A message to Garage Games.
by David Nelson · in General Discussion · 01/05/2003 (12:34 pm) · 9 replies
Ok, I'm new. I do understand there is a huge learning curve with the code and tools. But in truth I'm not having any problem learning those and I really do enjoy them and I think that the Torque engine is amazing.
However, I never expected having a learning curve on how to use the community website. This community seems strong but its so hard to tell because everything is so hidden. Nothing on the website is easy. First of all the main garage games. You are developing and selling this product at the same time. There is barely a seperate place for the developers. In the beguinning I kept trying to get into the resources and kept clicking on the torque links and I kept coming up to the 'buy' page. That was really anoying.
Second, the resorces page, as much info that exists is amazing! However once again, when I click on a resource I run into a page of comments and a shot info about it. There isn't any nice and big 'DOWNLOAD STUFF HERE' section. Its all within other webpages. Then on downloads, I just had to go through gamespy, log in, and go through their crap all over again to download a couple K files. That really just plain blows. I'm wasting my time with your site instead of being constantly busy reading new material I'm messing with broken links, webpages, and other non-project related info. I really don't care about the comments. I want to see the code, the tutorials, and every resource in a developer section.
So how about a section where we log on to it. We are no longer around the 'buy games' section. How about you truely support your community by encasing everything, even small files, tutorials, and other resources on your website in an easy to use platform. How about when I click on a tutorial it comes right up instead of having to search his info for a link or finally notice that size 12 font 'website' at the top.
This could be such a better community if it wasn't so spread out and damn hard to deal with.
I love Torque, and I am really happy about my purchse, but I am just coming from the Half-Life community, and the mod community which was free was 1000 times simplier than this. There was a massive forum, and about 3 webpages that had tutorials. You click on one and wow, it was right in front of you.
So thanks for a great product, and everyone that is contributing your material, but man, can't you present it in a better way G-Games?
Sorry for the bitching, but I thought this had to be said. If you find it easy, I'm happy for you, and I'm sure you'll let me know.
David
However, I never expected having a learning curve on how to use the community website. This community seems strong but its so hard to tell because everything is so hidden. Nothing on the website is easy. First of all the main garage games. You are developing and selling this product at the same time. There is barely a seperate place for the developers. In the beguinning I kept trying to get into the resources and kept clicking on the torque links and I kept coming up to the 'buy' page. That was really anoying.
Second, the resorces page, as much info that exists is amazing! However once again, when I click on a resource I run into a page of comments and a shot info about it. There isn't any nice and big 'DOWNLOAD STUFF HERE' section. Its all within other webpages. Then on downloads, I just had to go through gamespy, log in, and go through their crap all over again to download a couple K files. That really just plain blows. I'm wasting my time with your site instead of being constantly busy reading new material I'm messing with broken links, webpages, and other non-project related info. I really don't care about the comments. I want to see the code, the tutorials, and every resource in a developer section.
So how about a section where we log on to it. We are no longer around the 'buy games' section. How about you truely support your community by encasing everything, even small files, tutorials, and other resources on your website in an easy to use platform. How about when I click on a tutorial it comes right up instead of having to search his info for a link or finally notice that size 12 font 'website' at the top.
This could be such a better community if it wasn't so spread out and damn hard to deal with.
I love Torque, and I am really happy about my purchse, but I am just coming from the Half-Life community, and the mod community which was free was 1000 times simplier than this. There was a massive forum, and about 3 webpages that had tutorials. You click on one and wow, it was right in front of you.
So thanks for a great product, and everyone that is contributing your material, but man, can't you present it in a better way G-Games?
Sorry for the bitching, but I thought this had to be said. If you find it easy, I'm happy for you, and I'm sure you'll let me know.
David
#2
The only gripe I have is the dead links in the resources. But thats just what happens on any site that has alot of off site links. I agree there should be a button or something you can click to alert GG that the link is no longer working.
The comments on the resource pages are a great asset. They have helped me alot. Since everyones PCs are different, code that works on the dev's machine may not work on yours. I see resources that have lots of useful info in the comments all the time... especially when its like "Great resource, didn't work on my computer at first... I changed xxxx and now it works as intended."
01/05/2003 (1:53 pm)
I had a hard time with this site when I was new. After a week or so I got the hang of it, and now I really like how it is layed out.The only gripe I have is the dead links in the resources. But thats just what happens on any site that has alot of off site links. I agree there should be a button or something you can click to alert GG that the link is no longer working.
The comments on the resource pages are a great asset. They have helped me alot. Since everyones PCs are different, code that works on the dev's machine may not work on yours. I see resources that have lots of useful info in the comments all the time... especially when its like "Great resource, didn't work on my computer at first... I changed xxxx and now it works as intended."
#4
Now that I get it, it's simple and smart and very, very organized -- which is something that most mod communities can't even hope for. I mean, this is essentially on big-ass forum, but FAR more evolved -- it's like *gasp* a forum that's designed to let us get things done. I mean, on a site with SO MUCH user content that also has to organize and make this information useful -- somewhere where people are organizing massive efforts to actually make something new and awe-inspiring, where the sky is the limit (as opposed to working within the insulation of a particular game's editor and modding capabilities) -- on a site with this much user interaction, it's amazing that it's anywhere near as organized as it is.
01/05/2003 (8:46 pm)
Just want to say that, yeah, I had a really tough time at first too . . . I mean, it's not like I had blisters on my fingers or something, or like I was SUFFERING, and it's not as if it actually affected me detrimentally in any substantial way -- but yeah, the layout was confusing at first.Now that I get it, it's simple and smart and very, very organized -- which is something that most mod communities can't even hope for. I mean, this is essentially on big-ass forum, but FAR more evolved -- it's like *gasp* a forum that's designed to let us get things done. I mean, on a site with SO MUCH user content that also has to organize and make this information useful -- somewhere where people are organizing massive efforts to actually make something new and awe-inspiring, where the sky is the limit (as opposed to working within the insulation of a particular game's editor and modding capabilities) -- on a site with this much user interaction, it's amazing that it's anywhere near as organized as it is.
#5
just my 2 cents and maybe GG has some certain philosophy and vision we simply can not see yet (i didnt mean it to sound sarcastic, really:)
01/06/2003 (7:51 am)
My only...complaint? no not complaint, but warning - I think that after awhile, when additional products will be released, it will become really hard to navigate the forums and products. Right now there are just some games so, entering forums, one can find pretty quickly what he needs, but what will happen when there will be dozens of products? i think, that products page (non-dev page, if you like) should be made more separate. like mini portal within portal, where one can find games by genres, price (or freeware). i even think, that forums related to GG published products should not be seen entering through "devs' backdoor". they should be accessible via products page.just my 2 cents and maybe GG has some certain philosophy and vision we simply can not see yet (i didnt mean it to sound sarcastic, really:)
#6
As it works now, if I do "Search Forums for AIPlayer" it seems it just displays threads with "AIPlayer" in the title, not in the body.
No luck with google, neither. It seems google doesn't (or it's restricted to) go into garagegames forums...
01/06/2003 (9:27 am)
Well, talking about organization: Is it possible to search on forums threads' bodies (not just titles) ?As it works now, if I do "Search Forums for AIPlayer" it seems it just displays threads with "AIPlayer" in the title, not in the body.
No luck with google, neither. It seems google doesn't (or it's restricted to) go into garagegames forums...
#7
Google can't work on most of this site, because the whole site is not "online" at all time : it's driven by a database, which is queried by the PHP code that builds the page you're looking at. So Google can't really do its magic on it.
That's why when you do a Google restricted to GG, you get very few hits, and none of them on the forums, iirc
01/06/2003 (10:06 am)
Full text body search was taken out because of the CPU time it would hoard, making the server unresponsive to other users. Google can't work on most of this site, because the whole site is not "online" at all time : it's driven by a database, which is queried by the PHP code that builds the page you're looking at. So Google can't really do its magic on it.
That's why when you do a Google restricted to GG, you get very few hits, and none of them on the forums, iirc
#8
01/06/2003 (3:15 pm)
I only find minor problems now with the site. But over all I thin its pretty good. I just putit down to there been so much information, that it can be hard to get though.
#9
Create "Master Keyword" table along the lines of:
keyword nvarchar(25)
threadID int
cluster index it on keyword
build another table of just
keyword nvarchar(25) - fill this table with say the 1000 most popular searhes (eg, AIPlayer, shapebase, linux, foo, bar, moo etc)
schedule a daily task to scan the last 24 hours worth of posts for matches against the 1000 keyword list - for each match add an entry to the Master Keyword table, when done dedup the Master Keyword table.
Then add the Master Keyword table into the forum search logic.
Another very minor thing which I keep doing - when I'm searching lots I always forget to change the drop down box from Games to Forum - and so end up doing each search twice. Maybe make forum the dafault item in the drop down box ? Or better yet - default to the area the user is currently in - or default to the last chosen search type.
01/06/2003 (4:57 pm)
I fully understand why GG would not want to implement Full Text Searches for such a huge and active forum. I've got a suggestion which is a sort of half way house.Create "Master Keyword" table along the lines of:
keyword nvarchar(25)
threadID int
cluster index it on keyword
build another table of just
keyword nvarchar(25) - fill this table with say the 1000 most popular searhes (eg, AIPlayer, shapebase, linux, foo, bar, moo etc)
schedule a daily task to scan the last 24 hours worth of posts for matches against the 1000 keyword list - for each match add an entry to the Master Keyword table, when done dedup the Master Keyword table.
Then add the Master Keyword table into the forum search logic.
Another very minor thing which I keep doing - when I'm searching lots I always forget to change the drop down box from Games to Forum - and so end up doing each search twice. Maybe make forum the dafault item in the drop down box ? Or better yet - default to the area the user is currently in - or default to the last chosen search type.
Torque Owner Bryan "Over_burN" Lovely
Personally i have little trouble finding what i need on the site. Resources are great and forums are awsome as well...i could find perty much any and all info on this site that i need for my present game. I like the comments section for resources just for the pure fact that alot of resources can get debuged very quickly through comments where having to contact the resource sumiter through email would take forever also us less briliant people can ask questions through comments as well.
but
Yes some resources links are broke and should be removed....mabe a button at the bottom of the page that could flag a dead resource for the GG staff to be aware of.
And a forum filter (which i know is coming..cuz a birdy told me) so us developers dont have to search through the "play game" (IE marble blast :O) forums when i check my unread posts.
Understand that resources are usually done by community members with little time on there hands but want to help the community. So some resources are confusing or dead links or may not work correctly on your version of your game.
Personally i wouldnt complain about getting free code even if it takes a bit of effort. Having all the resources directly on GG would be bigger bandwidth and storage needs and well costs money.
A website update is coming soon from what i hear so mabe you will have some wishes answered.
Welcome to the community btw.
Burn