ActiveX and Netscape plugins have been around for years and it was already possible to create such a feature... 
#12
So it looks like many people are interesting in this feature.
I'm also looking in the one introduced in T3D and currently halting all my development in TGEA; just to see what will be available inside T3D and the things I was planning to add, then add it inside T3D plugin (like fast data streaming, crypting, repository of project...) if not available inside T3D.
04/16/2009 (1:22 am)
Just to put my 2cents: our small demonstration for web publishing with TGEA has already been downloaded more than 500 times in the last months...So it looks like many people are interesting in this feature.
I'm also looking in the one introduced in T3D and currently halting all my development in TGEA; just to see what will be available inside T3D and the things I was planning to add, then add it inside T3D plugin (like fast data streaming, crypting, repository of project...) if not available inside T3D.
#13
04/16/2009 (7:26 am)
Do we really have to configure the game site as a trusted site? Isn't that.... dangerous?
#14
The more important thing (to developers) is: Players, specially casual players will not do that. They expect that it just works. Like with flash for example.
The hole web publishing is nice. But it depends on how it's done. Flash is running on nearly all machines. A gamer doesn't have to do anything. It's just a standart.
If they have to install a plugin for every single game they play... That's a problem in my eyes as it's another hurdle the player has to bypass to finally buy your game.
(I'm not talking about "hardcore" players. They may have less problems with that.)
04/16/2009 (7:36 am)
Dangerous... Yes and no...The more important thing (to developers) is: Players, specially casual players will not do that. They expect that it just works. Like with flash for example.
The hole web publishing is nice. But it depends on how it's done. Flash is running on nearly all machines. A gamer doesn't have to do anything. It's just a standart.
If they have to install a plugin for every single game they play... That's a problem in my eyes as it's another hurdle the player has to bypass to finally buy your game.
(I'm not talking about "hardcore" players. They may have less problems with that.)
#15
You decide yourself if all of your games use the same plugin or each a new one.
04/16/2009 (8:54 am)
there is no need to install a plugin for every single game. Was explained in a different threadYou decide yourself if all of your games use the same plugin or each a new one.
#16
It's good that your own games only need one plugin. But still... Let's say you buy 10 Torque3D games from 10 diffrent developers. Then you have 10 different plugins which all do the same thing.
I don't really care about that. But some gamers do... Let's see how it works out.
04/16/2009 (12:54 pm)
Sorry, yes, didn't mentioned that I don't know yet how Torque3D handels that.It's good that your own games only need one plugin. But still... Let's say you buy 10 Torque3D games from 10 diffrent developers. Then you have 10 different plugins which all do the same thing.
I don't really care about that. But some gamers do... Let's see how it works out.
#17
If all work together to get a more featured common plugin, then the situation would be much nicer for the user and the success of the stuff.
04/16/2009 (1:00 pm)
If the 10 developers to decide to use different plugins then yes, thats sadly the situation.If all work together to get a more featured common plugin, then the situation would be much nicer for the user and the success of the stuff.
#18
These methods can easily be subverted as they are ultimately rendered using DirectX or OpenGL which can be used to steal the assets at render time using tools such as 3D Ripper DX.
So don't spent too much time being concerned with protecting your assets(just use password protected archives to prevent the novice thief), if someone wants them, they will do whatever it takes.
04/17/2009 (2:10 pm)
@Concerns with protecting assets via zip compression/password/encryption.These methods can easily be subverted as they are ultimately rendered using DirectX or OpenGL which can be used to steal the assets at render time using tools such as 3D Ripper DX.
So don't spent too much time being concerned with protecting your assets(just use password protected archives to prevent the novice thief), if someone wants them, they will do whatever it takes.
#19
Web:
Play:
www.bitslap.me/sample.html
EDIT: FireFox Only For Keyboard Mouse Reasons in IE
EDIT: Visit Options First! Its Max Detail By Default
EDIT: ~ Key then the mouse works! Escape does not bring up exit mission!
EDIT: FPS Stats
~ Key
Type In: metrics(fps)
04/30/2009 (9:10 pm)
Game:Web:
Play:
www.bitslap.me/sample.html
EDIT: FireFox Only For Keyboard Mouse Reasons in IE
EDIT: Visit Options First! Its Max Detail By Default
EDIT: ~ Key then the mouse works! Escape does not bring up exit mission!
EDIT: FPS Stats
~ Key
Type In: metrics(fps)
#20
04/30/2009 (9:15 pm)
You might want to do a usability study. I have 64-bit Vista and use Firefox. Which button do I click? 
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