1.8 is it still beta?
by Caylo Gypsyblood · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 01/16/2009 (2:54 pm) · 14 replies
I got TGEA about 18 hours ago, set up my project and port over my artwork.
First thing i find out is i can not get a profiler dump. Next I find i cant not get a terrain hightmap to import. Then i spend quite some time trying to get from full screen to window mode, as it crash repeatedly when returning from fullscreen mode and why dont ALT-ENTER work? All sound output have a faint annoying rattle/hiss in the background. Are FoliageReplicators busted? Why do it crash so much when im editing a mission? Is something wrong with DIF's I put one in my mission and anytime it is in sight or near, the FPS drops by half. Is the alpha sorting issues something to do with not setting up materials?
I truly wish to be pleased with TGEA, but so far its less working then TGE. I had not seen anyone else complain much about TGEA, so i expect the fault may be some simple things i have overlooked. Anyone else have such issues with 1.8? The online docs are great, but never is mentioned any list of current bugs, or known issues- what would help out quite a bit, as one would know if it were something they did or a known fault with the product.
First thing i find out is i can not get a profiler dump. Next I find i cant not get a terrain hightmap to import. Then i spend quite some time trying to get from full screen to window mode, as it crash repeatedly when returning from fullscreen mode and why dont ALT-ENTER work? All sound output have a faint annoying rattle/hiss in the background. Are FoliageReplicators busted? Why do it crash so much when im editing a mission? Is something wrong with DIF's I put one in my mission and anytime it is in sight or near, the FPS drops by half. Is the alpha sorting issues something to do with not setting up materials?
I truly wish to be pleased with TGEA, but so far its less working then TGE. I had not seen anyone else complain much about TGEA, so i expect the fault may be some simple things i have overlooked. Anyone else have such issues with 1.8? The online docs are great, but never is mentioned any list of current bugs, or known issues- what would help out quite a bit, as one would know if it were something they did or a known fault with the product.
#2
I checked with the tut's when i found that hightmaps dont import. Im 99.9% sure this is not a fault on my side here.
Sound is using XAudio, when TGEA start there is a POP sound (as tapping on microphone would cause), what is when the static hissy sound start and do not end until TGEA is closed. (I try DirectSound with same result.) My drivers are perfectly upto date.
Im not having output from profilerDump(); into the console, it do make a .txt file so i know im using profiler correctly.
I am now reading about material definition's and alpha settings, seems this one is something i can fix.
Is "(hopefully) near future" a week away or more then months away?
01/16/2009 (4:13 pm)
The DIF is export from constructor as EXPORT TO DIF- what is reported to work fine with TGEA from others on forums, it have 3 textures what i have not made a specific material for.I checked with the tut's when i found that hightmaps dont import. Im 99.9% sure this is not a fault on my side here.
Sound is using XAudio, when TGEA start there is a POP sound (as tapping on microphone would cause), what is when the static hissy sound start and do not end until TGEA is closed. (I try DirectSound with same result.) My drivers are perfectly upto date.
Im not having output from profilerDump(); into the console, it do make a .txt file so i know im using profiler correctly.
I am now reading about material definition's and alpha settings, seems this one is something i can fix.
Is "(hopefully) near future" a week away or more then months away?
#3
As for heightmaps, I have successfully imported heightmaps, they just don't work correctly, or as expected.
I have no clue how to figure out your sound problem. I haven't had any issues with it.
As for the profileDump(), I've never used it, so hopefully someone with more knowelege can help you with that.
01/16/2009 (4:29 pm)
Quote:EXPORT TO DIFShould be exported using legacy tgea dif or tgea map2dif plus for use in tgea. (had to open constructor to figure out the wording.)
As for heightmaps, I have successfully imported heightmaps, they just don't work correctly, or as expected.
I have no clue how to figure out your sound problem. I haven't had any issues with it.
Quote:Is "(hopefully) near future" a week away or more then months away?hehe, your guess is as good as mine. Hopefully, sooner rather than later.
As for the profileDump(), I've never used it, so hopefully someone with more knowelege can help you with that.
#4
There's a couple of issues with the resultant DIF, mainly BSP breaks can be seen over flat surfaces at certain angles (comes up as a dark green line at an acute angle) and NULL doesn't work, but performance is tremendous.
Constructor, and especially export can be a bit "temperamental", just because soemthing crashes on export doesn't mean that you shouldn't try it again exactly the same.
Oddly enough my problems with Constructor have all vanished and it now compiles without arguement every time - which are famous last words ....
01/16/2009 (4:44 pm)
map2dif_plus_tgea.exe comes in your TGEA1.8/engine/tools folder. Stick it into the Constructor directory. Boot up constructor and go file -> export -> edit configurations. Click on "map2dif plus TSE" and click edit. Select the line that says "map2dif plus TSE" and change the command line to "map2dif plus TGEA". Hit okay and it should run.There's a couple of issues with the resultant DIF, mainly BSP breaks can be seen over flat surfaces at certain angles (comes up as a dark green line at an acute angle) and NULL doesn't work, but performance is tremendous.
Constructor, and especially export can be a bit "temperamental", just because soemthing crashes on export doesn't mean that you shouldn't try it again exactly the same.
Oddly enough my problems with Constructor have all vanished and it now compiles without arguement every time - which are famous last words ....
#5
The heightmap thing... I'll have to try that later, I actually preferred Atlas :/
But...
01/16/2009 (4:53 pm)
I couldn't say.. I played with 1.8 for an hour and went back to 1.7.1, but I didn't experience any of issues you are reporting, just a loss of performance.The heightmap thing... I'll have to try that later, I actually preferred Atlas :/
But...
Quote:Should be exported using legacy tgea dif or tgea map2dif plus for use in tgea.caught my eye. I use EXPORT TO DIF in Constructor and it works fine for TGEa 1.7.1. The legacy TGEa exporter is for TGEa 1.0.x I believe. Some people do use map2dif for TGEa but I don't, because results seemed too erratic, others swear by it. I don't use MAP files anymore either, but keep my source interiors in the CSX format, which might have something to do with it.
#6
01/16/2009 (4:54 pm)
Quote:Constructor, and especially export can be a bit "temperamental", just because soemthing crashes on export doesn't mean that you shouldn't try it again exactly the same.When it doubt, do it again! Save often.
#7
Sorry, mike this is incorrect - you should use "Export as Dif" when exporting for TGEA.
edit: Oops, saw Michael already responded... sorry
01/16/2009 (5:16 pm)
Quote:Should be exported using legacy tgea dif or tgea map2dif plus for use in tgea. (had to open constructor to figure out the wording.)
Sorry, mike this is incorrect - you should use "Export as Dif" when exporting for TGEA.
edit: Oops, saw Michael already responded... sorry
#8
I did try TGEA specific DIF exporters without any better results. I also experimented with the TGEA demo DIF to conclude the same outcome, only unchanging variable with testing is that im using an .TER file pulled from my old TGE project. Im starting to suspect It is not the DIFs but moreover something with that mission. Time to test in a example mission provided with the SDK....
For profilerDump(); fix, it works fine when used right after profilerDumpToFile("... But it just will not work unless a profilerDumpToFile is called right before it.
The 'static hissy sound' is still a concern, im worried that someplace in TGEA code there is an pre-amp who is overdriveing my sound systems max volume settings (yet overall sound volume is not being overly amplified). If i turn my external amps up high i can actually hear tinny chirps as the HD light flicker or i task out and load web pages, something i expect to witness from cheep sound hardware and this is not cheep sound equipment. I have not noticed this type of behavior before, but am now on the lookout (or should say have my ears open) for any other application that case same symptoms.
Terrain hightmap import into 1.8 is just simple busted. It do not work with any of the supplied TGEA SDK demo 'games'.
Im still suffering an more then TGE amount of mission editor crashing. Course, it may be related to testing and trying to pinpoint any of the above mention problems.
Over all i have never run into so many productivity stumping bugs in under 24hours of using an SDK. It burns the motivation down.
01/16/2009 (7:10 pm)
Thanks fellow TGEA users. I did try TGEA specific DIF exporters without any better results. I also experimented with the TGEA demo DIF to conclude the same outcome, only unchanging variable with testing is that im using an .TER file pulled from my old TGE project. Im starting to suspect It is not the DIFs but moreover something with that mission. Time to test in a example mission provided with the SDK....
For profilerDump(); fix, it works fine when used right after profilerDumpToFile("... But it just will not work unless a profilerDumpToFile is called right before it.
The 'static hissy sound' is still a concern, im worried that someplace in TGEA code there is an pre-amp who is overdriveing my sound systems max volume settings (yet overall sound volume is not being overly amplified). If i turn my external amps up high i can actually hear tinny chirps as the HD light flicker or i task out and load web pages, something i expect to witness from cheep sound hardware and this is not cheep sound equipment. I have not noticed this type of behavior before, but am now on the lookout (or should say have my ears open) for any other application that case same symptoms.
Terrain hightmap import into 1.8 is just simple busted. It do not work with any of the supplied TGEA SDK demo 'games'.
Im still suffering an more then TGE amount of mission editor crashing. Course, it may be related to testing and trying to pinpoint any of the above mention problems.
Over all i have never run into so many productivity stumping bugs in under 24hours of using an SDK. It burns the motivation down.
#9
As Steve mentioned there are issues with the supplied map2dif plus program - if you use it and scale the dif in game you'll find dts objects near the interior turning pink!! So best stick with constructor and use "Export for Dif"
It might be a pain to get ported over but it's well worth it when you get there so stick with things
01/17/2009 (1:04 am)
@Caylo - I feel your pain, it took us 3 months to get everything ported over and working, I haven't taken the step to 1.8 yet though as I didn't fancy the performance drop between 1.7.1 and 1.8.As Steve mentioned there are issues with the supplied map2dif plus program - if you use it and scale the dif in game you'll find dts objects near the interior turning pink!! So best stick with constructor and use "Export for Dif"
It might be a pain to get ported over but it's well worth it when you get there so stick with things
#10
01/17/2009 (5:39 am)
test
#11
01/17/2009 (5:41 am)
Interesting information. I thought the export to dif was just for tge. I've been using the map2dif_plus_tgea from 1.7.0 and haven't had any real problems with it. I'll give map2dif a try and see if it works better. Ya never know until you try. :-)
#12
01/17/2009 (8:40 am)
Map2dif is for TGE - it's "Export as DIF" that works for TGEA + TGE, and includes the new DIF features (lighting, embedded shapes, etc) 
#13
01/17/2009 (1:16 pm)
If you want to be "pleased" with TGEA, don't use 1.8. Use 1.7.1 until 1.8 is stabilized and performance is increased.
#14
1.8 TGEA's sound system do not exhibit 'static hissy sound' on any other of my computers here. This is the only computer i have here with built in hardware HD-DSP MPEG encoding/decoding. The 'static hissy sound' is from my unconventional hardware configuration on my main computer.
I have dug deep into the hightmaps texture importing problems and even found some simple script typo's. As some may know TGEA1.8 files/folders are setup in transition to the great and powerful T3D. I really like what i see in way of script and code re-organization. But because of the mission editor files being moved around so much and my total lack of ever delving into them in the first place; Even if i was looking right at the bug who cause import hightmap textures to not actually update, i would not know it.
From what i have seen so far TGEA1.8 is actually MORE then just a 1.7 that works with MAC's. And right off the bat one might have FPS lower with 1.8, but if you have the inkling see what 1.8 will do when you dump mass amounts of highpoly DTSs into a mission. Something in the 1.8 rendering pipe is able to smoothly spit out complex scenes built with static hardware brush or equivalent- for engines i have license for in same category as TGEA- no fancy skin/shader/material. TGEA 1.8 drop alot of FPS with terrain and alpha sorting tossed into the scene, and a few DIF make 1.8's performance truly ugly (in same scenes, im sure design optimizations could get most of performance back). But some of the engines i compared TGEA1.8 against dont even have BSP anymore. This was a hardware brush or equivalent- performance comparison only and not a feature comparison, considering some of the features TGEA do not have to deal with in rendering pipe it may be biased more to TGEAs much simple rendering pipe.
If i could get highmap texture importing to work i would be so VERY HAPPY and utterly impressed with 1.8.
01/17/2009 (1:58 pm)
Im done with the DIF problem. Turns out the performance loss i was concerned about was normal DIF behavior. I imported some very complex DTSs to test poly soup collision and found DTS behavior to be perfect for what i expect. Im still going to be using DIF, but only as simple BOX shapes, think of like a stage to hold my props when needed because of zones and portals. 1.8 TGEA's sound system do not exhibit 'static hissy sound' on any other of my computers here. This is the only computer i have here with built in hardware HD-DSP MPEG encoding/decoding. The 'static hissy sound' is from my unconventional hardware configuration on my main computer.
I have dug deep into the hightmaps texture importing problems and even found some simple script typo's. As some may know TGEA1.8 files/folders are setup in transition to the great and powerful T3D. I really like what i see in way of script and code re-organization. But because of the mission editor files being moved around so much and my total lack of ever delving into them in the first place; Even if i was looking right at the bug who cause import hightmap textures to not actually update, i would not know it.
From what i have seen so far TGEA1.8 is actually MORE then just a 1.7 that works with MAC's. And right off the bat one might have FPS lower with 1.8, but if you have the inkling see what 1.8 will do when you dump mass amounts of highpoly DTSs into a mission. Something in the 1.8 rendering pipe is able to smoothly spit out complex scenes built with static hardware brush or equivalent- for engines i have license for in same category as TGEA- no fancy skin/shader/material. TGEA 1.8 drop alot of FPS with terrain and alpha sorting tossed into the scene, and a few DIF make 1.8's performance truly ugly (in same scenes, im sure design optimizations could get most of performance back). But some of the engines i compared TGEA1.8 against dont even have BSP anymore. This was a hardware brush or equivalent- performance comparison only and not a feature comparison, considering some of the features TGEA do not have to deal with in rendering pipe it may be biased more to TGEAs much simple rendering pipe.
If i could get highmap texture importing to work i would be so VERY HAPPY and utterly impressed with 1.8.
Torque Owner Mike Rowley
Mike Rowley
Have you run your .map files thru the tgea mapToDif? If not, I'm surprised they aren't crashing torque when you try to import them.
Heightmaps take 2 steps to get them in. Lara Engebretson has some awesome video tutorials here.
There is a bug when switching from windowd to full screen and back. There is a fix in the forums somewhere.
Check your sound card drivers and which sound device you are using in torque. (in the options menu) to see if there is a problem.
As for the profiler, are you talking about the console.log? I don't have a problem with it. It works. (aside from that, I don't know.)
If you have an alpha enabled texture, you need a material definition. Look thru the other scripts to find out how to make it. It's not hard. (if I can do it, anyone can.)
There are still bugs, and we are expecting a bug fix in the (hopefully) near future.
Overall, tgea is a great engine. It's not as simple getting things setup as it is with tge, but it is a far advanced engine, so you have to take that into consideration.