Poly Count Guidelines?
by Eamonn Glass · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 02/17/2009 (11:41 am) · 5 replies
Hi Folks,
I've read about the TGEA polycount guidelines. They seem appalingly low by today's standards. My understanding is that using LoD techniques and tweaking those should allow for fairly high poly count assets.
I'm thinking that 8,000 polys for a player character at the highest LOD would provide very nice visuals, and if LoDs were constructed properly would allow for acceptable performance on GPUs coming in the next 2 years.
Is it fair to assume that the engine places no limitations on poly count?
Are there any major "deficiencies" in the way the engine handles rendering that makes it less efficient than other AAA engines?
Does the TGEA and T3D engines include all the relevant texture technologies that go into making for outstanding visuals?
Are there any guidelines people are using today for games they plan to ship in the coming couple of years around polycounts?
Thanks in advance for any help available.
egg
I've read about the TGEA polycount guidelines. They seem appalingly low by today's standards. My understanding is that using LoD techniques and tweaking those should allow for fairly high poly count assets.
I'm thinking that 8,000 polys for a player character at the highest LOD would provide very nice visuals, and if LoDs were constructed properly would allow for acceptable performance on GPUs coming in the next 2 years.
Is it fair to assume that the engine places no limitations on poly count?
Are there any major "deficiencies" in the way the engine handles rendering that makes it less efficient than other AAA engines?
Does the TGEA and T3D engines include all the relevant texture technologies that go into making for outstanding visuals?
Are there any guidelines people are using today for games they plan to ship in the coming couple of years around polycounts?
Thanks in advance for any help available.
egg
#2
When you say "wasth the LoD progression with that" Do you mean making sure the progressions are not too "chunky" ?
Is that just the poly count of each LoD, or is there someting TGEA specific you are referring to?
Do you know how many LoDs Torque supports? I thought it was 5. We're looking at very long view distances, so something like:
8000 - 6000 - 3000 - 1500 - 150
... seems like a starting point.
==
wrt the Texture question.. yeah I was referring to things like spec, bump etc. Those techniques go a long way to "adding polys" and I was just wondering if the Torque engine is deficient in any obvious area in comparison to other engines.
Thanks for tolertaing the n00bness =)
egg
02/17/2009 (1:51 pm)
Thanks Morrock. I am neither coder nor artist hehe (I am sure it shows).When you say "wasth the LoD progression with that" Do you mean making sure the progressions are not too "chunky" ?
Is that just the poly count of each LoD, or is there someting TGEA specific you are referring to?
Do you know how many LoDs Torque supports? I thought it was 5. We're looking at very long view distances, so something like:
8000 - 6000 - 3000 - 1500 - 150
... seems like a starting point.
==
wrt the Texture question.. yeah I was referring to things like spec, bump etc. Those techniques go a long way to "adding polys" and I was just wondering if the Torque engine is deficient in any obvious area in comparison to other engines.
Thanks for tolertaing the n00bness =)
egg
#3
on the view distances its unlimited out of the box.
tgea can use all spec, bump etc.
you should watch some of the videos of what tgea can do also download the demo and try it out the demo has no time limit and you can do anything just about with the demo. to get to the editor int he demo press F11 or one of the other F keys on the keyboard. you can only make a new mission in the forage demo the other demo don't work as there's no files for it to read to get a new mission.
02/17/2009 (7:36 pm)
well i tested how many a exported can export you cant go over 11k polys if its over you have to cut it into anything less then 11k polys.on the view distances its unlimited out of the box.
tgea can use all spec, bump etc.
you should watch some of the videos of what tgea can do also download the demo and try it out the demo has no time limit and you can do anything just about with the demo. to get to the editor int he demo press F11 or one of the other F keys on the keyboard. you can only make a new mission in the forage demo the other demo don't work as there's no files for it to read to get a new mission.
#4
I'd really like to see a demo that shows off the capabilities of the engine better than the current demos. Everything I have checked out - be they demos or released games - look sorta... er... I really don't want to offend anyone .. but the stuff looks "dated" visually. I can't tell if that's the engine or the way the art was produced.
egg
02/17/2009 (7:40 pm)
Thanks Brandon. I thought 10k was a DTS limit and this should go away with Collada in T3D?I'd really like to see a demo that shows off the capabilities of the engine better than the current demos. Everything I have checked out - be they demos or released games - look sorta... er... I really don't want to offend anyone .. but the stuff looks "dated" visually. I can't tell if that's the engine or the way the art was produced.
egg
#5
Textures:
Yup, normal mapping, specular, detail maps, and even parallax mapping is included in the Barricade demo.
02/18/2009 (1:20 pm)
Quote:I thought 10k was a DTS limit and this should go away with Collada in T3D?10K is just the limit for some exporters, per mesh-object (not model), so Torque can load more than 10k per object, and also exporters can export more than 10k in the entire model (you just have to "chunk it up" with some exporters.. Haven't read anything confirming that, but it looks like it can do a lot of poly's, as it should be able to export anything that a collada exporter can.
Quote:When you say "wasth the LoD progression with that" Do you mean making sure the progressions are not too "chunky" ?I actually just meant to make sure your LoD progress well, and that you don't use an 8k model from view distances of 1m to 1000m, and then cut down to 6k or something. How badly or nicely the transition looks is up to you X-P I'm just talking performance.
Quote:Do you know how many LoDs Torque supports? I thought it was 5. We're looking at very long view distances, so something like:Hmm, no idea on the maximum LoDs (hopefully someone else can chime in, or you'll be able to find that info). But the way Torque handles LoD isn't the view distance. It's how many screen pixels the object takes up. So you would have Shape-1024, Shape-256, Shape-128, etc... I've never exported a model with LoD, so I don't know if this is total screen pixels, how wide in pixels, etc...
Quote:but the stuff looks "dated" visually. I can't tell if that's the engine or the way the art was produced.The art isn't at it's best, I'll agree with you there, but GG so far never really focused on getting dazzling visuals or graphics in their demos. It's mainly about showing what can be achieved feature-wise, how good it appears is up to how you use those features. Have you looked at the barricade demo? It has some nice planar reflection and parallax mapping. If you want to see some great graphics in Torque however, check out some great artists. Apparatus is working on a Warrior Camp demo for T3D
Textures:
Yup, normal mapping, specular, detail maps, and even parallax mapping is included in the Barricade demo.
Torque 3D Owner Morrock
Pretty reasonable assumption, obviously watch the LOD progression with that.
The engine? No limits. But your exporter may have a problem. I think the 2 that do this are 3dsMax and Milkshape (confirm?), but I know you can still export any number of poly's, but there are some exporters that place a limit (usually about 10k) per mesh/object. So just chunk your 20k model into two 10k meshes in the same model and you should be fine.