Importing of DTS files into LightWave: Discussion
by David Wyand · in Torque Game Engine · 01/17/2003 (8:31 am) · 31 replies
Greetings!
I've been playing with the ability to import DTS files directly into LightWave. This would allow you to load up the static shape into Modeler and modify its form and textures. Then, using the LW2DTS exporter, you could resave them. I could also see this moving onto the importing of DTS and DSQ animations in Layout.
While I can think of a number of reasons why this would be useful, I have a question of the community: Should something like this exist?
This tool would allow anyone to load up models from a Torque game and essentially disassemble them. How do you as game developers and game content creators feel about this?
Should the DTS/DSQ formats be treated as closed and a one-way street (ie: LightWave or 3DS Max to DTS only, and not the other way around)? Or, should we treat the DTS/DSQ formats as any other 3D format and allow the world to tinker with them, and use copyrights from preventing others from using content you'd prefer they didn't (of course, these would exist either way)?
Please discuss...
- LightWave Dave
I've been playing with the ability to import DTS files directly into LightWave. This would allow you to load up the static shape into Modeler and modify its form and textures. Then, using the LW2DTS exporter, you could resave them. I could also see this moving onto the importing of DTS and DSQ animations in Layout.
While I can think of a number of reasons why this would be useful, I have a question of the community: Should something like this exist?
This tool would allow anyone to load up models from a Torque game and essentially disassemble them. How do you as game developers and game content creators feel about this?
Should the DTS/DSQ formats be treated as closed and a one-way street (ie: LightWave or 3DS Max to DTS only, and not the other way around)? Or, should we treat the DTS/DSQ formats as any other 3D format and allow the world to tinker with them, and use copyrights from preventing others from using content you'd prefer they didn't (of course, these would exist either way)?
Please discuss...
- LightWave Dave
About the author
A long time Associate of the GarageGames' community. I run www.zworldo.com a free-to-play, browser based games site using Torque 3D technology.
Recent Threads
#22
01/04/2004 (4:42 am)
Yes i know the post is old, just ive been at basic training and tech school for several months, so im playing catchup here. :-) 
#24
06/08/2004 (10:01 am)
Huh? Nothing has been posted here for 5 months, what's the deal? :D
#25
06/08/2004 (10:03 am)
Apparently it was time to repost. :)
#26
I would buy a plugin/program that would allow me to go from DTS 2 Lightwave!
The entire reason games like Half-Life, Unreal, Quake, etc. grew to large game properties
Is heavily due to the MOD ability.
If a programmer/artist doesn't want anyone else to play with his or her model the THEY should
write some kind of code that would be able to scramble the DTS file.
Everyone seems to be afraid that someone else will steal their sacred work.
Part of me as an artist wants to horde my work until finished.
It is a touchy situation, but if you don't do it, someone else will. you might as well make some money first!
Let me know if you do, I will buy one!
Have fun,
jOnathOn
07/08/2005 (3:22 pm)
Hey Dave,I would buy a plugin/program that would allow me to go from DTS 2 Lightwave!
The entire reason games like Half-Life, Unreal, Quake, etc. grew to large game properties
Is heavily due to the MOD ability.
If a programmer/artist doesn't want anyone else to play with his or her model the THEY should
write some kind of code that would be able to scramble the DTS file.
Everyone seems to be afraid that someone else will steal their sacred work.
Part of me as an artist wants to horde my work until finished.
It is a touchy situation, but if you don't do it, someone else will. you might as well make some money first!
Let me know if you do, I will buy one!
Have fun,
jOnathOn
#27
I'm way out of my essence here.
I've been scoring the internet in search of a DTS importer to work specifically on Starsiege: Tribes models and animation. To me, of course, an importer would be invaluable.
If anyone sees this, I hope to dear god that they've found one and, also, that they contact me.
Haha!
Thanks.
07/23/2006 (6:55 am)
Whoa, whoa.I'm way out of my essence here.
I've been scoring the internet in search of a DTS importer to work specifically on Starsiege: Tribes models and animation. To me, of course, an importer would be invaluable.
If anyone sees this, I hope to dear god that they've found one and, also, that they contact me.
Haha!
Thanks.
#28
07/23/2006 (7:38 am)
Well you know Constructor will be able to export to LWO, and i believe that Constructor can load up DTS. So...... that'll probably be the solution.
#29
I personally will not support anything that support importing and changing of DTS, DSQ files. Theses files represent hard work by the people that made them. An importer of this type would represent a abuse factor that i am NOT willing to support.
If something like this was to take place i will go in and change the format of the DTS and DSQ files on the copy of my engine to make sure they will not be recognized by these 'importers'. So in short if constructor will support lwo export then the program constructor and any other DTS or DSQ importer/exporter willnot be supported by my copy of the TGE game engine.
SOrry but in my opinion this would be too much of a abuse factor. And i will not support it in any way.
07/23/2006 (5:27 pm)
Well here is my take on this, and this is my opinion no one elses.I personally will not support anything that support importing and changing of DTS, DSQ files. Theses files represent hard work by the people that made them. An importer of this type would represent a abuse factor that i am NOT willing to support.
If something like this was to take place i will go in and change the format of the DTS and DSQ files on the copy of my engine to make sure they will not be recognized by these 'importers'. So in short if constructor will support lwo export then the program constructor and any other DTS or DSQ importer/exporter willnot be supported by my copy of the TGE game engine.
SOrry but in my opinion this would be too much of a abuse factor. And i will not support it in any way.
#30
Dave, if you were to do this, it would eventually lead to a pirated version being out there. Please don't leak any copies if you can avoid it.
More importantly, how can we protect DTS and DSQ's if something like this does get out - as it inevitably will.
07/23/2006 (6:08 pm)
Quote:
Now, if someone does want to have a LightWave importer/export for their game variant DTS/DSQ format, feel free to give me a shout...I'm sure we can work something out. :o)
Dave, if you were to do this, it would eventually lead to a pirated version being out there. Please don't leak any copies if you can avoid it.
More importantly, how can we protect DTS and DSQ's if something like this does get out - as it inevitably will.
#31
To begin with please keep in mind I started and ended my discussion in this thread back in January 2003. I've returned just to clear up a couple of things before they become full fledged rumours.
1. Constructor
I have built a LWO exporter into Constructor as an experiment. However its only purpose is to export brushes. I may expand it later to allow for the export of entity information into a LWS file and likely open up the interface to allow 3rd parties to build exporters. But this will only be limited to the type of information you'd find in a MAP file or the Constructor specific CSX file format. I have no current plans to expand this to include the polygonal data from referenced DTS files.
2. LightWave Importer
To quote Andy who was quoting me (emphasis is my own):
3. DTS/DSQ Protection
The DTS and DSQ file formats are obscure but not secure. Anyone that owns the TGE/TSE/TGB source code already has the best importer out there: the engines themselves. All that needs to be done is write an export routine to dump what has been loaded to your favourite 3D file format. If that concerns you then don't use a vanilla DTS/DSQ file format for your game. Even a small change such as adding a single byte in the middle will trip up a loader. Adding a single bit can be even more fun. :o) There are also resources around that help you add encryption to your art assets if you're so inclined.
- LightWave Dave
07/23/2006 (11:41 pm)
Greetings!To begin with please keep in mind I started and ended my discussion in this thread back in January 2003. I've returned just to clear up a couple of things before they become full fledged rumours.
1. Constructor
Quote:Well you know Constructor will be able to export to LWO, and i believe that Constructor can load up DTS. So...... that'll probably be the solution.
I have built a LWO exporter into Constructor as an experiment. However its only purpose is to export brushes. I may expand it later to allow for the export of entity information into a LWS file and likely open up the interface to allow 3rd parties to build exporters. But this will only be limited to the type of information you'd find in a MAP file or the Constructor specific CSX file format. I have no current plans to expand this to include the polygonal data from referenced DTS files.
2. LightWave Importer
To quote Andy who was quoting me (emphasis is my own):
Quote:Now, if someone does want to have a LightWave importer/export for their game variant DTS/DSQ format, feel free to give me a shout...I'm sure we can work something out. :o)As stated in my January 22, 2003 reply in this thread, I've abandoned my work on a vanilla TGE DTS/DSQ importer. The idea of a game variant DTS/DSQ format was to mean a modified version of these formats that would only work with your game and are not the vanilla TGE/TSE formats. To date no one has taken me up on my offer.
3. DTS/DSQ Protection
The DTS and DSQ file formats are obscure but not secure. Anyone that owns the TGE/TSE/TGB source code already has the best importer out there: the engines themselves. All that needs to be done is write an export routine to dump what has been loaded to your favourite 3D file format. If that concerns you then don't use a vanilla DTS/DSQ file format for your game. Even a small change such as adding a single byte in the middle will trip up a loader. Adding a single bit can be even more fun. :o) There are also resources around that help you add encryption to your art assets if you're so inclined.
- LightWave Dave
Torque 3D Owner Eric Forhan
The idea behind it is the game company or artist having control of the source model. It'd be somewhat akin to insisting programmers leave the source code in with the game. That might work for open source, but certainly not for most commercial ventures.
If Bravetree doesn't want to hassle with the possibility of pieces of their think tanks showing up in other games/venues, shouldn't we respect that?
If you, c0rTx, want to make a game and include the source models--that's your choice! :-)
-EricF