Torque-specific interior editor?
by James \"Corvidae\" Williams · in Artist Corner · 01/07/2003 (9:32 pm) · 37 replies
As some of you may have seen over in the Mac forum, I'm considering working on an editor specifically geared toward Torque interior creation. Before I get started, though, I'm curious as to what users are looking for in an editor. Is there any specific part of Quark/WC you especially like? Anything you don't like? Any feature requests? Current planned enhancements include:
* One-click export to map2dif for compilation
* The ability to use .tga/.jpg textures natively and not have to maintain both a texture list and a .wad
* The ability to work with detail levels in the editor simultaneously (i.e. have a "project" file of sorts that will manage a series of LODed interiors and will export them to a single .dif)
* Both .qrk and .fgd support
* Plugin system so individual mod teams can customize the export/editing process to use their enhancements
Essentially, I'm looking to make sure this won't be _too_ insurmountable once I get into it. :) If you have any ideas, suggestions, offers of help, etc., let me know!
-Corvi
* One-click export to map2dif for compilation
* The ability to use .tga/.jpg textures natively and not have to maintain both a texture list and a .wad
* The ability to work with detail levels in the editor simultaneously (i.e. have a "project" file of sorts that will manage a series of LODed interiors and will export them to a single .dif)
* Both .qrk and .fgd support
* Plugin system so individual mod teams can customize the export/editing process to use their enhancements
Essentially, I'm looking to make sure this won't be _too_ insurmountable once I get into it. :) If you have any ideas, suggestions, offers of help, etc., let me know!
-Corvi
About the author
#23
I almost wish you hadn't shown me that, cause now I want it. :/ :)
What you can do is import .dxf into Milkshape, export to .max, then run it through max2dif... but that'd be a bit of a hassle.
01/08/2003 (5:38 pm)
Wow. Now THAT is a cool idea.I almost wish you hadn't shown me that, cause now I want it. :/ :)
What you can do is import .dxf into Milkshape, export to .max, then run it through max2dif... but that'd be a bit of a hassle.
#24
although, that sketchup thing did really rock.
01/08/2003 (5:52 pm)
apple has released a version of x-windows that has the long-awaited support for hardware 3d. This means that radiant will soon be a viable editor on the mac platform. ( ihopeihopeihope ).although, that sketchup thing did really rock.
#25
Still, it's a nice development and the new x11 server rocks, but it's not a solution.
01/08/2003 (6:30 pm)
We cannot use GTKRadiant for commercial games without getting a license to do so from Id software (it's in the EULA, even if it's Open Source)Still, it's a nice development and the new x11 server rocks, but it's not a solution.
#26
I would encourage (and help) any effort to make map2dif use floating point coords. :) It's been on my TODO list for a while but I just haven't gotten there.
01/13/2003 (4:01 pm)
QuArK definitely can handle floating point but map2dif needs a lot of work in this area. One thing I'm concerned about is what the performance in Torque will be; on the surface it would not seem to be a problem since the rotation/translation of interiors is handled very well. I would encourage (and help) any effort to make map2dif use floating point coords. :) It's been on my TODO list for a while but I just haven't gotten there.
#27
About the dif specific editor, thats a great idea. I would definatly like to see support added for editing the terrain files through it and the ability to model in your buildings around the terrain. I would also suggest for Texture Adjustment using some sort of UVW unwrapper. Actually having controls over how the vertices lay on the texture. If its not to far of a stretch the ability to add static DTS shapes and lights (both dynamic and static). What we really need in the engine as a whole is Static lighting for the exterior (or Terrain) portions of the maps.
Sounds like a real big project though I definatly wish you luck.
Matt
01/15/2003 (4:11 pm)
At IGC, back in November a lecture on quark was given. It seemed that they had made some changes the map2dif. If you look at Marble blast there are alot of "simulated" curved surfaces. And they managed to get them to export properly with out the problem of infalting and deflating faces. (Thats what I call it anyway). Maybe the nescassary changes have already been made to map2dif and all we need to do is wait on the marbleblast merge to the head. I think they said that was coming. I know Tim Gift commented in his latest plan about getting the MB stuff merged to the head.About the dif specific editor, thats a great idea. I would definatly like to see support added for editing the terrain files through it and the ability to model in your buildings around the terrain. I would also suggest for Texture Adjustment using some sort of UVW unwrapper. Actually having controls over how the vertices lay on the texture. If its not to far of a stretch the ability to add static DTS shapes and lights (both dynamic and static). What we really need in the engine as a whole is Static lighting for the exterior (or Terrain) portions of the maps.
Sounds like a real big project though I definatly wish you luck.
Matt
#28
Last Saturday, I managed to get the map parser coded and working. It'll read in a .map file and load it into memory, then spit all the information out again to the screen. The dump to screen won't be used, obviously, but the important part (the parsing/loading) is.
The next step (probably over the weekend) is going to be to design an abstraction layer so all the base code can be used for all three projects, just the OS-specific details can change between implementations.
Are you guys SURE you don't want to help with this? ;)
01/15/2003 (8:17 pm)
Thought I'd fill you guys in on my progress so far...Last Saturday, I managed to get the map parser coded and working. It'll read in a .map file and load it into memory, then spit all the information out again to the screen. The dump to screen won't be used, obviously, but the important part (the parsing/loading) is.
The next step (probably over the weekend) is going to be to design an abstraction layer so all the base code can be used for all three projects, just the OS-specific details can change between implementations.
Are you guys SURE you don't want to help with this? ;)
#29
or maybe some alfa/beta tests ?
01/15/2003 (9:29 pm)
great idea - how i can help you with this ? i can only do some grafic's to this ...or maybe some alfa/beta tests ?
#30
What I would want most - easy tool set - nothing like trying to guess how to scale an object, or select a face. What I can't stand is how hard it is to move the object around in 3d space in some of these programs.
You know something that would be really great, but I bet it would be to involved to put in, is real time viewing of the lights you place - ie strobe etc.
I'm not much of a programmer by far, but if there is something I can do in assisting you in some other way let me know. I would be happy to host a site for you - I own a web hosting company and would love to give to the project in some way - plus I'll help beta (like it would be hard finding beta testers ;)
Names... Wilmap, AppleCore ;)
01/16/2003 (12:40 am)
I think what kills me using the PC editors, they feel sooo outdated - Quark and WorldCraft (Hammer) - I really would love a Mac editor. Also keep the dump screens as a debug tool :)What I would want most - easy tool set - nothing like trying to guess how to scale an object, or select a face. What I can't stand is how hard it is to move the object around in 3d space in some of these programs.
You know something that would be really great, but I bet it would be to involved to put in, is real time viewing of the lights you place - ie strobe etc.
I'm not much of a programmer by far, but if there is something I can do in assisting you in some other way let me know. I would be happy to host a site for you - I own a web hosting company and would love to give to the project in some way - plus I'll help beta (like it would be hard finding beta testers ;)
Names... Wilmap, AppleCore ;)
#31
We should have a prefab library working just like a code library: when you change a prefab and recompile an interior where it's placed, your change would take effect.
In Hammer, all you place is a copy of the prefab. It should place a reference to it.
Nowadays, if you change the prefab, nothing happens to the levels where you used it. I have to place them all again. It's not a true prefab system.
01/16/2003 (3:20 am)
Corvi, a good prefab system is a must-have in my opinion (and nobody seems to have it!).We should have a prefab library working just like a code library: when you change a prefab and recompile an interior where it's placed, your change would take effect.
In Hammer, all you place is a copy of the prefab. It should place a reference to it.
Nowadays, if you change the prefab, nothing happens to the levels where you used it. I have to place them all again. It's not a true prefab system.
#32
news and screenshoot here
from the developpement pages
01/17/2003 (4:39 pm)
GtkRadiant on OSX .. soon news and screenshoot here
from the developpement pages
#33
-Eric ;-)
01/17/2003 (7:17 pm)
I just want a monitor that can fit that whole picture in the screen.-Eric ;-)
#34
We should have a prefab library working just like a code library: when you change a prefab and recompile an interior where it's placed, your change would take effect.
In Hammer, all you place is a copy of the prefab. It should place a reference to it.
Nowadays, if you change the prefab, nothing happens to the levels where you used it. I have to place them all again. It's not a true prefab system."
If I understand what you just said, when you compile a dif, it doesn't automatically update existing placements of that interior?
Hate to condradict, but when I recompile it updates my interiors perfectly. Do you restart the map? Thats the only thing I can think of.
01/17/2003 (7:18 pm)
"Corvi, a good prefab system is a must-have in my opinion (and nobody seems to have it!).We should have a prefab library working just like a code library: when you change a prefab and recompile an interior where it's placed, your change would take effect.
In Hammer, all you place is a copy of the prefab. It should place a reference to it.
Nowadays, if you change the prefab, nothing happens to the levels where you used it. I have to place them all again. It's not a true prefab system."
If I understand what you just said, when you compile a dif, it doesn't automatically update existing placements of that interior?
Hate to condradict, but when I recompile it updates my interiors perfectly. Do you restart the map? Thats the only thing I can think of.
#35
You build a collection of windows and doors for later use, everyone in its own .RMF file. You add them all to Hammer's prefab library.
Then you build a mansion, using some of those prefab doors and windows, and this mansion is in its own .RMF file too.
Now, I open one of the doors' files, make a change and save it. Well, it's a prefab, isn't it? That door is part of my prefab library, right? So, when I open the mansion file again, where I used that door, it was supposed to be changed. This doesn't happen in Hammer. When you place a prefab in an interior, you are just placing a copy, there's no link to the original.
It's painful to make a change in a prefab that is used all around your levels, and have to replace them one by one. If your game has complex levels (like cities), a prefab system is a must have.
01/17/2003 (7:52 pm)
Jim, here is what I want:You build a collection of windows and doors for later use, everyone in its own .RMF file. You add them all to Hammer's prefab library.
Then you build a mansion, using some of those prefab doors and windows, and this mansion is in its own .RMF file too.
Now, I open one of the doors' files, make a change and save it. Well, it's a prefab, isn't it? That door is part of my prefab library, right? So, when I open the mansion file again, where I used that door, it was supposed to be changed. This doesn't happen in Hammer. When you place a prefab in an interior, you are just placing a copy, there's no link to the original.
It's painful to make a change in a prefab that is used all around your levels, and have to replace them one by one. If your game has complex levels (like cities), a prefab system is a must have.
#36
James, good luck. :-) Sounds like alot of work.
-Eric
01/17/2003 (11:35 pm)
QuArK already supports duplicators, where if you make a 'duplicate' of the model rather than a copy all dupes thereafter are changed when the original is changed. However, I don't know of any way to do that from a seperate file/prefab package. Might be doable?James, good luck. :-) Sounds like alot of work.
-Eric
#37
01/18/2003 (12:54 pm)
oh! I gotcha... very cool idea. First thing that comes to my mind is XReferences in AutoCAD.
James "Nycto" Frasca
I would LOVE to help test :)