TGEA vs Unity 3D in 2009
by Staples · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 01/14/2009 (3:43 pm) · 73 replies
I decided to post this on both forums in order to get a proper result taking into account any bias. There is some good info comparing these on this forum already, but I want people to have a clear cut comparison, with the Windows Developer coming out for Unity, this opens it up as an option for many people who otherwise would have to use Torque.
These are basically the two engines we are deciding between.
Our game will be a multiplayer rpg with a client/server setup similar to what you would get in a MMO, but on a much smaller scale.
I have found *some* info on people comparing the two engines, however a lot of that information is largely out of date and quite a few things have changed since. Unity 2.5 is nearly out, and this means that we will be able to develop on windows and publish for BOTH windows and mac with the Indie version.
As I see it there are a couple of major feature differences. I understand that you have the source with TGEA, meaning anything is *technically* possible, but from what I've read some of it is a lot of work to implement.
If I miss anything please let me know. I'll start comparing the Indie versions, then the Pro/Commercial versions
Unity Indie vs TGEA Indie:
- TGEA is $295 USD, Unity Indie is $200 USD.
- TGEA gives you source code, Unity does not.
- TGEA has dynamic shadows from players and I believe you can get it working on other stuff with some effort. Unity Indie is restricted to blob shadows.
- Unity has PhysX, Joints and Ragdolls built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has Seamless terrains built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has much better documentation, tutorials and resources than Torque
- TGEA works alot nicer with external svn software.
- Unity has a much better scene editor
- Unity has a much better and more efficient art pipeline
Unity Pro vs TGEA Commercial:
- TGEA is $1495 USD, Unity Indie is $1499 USD.
- TGEA gives you source code, Unity does not.
- Unity seems to have all of the features that TGEA has
- Unity has self shadows and overall more shadow options (is this true)
- Unity has PhysX, Joints and Ragdolls built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has a much better
- Unity has much better documentation, tutorials and resources than Torque
- TGEA works alot nicer with external svn software.
- Unity has a much better scene editor
- Unity has a much better and more efficient art pipeline
It is a bit hard to compare since TGEA has the advantage of having the source, but I have included what is out of the box and not 'quickly and easy' to implement even with the source in TGEA.
Having the Source code can be good and bad. When you do have the source you CAN fix bugs yourself and implement other things which is good, however as you see with TGEA, this can mean the developers aren't particularly quick to release any fixes. When you don't have the source as with Unity, it is up to the engine developer to fix the bugs, something the Unity team apparently do pretty damn quickly - this of course will not be the case with all engine developers.
Let me know if I have missed anything or if there are any suggestions. I have to allegiance to either product (yet) so I am just putting it as I see it with what information I have gathered.
These are basically the two engines we are deciding between.
Our game will be a multiplayer rpg with a client/server setup similar to what you would get in a MMO, but on a much smaller scale.
I have found *some* info on people comparing the two engines, however a lot of that information is largely out of date and quite a few things have changed since. Unity 2.5 is nearly out, and this means that we will be able to develop on windows and publish for BOTH windows and mac with the Indie version.
As I see it there are a couple of major feature differences. I understand that you have the source with TGEA, meaning anything is *technically* possible, but from what I've read some of it is a lot of work to implement.
If I miss anything please let me know. I'll start comparing the Indie versions, then the Pro/Commercial versions
Unity Indie vs TGEA Indie:
- TGEA is $295 USD, Unity Indie is $200 USD.
- TGEA gives you source code, Unity does not.
- TGEA has dynamic shadows from players and I believe you can get it working on other stuff with some effort. Unity Indie is restricted to blob shadows.
- Unity has PhysX, Joints and Ragdolls built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has Seamless terrains built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has much better documentation, tutorials and resources than Torque
- TGEA works alot nicer with external svn software.
- Unity has a much better scene editor
- Unity has a much better and more efficient art pipeline
Unity Pro vs TGEA Commercial:
- TGEA is $1495 USD, Unity Indie is $1499 USD.
- TGEA gives you source code, Unity does not.
- Unity seems to have all of the features that TGEA has
- Unity has self shadows and overall more shadow options (is this true)
- Unity has PhysX, Joints and Ragdolls built in, TGEA does not.
- Unity has a much better
- Unity has much better documentation, tutorials and resources than Torque
- TGEA works alot nicer with external svn software.
- Unity has a much better scene editor
- Unity has a much better and more efficient art pipeline
It is a bit hard to compare since TGEA has the advantage of having the source, but I have included what is out of the box and not 'quickly and easy' to implement even with the source in TGEA.
Having the Source code can be good and bad. When you do have the source you CAN fix bugs yourself and implement other things which is good, however as you see with TGEA, this can mean the developers aren't particularly quick to release any fixes. When you don't have the source as with Unity, it is up to the engine developer to fix the bugs, something the Unity team apparently do pretty damn quickly - this of course will not be the case with all engine developers.
Let me know if I have missed anything or if there are any suggestions. I have to allegiance to either product (yet) so I am just putting it as I see it with what information I have gathered.
About the author
#22
Okay I though I should update this thread to let everyone know how it went.
In the end we felt that we preferred the C4 Engine over TGEA because of some features and other aspects. Then we chose C4 over Unity largely because we aren't happy with the restrictions on the Unity license, and also because we love the possibilities that Voxel Terrain provides as opposed to heightmap terrain.
Torque 3D might end up being a better competitor for C4, but we took into consideration that it won't be out for a while, and that it will have a significant price hike, so we decided to rule it out.
It was a very tough choice and all 3 are quite good engines, C4 just felt like a better fit for our project.
01/24/2009 (6:15 pm)
Okay I though I should update this thread to let everyone know how it went.
In the end we felt that we preferred the C4 Engine over TGEA because of some features and other aspects. Then we chose C4 over Unity largely because we aren't happy with the restrictions on the Unity license, and also because we love the possibilities that Voxel Terrain provides as opposed to heightmap terrain.
Torque 3D might end up being a better competitor for C4, but we took into consideration that it won't be out for a while, and that it will have a significant price hike, so we decided to rule it out.
It was a very tough choice and all 3 are quite good engines, C4 just felt like a better fit for our project.
#23
01/24/2009 (6:39 pm)
gratz lol hope you have fun building your game as that's whats its all about and that you pick what is right for you to get things done.
#24
But just for imformational purposes TGE/A does have ports both to PS2?/PS3/Xbox/Xbox 360 just so the information is there. It's just a matter of proving that your are a licenses developer for said consoles to gain access to the licenses for them.
Do stop by and let us know how your game development goes in 3-6 months.
01/24/2009 (6:53 pm)
I agree with Brandon here. It seems like you picked the best engine for your teams stengths / weaknesses. Thats ultimately what it is about as any game engine is on equal grounds with the right the right team behind your development.But just for imformational purposes TGE/A does have ports both to PS2?/PS3/Xbox/Xbox 360 just so the information is there. It's just a matter of proving that your are a licenses developer for said consoles to gain access to the licenses for them.
Do stop by and let us know how your game development goes in 3-6 months.
#25
Yeah C4 does PS3 and will do Xbox360 in the future - but our current project is only planned for the PC, so we didn't need take that into consideration too much.
01/24/2009 (6:59 pm)
Yeah C4 does PS3 and will do Xbox360 in the future - but our current project is only planned for the PC, so we didn't need take that into consideration too much.
#26
It should also be noted, that voxel based terrain was coming "in the next major update" for over a year and a half before it actually happened. It was beginning to smell like vapor to me, but I was happy to see it when it came out earlier this month. But given that, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on those things in the pipeline. I am sure when they do come out, that they will be good, C4 is a quality engine, but I'm skeptical about the "it's going to have ___ in the next update" type comments as a result.
I do think that C4 is a legitimate contender to TGEA right now. Graphically, it exceeds it. In some other areas it doesn't match up as well. It should also be noted, that while I did download and play with the January update, I haven't done any actual coding with C4 in about a year. So it is possible I'm missing some subtle features that they didn't put in the build notes during that time as I've never done a code merge or anything, and to be honest I never did much of anything with the engine other than some dabblings to see what it could do and if moving to it was a move that I should seriously consider. I boughtit when TGEA was sort of in a state of limbo, prior to 1.7, probably around the time it was in 1.0.
01/25/2009 (10:43 pm)
@Staples: Things like vehicles, precipitation, replicators, wind, GUI options, etc. Those little things that Torque has from being out for such a long period of time. It should also be noted, that voxel based terrain was coming "in the next major update" for over a year and a half before it actually happened. It was beginning to smell like vapor to me, but I was happy to see it when it came out earlier this month. But given that, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on those things in the pipeline. I am sure when they do come out, that they will be good, C4 is a quality engine, but I'm skeptical about the "it's going to have ___ in the next update" type comments as a result.
I do think that C4 is a legitimate contender to TGEA right now. Graphically, it exceeds it. In some other areas it doesn't match up as well. It should also be noted, that while I did download and play with the January update, I haven't done any actual coding with C4 in about a year. So it is possible I'm missing some subtle features that they didn't put in the build notes during that time as I've never done a code merge or anything, and to be honest I never did much of anything with the engine other than some dabblings to see what it could do and if moving to it was a move that I should seriously consider. I boughtit when TGEA was sort of in a state of limbo, prior to 1.7, probably around the time it was in 1.0.
#27
Yeah I know it took them a while to get the new terrain out, however I have checked the release notes and there was still quite a few updates during that time (as in it's not like it went for 18 months without any updates or anything like that).
We do understand that this may be a risk, but even as is we could probably plug-in physics and networking and make use of the engine. Either way we will be prototyping with it for at least 6 months, so by the time we have finished prototyping we will know if we want to get more licenses and add some more members to the team etc.
At the end of the day we have decided to trust a single developer and his engine over what torque has to offer.
Honestly Voxel Terrains was a huge feature for us, it definitely swayed the favor towards C4 significantly :)
01/25/2009 (10:57 pm)
Yeah I know it took them a while to get the new terrain out, however I have checked the release notes and there was still quite a few updates during that time (as in it's not like it went for 18 months without any updates or anything like that).
We do understand that this may be a risk, but even as is we could probably plug-in physics and networking and make use of the engine. Either way we will be prototyping with it for at least 6 months, so by the time we have finished prototyping we will know if we want to get more licenses and add some more members to the team etc.
At the end of the day we have decided to trust a single developer and his engine over what torque has to offer.
Honestly Voxel Terrains was a huge feature for us, it definitely swayed the favor towards C4 significantly :)
#28
I'm not at all saying your decision to use C4 was a bad one. It's a very solid engine. I absolutely love the shadows and lighting, and it has some really cool out of the box effects and a good demo to show them off. If I were starting a project and I was prepared to integrate a third party physics and networking system as well as some of the other little things, I would give C4 consideration. The way it stands right now, graphically, its more dazzling than TGEA. Mainly due to the lighting and shadows.
To me those are the three legitimate low cost engines right now. Unity is the easiest to work with. C4 is the best looking. TGEA is the most fully featured.
01/25/2009 (11:57 pm)
Yeah they were updating the engine relatively frequently. The programmer for that engine is pretty damn good. But it's basically a one man show. The amount of work that gets done and the quality of that engine is pretty jaw dropping if that is taken into consideration. But there's only so much that a small team can do on the little things, which is why some things will probably be left for projects to implement on their own. He does a good job of trying to integrate public suggestions though, but there's only so much they can do. I'm not at all saying your decision to use C4 was a bad one. It's a very solid engine. I absolutely love the shadows and lighting, and it has some really cool out of the box effects and a good demo to show them off. If I were starting a project and I was prepared to integrate a third party physics and networking system as well as some of the other little things, I would give C4 consideration. The way it stands right now, graphically, its more dazzling than TGEA. Mainly due to the lighting and shadows.
To me those are the three legitimate low cost engines right now. Unity is the easiest to work with. C4 is the best looking. TGEA is the most fully featured.
#29
I do agree with some of that, but if you really think about - how many suggestions would make it into Torque? Torque has quite a few products, and even if they do have more than one developer on any project, I suspect they don't spend as much time on it. Let's face it has there even been an update to address the 1.8 issues?
There are definitely advantages to having more than one developer, but those advantages are very often lost with bigger companies - there is simply a lot of overhead. I'm also a sole developer on some other software, and one person can get as much done as 3 people can if he knows what he is doing.
A perfect example of this is T3D. They have what, 30 developers? How many new features do you really think they are going to pack into it? How long is it going to take them?
Even though they have 30 developers they have a substantial overhead, even moreso since the developers are spread all over the globe.
Anyhow it really depends on the people involved and the leadership, I'm sure they will do a good job on T3D, but even then C4 will still have the upper hand on some things - such as voxel terrains.
Also another part of our decision was the license, $350 for C4 with lifetime upgrades, or wait for T3D which is likely to double in price or more... So that part was a pretty easy decision.
01/26/2009 (12:47 am)
I do agree with some of that, but if you really think about - how many suggestions would make it into Torque? Torque has quite a few products, and even if they do have more than one developer on any project, I suspect they don't spend as much time on it. Let's face it has there even been an update to address the 1.8 issues?
There are definitely advantages to having more than one developer, but those advantages are very often lost with bigger companies - there is simply a lot of overhead. I'm also a sole developer on some other software, and one person can get as much done as 3 people can if he knows what he is doing.
A perfect example of this is T3D. They have what, 30 developers? How many new features do you really think they are going to pack into it? How long is it going to take them?
Even though they have 30 developers they have a substantial overhead, even moreso since the developers are spread all over the globe.
Anyhow it really depends on the people involved and the leadership, I'm sure they will do a good job on T3D, but even then C4 will still have the upper hand on some things - such as voxel terrains.
Also another part of our decision was the license, $350 for C4 with lifetime upgrades, or wait for T3D which is likely to double in price or more... So that part was a pretty easy decision.
#30
When I discovered Unity, I was blown away by the stability and features of the engine, I had Mac which was the bottom of the line and yet Unity was working fast and stable there, I made similar scenes to benchmark TGB, TGEA and Unity performance on the same hardware (Intel 945 cards - this is my base line as I'm a indie developer aiming at casual market were Intel cards Is a GOD, unfortunately). Unity wins hands up.
So, I went ahead, got Unity Pro, a better Mac and enjoying the stability of it on all the platforms (including publishing for Windows). Wide adoption of Unity web player makes it more and more appealing to use it instead of Flash and Java. The only downside - no Linux support (it's in the works and probably will be avail this year) and no server-side networking (only P2P networking, which is similar to InstantAction approach when players host a game).
I'm having a love/hate relationship with Torque ever since V12 engine and was never able to enjoy it (as much as I want it...). The only parts of Torque I like are seamless server side networking and Linux support (coming back, sigh...).
I own all the GG licenses for PC (since V12, almost 9 years now) and keep my figures crossed for Torque3D quality... If Torque3D fails in quality on low end cards (no matter how much ppl are screaming about special effects and shaders, 80% of casual gamers play without those effects and will not buy a game if it fails or slow on their machines, period), usability and performance, I'll be divorcing my relationship :( and be moving on. I dont care about license pricing (if it's in $0-$1500 range), but give me a stable platform that can cover 99.9% of my customers or it will get more expensive if I cannot sell to all of them.
Look at Unity guys - they managed to make Unity the way it is in a fraction of time comparing to the TGE/TGEA development timeline.
So, the bottom line is - use the best tool for your trade, I guess: Unity for casual desktop and web gaming, Torque for networking games with mid-range video cards as minimum. And, Unity has much better art pipeline (direct support for Blender, Maya, 3DSMax, Cinema4D, etc) - let see if Torque3D will get improvement in that area.
01/31/2009 (11:16 am)
Here is my 2 cents.When I discovered Unity, I was blown away by the stability and features of the engine, I had Mac which was the bottom of the line and yet Unity was working fast and stable there, I made similar scenes to benchmark TGB, TGEA and Unity performance on the same hardware (Intel 945 cards - this is my base line as I'm a indie developer aiming at casual market were Intel cards Is a GOD, unfortunately). Unity wins hands up.
So, I went ahead, got Unity Pro, a better Mac and enjoying the stability of it on all the platforms (including publishing for Windows). Wide adoption of Unity web player makes it more and more appealing to use it instead of Flash and Java. The only downside - no Linux support (it's in the works and probably will be avail this year) and no server-side networking (only P2P networking, which is similar to InstantAction approach when players host a game).
I'm having a love/hate relationship with Torque ever since V12 engine and was never able to enjoy it (as much as I want it...). The only parts of Torque I like are seamless server side networking and Linux support (coming back, sigh...).
I own all the GG licenses for PC (since V12, almost 9 years now) and keep my figures crossed for Torque3D quality... If Torque3D fails in quality on low end cards (no matter how much ppl are screaming about special effects and shaders, 80% of casual gamers play without those effects and will not buy a game if it fails or slow on their machines, period), usability and performance, I'll be divorcing my relationship :( and be moving on. I dont care about license pricing (if it's in $0-$1500 range), but give me a stable platform that can cover 99.9% of my customers or it will get more expensive if I cannot sell to all of them.
Look at Unity guys - they managed to make Unity the way it is in a fraction of time comparing to the TGE/TGEA development timeline.
So, the bottom line is - use the best tool for your trade, I guess: Unity for casual desktop and web gaming, Torque for networking games with mid-range video cards as minimum. And, Unity has much better art pipeline (direct support for Blender, Maya, 3DSMax, Cinema4D, etc) - let see if Torque3D will get improvement in that area.
#31
The TGEA license is only for source-code access. Artists, level designers and script programmers don't need a license. With Unity you need a license for *everyone* who'll use it's editor.
Also, there's the source control issue. Unity scenes and prefabs can only be versioned (at all) by using Unity's Asset Server, which costs an extra $500 *per seat*. Not to mention Unity stores scenes and prefabs in binary files, which can't be merged. Productivity drops fast as the team gets bigger, nullifying the amazing art pipeline. The compete lack of debugging features beyond console printing also hurts. Costs scale *very* badly for large projects and teams.
Unity is very, very nice if you're working alone or in really small teams (3 or so people, depending on the project), for prototyping and webgames (plugin is very nice and installs without hassle). You can setup wildly different gameplay types much faster than Torque, but I wouldn't recommend it for anything which requires heavy collaborative work over a long time span.
02/03/2009 (1:50 pm)
Unity is actually far more expensive than most of you think. The TGEA license is only for source-code access. Artists, level designers and script programmers don't need a license. With Unity you need a license for *everyone* who'll use it's editor.
Also, there's the source control issue. Unity scenes and prefabs can only be versioned (at all) by using Unity's Asset Server, which costs an extra $500 *per seat*. Not to mention Unity stores scenes and prefabs in binary files, which can't be merged. Productivity drops fast as the team gets bigger, nullifying the amazing art pipeline. The compete lack of debugging features beyond console printing also hurts. Costs scale *very* badly for large projects and teams.
Unity is very, very nice if you're working alone or in really small teams (3 or so people, depending on the project), for prototyping and webgames (plugin is very nice and installs without hassle). You can setup wildly different gameplay types much faster than Torque, but I wouldn't recommend it for anything which requires heavy collaborative work over a long time span.
#32
Artists can just use Maya/Blender to build levels for Unity.
There is no source control issue with Unity assets - just use SVN if you want to (btw, Unity asset Server is based on SVN, I think).
As for merging levels - did you try to merge 150Mb XML-a-like file? is it helpful/successful? Never was for me...
As for the team support - there are few Unity based projects are coming up with a decent amount of developers in each (example - FusionFall devs from Cartoon Networks) - all claim that Unity Asset Server is worth the money and does the job of keeping the team away from the bottlenecks.
Scripting debugging - Torque does not have a decent script debugger either, Unity debugger is actually in active works (I've heard so). A good coder does not need a debugger - it was said once by a very skilled coder :) FYI, Lua scripts are always debugged with console - and big studios are just used to it, helps with self-discipline :)
But the bottom line is - cost is irrelevant if you dont have a stable/"easy to use" tool... you'll eat $1000 difference in first month while trying to figure out Torque while finishing a game with Unity on the other hand ;)
02/04/2009 (7:20 pm)
@ManoelArtists can just use Maya/Blender to build levels for Unity.
There is no source control issue with Unity assets - just use SVN if you want to (btw, Unity asset Server is based on SVN, I think).
As for merging levels - did you try to merge 150Mb XML-a-like file? is it helpful/successful? Never was for me...
As for the team support - there are few Unity based projects are coming up with a decent amount of developers in each (example - FusionFall devs from Cartoon Networks) - all claim that Unity Asset Server is worth the money and does the job of keeping the team away from the bottlenecks.
Scripting debugging - Torque does not have a decent script debugger either, Unity debugger is actually in active works (I've heard so). A good coder does not need a debugger - it was said once by a very skilled coder :) FYI, Lua scripts are always debugged with console - and big studios are just used to it, helps with self-discipline :)
But the bottom line is - cost is irrelevant if you dont have a stable/"easy to use" tool... you'll eat $1000 difference in first month while trying to figure out Torque while finishing a game with Unity on the other hand ;)
#33
So Unity allows you to develop a highly polished game with quality assets in less than a month? So it generates the game design, models, and levels for you? Nice...
Every engine has a learning curve. Some developers will learn faster than others, and that also depends on which engine they are learning. There is not an engine that is perfect, just an engine that is best for you or your team. You are throwing around quite a few arbitrary numbers and statement without much backing.
By the way, I have spoken directly with developers (Indie and AAA) who have echoed exactly what Manoel stated about Unity's server source control.
02/04/2009 (7:43 pm)
@Alexander - You are in the wrong about scripting. There are two IDEs (Torsion and Codeweaver) that are excellent at editing and debugging TorqueScript. By the way, could you please provide the name of the coder who said one does not need a debugger? There is not a single programmer or scripter in the world that hasn't had to debug code at some point.So Unity allows you to develop a highly polished game with quality assets in less than a month? So it generates the game design, models, and levels for you? Nice...
Every engine has a learning curve. Some developers will learn faster than others, and that also depends on which engine they are learning. There is not an engine that is perfect, just an engine that is best for you or your team. You are throwing around quite a few arbitrary numbers and statement without much backing.
By the way, I have spoken directly with developers (Indie and AAA) who have echoed exactly what Manoel stated about Unity's server source control.
#34
So, how can everyone compare TGEA to something that is not out yet? I can't even get a working Windows demo of ANY current Unity Engine.
Unity's lic restrictions are so strict, you can't even get a demo:)
02/04/2009 (9:46 pm)
I was under the impression (directly from Unity Marketing) that Windows support(XP and Vista) was not available yet and will be available until 2.5???? Which I was told several weeks ago, that it would be released "any day now".So, how can everyone compare TGEA to something that is not out yet? I can't even get a working Windows demo of ANY current Unity Engine.
Unity's lic restrictions are so strict, you can't even get a demo:)
#35
@Michael - appreciate your sarcasm :) it also makes coffee ;) on a serious note, you are definitely biased and it's fine. I did not say Torque did not have a debugger, I said "Torque does not have a decent script debugger", and it's my opinion, which may look incorrect to Torsion or Codeweaver users. I feel like the conversation goes into a flame mode, so I'm going to stop posting - I said what I wanted to say for people to judge.
02/05/2009 (5:09 pm)
@Randy - you can publish a game in Unity to Windows, only the Editor is Mac only at the moment, which will change with 2.5 release. You can get a demo as a browser plugin - visit this link (http://unity3d.com/gallery/live-demos/tropical-paradise), install the Unity web plugin and see for your self.@Michael - appreciate your sarcasm :) it also makes coffee ;) on a serious note, you are definitely biased and it's fine. I did not say Torque did not have a debugger, I said "Torque does not have a decent script debugger", and it's my opinion, which may look incorrect to Torsion or Codeweaver users. I feel like the conversation goes into a flame mode, so I'm going to stop posting - I said what I wanted to say for people to judge.
#36
Always? Really? (That one is sarcasm, btw)
02/05/2009 (5:55 pm)
@Alexander - It's a bit weak to post guff and then when it's opposed in a perfectly reasonably manner you rebuke it as sarcasm, bias and flame. If you can't back your claims up under minimal scrutiny then you're not doing Unity any favours.Quote:FYI, Lua scripts are always debugged with console
Always? Really? (That one is sarcasm, btw)
#37
Having switched to Unity upon giving up on Director for web 3D (nothing new was coming in 2006!) we looked at Torque and Unity and chose the toolset as being the deciding factor - ie. the scene editor, as it seemed on the face of it easier to get into - now i'm looking at this from an educational context, but the more i've got into Unity the more I can't see what more I could need, i'm sure once I get into heavier projects as my work with Unity continues i'll perhaps see pitfalls but currently its an excellent platform improving daily.
I'm also part of the beta program and have experience of the Windows version (im a pc, see) and have found it to be seamless and identical to the mac version - so the earlier post about wanting to use it on its native platform is a little moot in my experience. Now I have no experience in working with large teams but on small projects and in inspiring young people to get into game production Unity is a big winner. Also worth mentioning that i'm always only a quick chat away from the developers and am able to quiz them at any time and get very quick help on bugs, coding issues and any other problems i've had.
Those interested in the Windows version, its currently deadlined to coincide with GDC, failing that around April. Oh and the Unity community are a great bunch, but again, no experience with TGE community, so im not drawing a comparison here. Also the comment earlier about 'Unity is so strict you cant even get a windows demo' is a bit stupid - sorry thats the only comment I find fault with on here - its only in beta! why would they release an incomplete demo? do your research! no offence :P
Cheers guys
Will
ps. if anyone wants to look at the Unity interface I have several video tutorials on my site learnmesilly.com - nb. they're real beginners stuff.
02/08/2009 (2:27 pm)
Hi all, just wanted to throw my two cents into the pro Unity side of things for what its worth. I've been working with Unity for close to 3 years now, both teaching at degree level and freelancing commercial projects here and there.Having switched to Unity upon giving up on Director for web 3D (nothing new was coming in 2006!) we looked at Torque and Unity and chose the toolset as being the deciding factor - ie. the scene editor, as it seemed on the face of it easier to get into - now i'm looking at this from an educational context, but the more i've got into Unity the more I can't see what more I could need, i'm sure once I get into heavier projects as my work with Unity continues i'll perhaps see pitfalls but currently its an excellent platform improving daily.
I'm also part of the beta program and have experience of the Windows version (im a pc, see) and have found it to be seamless and identical to the mac version - so the earlier post about wanting to use it on its native platform is a little moot in my experience. Now I have no experience in working with large teams but on small projects and in inspiring young people to get into game production Unity is a big winner. Also worth mentioning that i'm always only a quick chat away from the developers and am able to quiz them at any time and get very quick help on bugs, coding issues and any other problems i've had.
Those interested in the Windows version, its currently deadlined to coincide with GDC, failing that around April. Oh and the Unity community are a great bunch, but again, no experience with TGE community, so im not drawing a comparison here. Also the comment earlier about 'Unity is so strict you cant even get a windows demo' is a bit stupid - sorry thats the only comment I find fault with on here - its only in beta! why would they release an incomplete demo? do your research! no offence :P
Cheers guys
Will
ps. if anyone wants to look at the Unity interface I have several video tutorials on my site learnmesilly.com - nb. they're real beginners stuff.
#39
Amen brother. I did that several times some time ago effectively dumping most of my frustrations out onto Stephen Zepp unfortunately. Sad bit of posts on my part.
Anyway, Nice post Will. As far as source issues go, the difference between the two is with Unity there is a wall between you and the code, and with TGEA, the only wall that exists is where a person's skill level/knowledge ends. Whether this is an issue for a developer concerning Unity would be based on the scale of a person's project and/or desire. The only other things I could say about Unity that could be construed as negative would be in reference to the licenses and price structure. Beyond those things, I think Unity is fairly spectacular, and with 2.5, I will be acquiring yet another engine license.
Discussing price is inappropriate since we do not yet know what T3D will cost, nor do we know if GG will alter the current license structure.
02/08/2009 (3:39 pm)
Quote:Shouldn't post after seeing bills from ex-wife...sorry..
Amen brother. I did that several times some time ago effectively dumping most of my frustrations out onto Stephen Zepp unfortunately. Sad bit of posts on my part.
Anyway, Nice post Will. As far as source issues go, the difference between the two is with Unity there is a wall between you and the code, and with TGEA, the only wall that exists is where a person's skill level/knowledge ends. Whether this is an issue for a developer concerning Unity would be based on the scale of a person's project and/or desire. The only other things I could say about Unity that could be construed as negative would be in reference to the licenses and price structure. Beyond those things, I think Unity is fairly spectacular, and with 2.5, I will be acquiring yet another engine license.
Discussing price is inappropriate since we do not yet know what T3D will cost, nor do we know if GG will alter the current license structure.
#40
Can't resist adding to this thread...
Well, we've just released our first game on TGEA, Buccaneer - The Pursuit of Infamy....Took us 2 years, but we went completely off piste with what we wanted to do, so we 100% needed the facility to dig into the source etc.
I've been looking at Unity over the last 6 months too, just out of interest more than anything, and other than not being able to release on XBLA or PSN ( not that we have anyhow ) it looks just great to me...
Well, I guess it'll be survival of the fittest, or the most suited to the particular studio... a bit of competition is always a good thing though, no doubt it'll make both engines all the better...
Harv
02/19/2009 (9:49 am)
Hi All,Can't resist adding to this thread...
Well, we've just released our first game on TGEA, Buccaneer - The Pursuit of Infamy....Took us 2 years, but we went completely off piste with what we wanted to do, so we 100% needed the facility to dig into the source etc.
I've been looking at Unity over the last 6 months too, just out of interest more than anything, and other than not being able to release on XBLA or PSN ( not that we have anyhow ) it looks just great to me...
Well, I guess it'll be survival of the fittest, or the most suited to the particular studio... a bit of competition is always a good thing though, no doubt it'll make both engines all the better...
Harv
Staples
Some good points there. C4's licensing is kind of unusual, but it really benefits the developer. Plus free updates for life is perfect for indie.
Unities license is the worst. You will see some of my posts on the unity forums, I explain the issues with the indie license. If you have money to spend on Pro and the asset server then you can compare the engines on a more level playing field. Not the case for alot of indies though.
Unity is obviously more of a different beast since you don't have the source, but TGEA can be compared to C4 more closely.
PS3/Xbox isn't an issue for us - but C4 has plans to publish to XBOX as well, but definitely not the Wii (the hardware would be insufficient).