Maps made Randomly And Two Simultaneous Cameras
by Marco Leon · in Torque Game Engine · 12/04/2002 (2:26 pm) · 6 replies
Hello all B)
First a brief intro for my first post ever in the Torque World: like most of you, am just a guy who thinks he has good game ideas, and loves creating as much as playing. I have been bitten by the "make/tweak a videogame" bug for the second time in my life (the first time, I did mods for Duke Nukem 3D and Quake, lol, was that 96? 97? CPUDuke, turned the plain alien soldiers into "DukeBots" to simulate a multiplayer game, and InvisDuke made you invisible during network play.. lol.. Santa didnt get me anything that year.. hehe B) erm.. anyway..), I am at the point right now where I narrowed it down between Torque and Q, from qubesoft.com
Perhaps, my background goal is to decide if I should use Q or Torque, but I thought I'd try a question here first.
For the game I have in mind, I would love to have randomly generated maps. What I mean by this is the following: instead of having a mapper guy create the static level in some map editor, (you know.. chooses to put this room here, that room there, some staircases over there, etc), the mapper instead works with a set of randomnization rules (I hope I spelled that right. Am not a native english speaker B/) . The Randomnization Rules, are like levers, where he sets how frequently does he expects staircases to appear.. whats the size of the average room, how many walls the average room has, .. the tileset for the level (from a range of tile sets like.. City, Town, Cave.. etc).. and a bunch more of -guidelines-, but not any actual set, definite level structure. Lets say these guidelines are then stored in XML or something. I dont know. Something. And then when the game "loads" the level, in reality is not loading anything, as much as its taking bits and pieces from an object library, and randomly throwing them together (well, as randomly as the Randomnization Rules were set to be by the mapper, and perhaps some more basic fixed rules, like "thou shall not put a second level without at least one staircase on it" or "thou shall not make a room with no doors", etc. So, .. with some intelligent rules system.. we would get a random level. Pff! after that textbook of an intro, my question is: Can Torque Handle This? Can Torque possibly do dynamically generated levels, at loading time?
My second question, to the relief of you all, is quite smaller: I want to have the top 33% of the screen be a First Person view, and the bottom 67% of the screen be a Third Person view. Can Torque have Two Simultaneous Cameras at once?
If you are still reading and feel like answering, you have earned my entire respect for being so nice to a newbie, and get to see my last question: Why would you choose Torque over Q?
Very Grateful, and looking forward joining your great Community:
Marco
P.S. I'll be checking this forums 2 times a day B)
First a brief intro for my first post ever in the Torque World: like most of you, am just a guy who thinks he has good game ideas, and loves creating as much as playing. I have been bitten by the "make/tweak a videogame" bug for the second time in my life (the first time, I did mods for Duke Nukem 3D and Quake, lol, was that 96? 97? CPUDuke, turned the plain alien soldiers into "DukeBots" to simulate a multiplayer game, and InvisDuke made you invisible during network play.. lol.. Santa didnt get me anything that year.. hehe B) erm.. anyway..), I am at the point right now where I narrowed it down between Torque and Q, from qubesoft.com
Perhaps, my background goal is to decide if I should use Q or Torque, but I thought I'd try a question here first.
For the game I have in mind, I would love to have randomly generated maps. What I mean by this is the following: instead of having a mapper guy create the static level in some map editor, (you know.. chooses to put this room here, that room there, some staircases over there, etc), the mapper instead works with a set of randomnization rules (I hope I spelled that right. Am not a native english speaker B/) . The Randomnization Rules, are like levers, where he sets how frequently does he expects staircases to appear.. whats the size of the average room, how many walls the average room has, .. the tileset for the level (from a range of tile sets like.. City, Town, Cave.. etc).. and a bunch more of -guidelines-, but not any actual set, definite level structure. Lets say these guidelines are then stored in XML or something. I dont know. Something. And then when the game "loads" the level, in reality is not loading anything, as much as its taking bits and pieces from an object library, and randomly throwing them together (well, as randomly as the Randomnization Rules were set to be by the mapper, and perhaps some more basic fixed rules, like "thou shall not put a second level without at least one staircase on it" or "thou shall not make a room with no doors", etc. So, .. with some intelligent rules system.. we would get a random level. Pff! after that textbook of an intro, my question is: Can Torque Handle This? Can Torque possibly do dynamically generated levels, at loading time?
My second question, to the relief of you all, is quite smaller: I want to have the top 33% of the screen be a First Person view, and the bottom 67% of the screen be a Third Person view. Can Torque have Two Simultaneous Cameras at once?
If you are still reading and feel like answering, you have earned my entire respect for being so nice to a newbie, and get to see my last question: Why would you choose Torque over Q?
Very Grateful, and looking forward joining your great Community:
Marco
P.S. I'll be checking this forums 2 times a day B)
#2
www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=08-12-2002&forum=iotd&id=-1
Dunno if that really helps ya, though... ;)
12/06/2002 (5:32 am)
Mhm, the only group that has done *something* like that is MYRMIDION, maybe you should check out their stuff...www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=08-12-2002&forum=iotd&id=-1
Dunno if that really helps ya, though... ;)
#3
In the last days, I've been thinking, that perhaps it would be best to up a little the abstraction level of the randomnization thing, and instead of dealing with the number of walls, or doors.. with tile sets being just groups of textures, perhaps the sets should be composed instead of modular rooms, nicely designed with proper furniture, doors, etc, and just semi-randomly thrown together to compose the insides of buildings. Then again, the buildings could themselves be of semi random size and semi random location on semi random streets. I simply love the concept of never playing the same level twice, and always exploring. I know this idea wouldnt be a good thing for certain types of games, but the game I have in mind.. a survival-horror kind of thing.. would be just as well B)
Thanks a lot for the link, I'll be checking out their site some more B)
12/06/2002 (5:50 am)
It helps! Thanks a lot! Wow, I shouldnt be surprised someone else thought of it before, and am actually glad it can be done! B) In the last days, I've been thinking, that perhaps it would be best to up a little the abstraction level of the randomnization thing, and instead of dealing with the number of walls, or doors.. with tile sets being just groups of textures, perhaps the sets should be composed instead of modular rooms, nicely designed with proper furniture, doors, etc, and just semi-randomly thrown together to compose the insides of buildings. Then again, the buildings could themselves be of semi random size and semi random location on semi random streets. I simply love the concept of never playing the same level twice, and always exploring. I know this idea wouldnt be a good thing for certain types of games, but the game I have in mind.. a survival-horror kind of thing.. would be just as well B)
Thanks a lot for the link, I'll be checking out their site some more B)
#4
I promise, am not trying to be pushy, but just wondering... can anyone else answer anything else for the questions above? I noticed that 21-6 game can randomize enemies, and items (thats what it seemed to me), but I was wondering more along the lines of actual buildings. "Dynamic buildings" if you will, or "Dynamic maps". Also, has anyone tried the two cameras at the same time thing, 1st and 3rd person? Probably it would half the framerate, right? But is it possible? And finally, any thoughts on Q?
Thanks again to any and all who answer.
12/09/2002 (7:54 am)
Hey guys B) I promise, am not trying to be pushy, but just wondering... can anyone else answer anything else for the questions above? I noticed that 21-6 game can randomize enemies, and items (thats what it seemed to me), but I was wondering more along the lines of actual buildings. "Dynamic buildings" if you will, or "Dynamic maps". Also, has anyone tried the two cameras at the same time thing, 1st and 3rd person? Probably it would half the framerate, right? But is it possible? And finally, any thoughts on Q?
Thanks again to any and all who answer.
#5
Random buildings etc. are something you're going to have to think about yourself. There's some fairly solid code floating around to insert multiple objects etc. So if you're looking at random distribution of lots objects that's covered. But building your own objects up will be harder, and complex objects will affect the framerate.
If they're fairly simple objects built of some larger blocks then this could be handled in torque script without mods to the engine.
12/09/2002 (11:36 am)
There's already a resource for the multi camera thing floating around. It's not exactly fantastic for the frame rate but if you build your levels well you could minimise framerate hit.Random buildings etc. are something you're going to have to think about yourself. There's some fairly solid code floating around to insert multiple objects etc. So if you're looking at random distribution of lots objects that's covered. But building your own objects up will be harder, and complex objects will affect the framerate.
If they're fairly simple objects built of some larger blocks then this could be handled in torque script without mods to the engine.
#6
I hope it can be done.
Can you imagine? An infinite city. Streets and buildings are semi-randomly generated, so you can keep walking on and on, and never run out of things to explore. Say, when you are nearing the edge of the area currently on memory, the machine begins putting together the next area, and you walk into it seamlessly, on and on. A virtually infinite city level, without the infinite work of making it the normal way, that is, by design of a mapper guy.
Well, I'll dream on, and will try B)
12/09/2002 (11:53 am)
Thanks a lot man. I hope it can be done.
Can you imagine? An infinite city. Streets and buildings are semi-randomly generated, so you can keep walking on and on, and never run out of things to explore. Say, when you are nearing the edge of the area currently on memory, the machine begins putting together the next area, and you walk into it seamlessly, on and on. A virtually infinite city level, without the infinite work of making it the normal way, that is, by design of a mapper guy.
Well, I'll dream on, and will try B)
Torque Owner Marco Leon